Leaf e+ 62kWh

Mike9832

kceire wrote: »

First off, where are you getting diesel for 1.18! I paid 1.23 in Dublin City on Friday and that was the best around.

Also, a 535d is more economical that you’d think. It was more economical than my 530d, 525d and is on par with our 530d when drove in similar circumstances. So just go for it

We drove 2 F10’s London to hollyhead last Friday. The 520 was 35.5mpg and the 535 was 35.4. We were not hanging around as we had a boat to catch that we boarded 10 mins before sailing so we knew it was gona be a tight drive to make it. Those figures could be improved significantly if driven with a bit of care.

In Galway

Was surprised

All stations are around 1.20 , 1.24 in Limerick

One in Adare is 1.32, mad 😡

When it's close to 1.00 fuel cost becomes a non issue, will definitely go EV next regardless.

535D type performance is the dream, Model 3 is basically that give or take.

Must drive a 330/530e, not far off 535D performance and 20km range on e mode, 1 year olds in the U.K all in for 25k is amazing too, same price as a 1 year old Leaf40

Loved the 200bhp power usability on the Kona

You've had some decent cars!

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

I put in diesel today @ 1.18l which was great, will get nearly 600km for 40e from my 15 year old car ( nearly 2 weeks driving)

An EV on day rate electricity @ 13c im currently paying would cost me 15e

Why do you keep quoting day rate electricity? Thats not the norm for the majority of EV drivers.

Mike9832 wrote: »

At 1.00 a litre it would be a hard sell to go to an EV imo

Thats probably true, but in the real world that wont be happening though, will it!

Mike9832 wrote: »

I don't know why the yanks bother with them when they pay 50c a litre

Money is the big driver for most but there are other considerations as well... nicer drive, less maintenance and environment to name a few.

Its not all about 0-60 times, which seems to pre-occupy you.

I agree with the rest of your post. The manufacturers dont have the incentive to go all in, which is why they are delivering in small numbers which is why its currently a tiny percentage of the market. The demand is there if the cars were produced.

Deleted User wrote: »

Fix by allowing it to charge faster at a higher temp, we'll see how that goes in a few years.

Indeed.
However, from the test videos shown so far its not heating up that much (i.e. beyond 50ºC). You've mentioned yourself about the need for battery heating to allow higher charge speeds (see #coldgate for the Kona!), so heat per se is not always a bad thing. Its about not letting it overheat.
Tesla, I believe, work in the 35ºC-45ºC range and that seems to be where the L40 is now working. Beyond 45ºC the old throttling kicks in so I think that Nissan were just super conservative (a Japanese thing I'd say) and have "loosened" it up a bit.

But you are right, we need to see if it has an effect on degradation or not. If there is degradation its more likely to be just normal degradation for the AESC battery than anything to do with this fix. Sure we have degradation on the old model and it never over heated so I think the L40 will be fine.

Deleted User wrote: »

You get a lot more for your 5 K, would I be tempted ? well if I had the choice it would be absolutely the 62 Kwh I would get.

If you came to the conclusion that you would need a rapid charge in an L40 5 times a year... would you then spend €5k more for the L62?

Thats my point... its alot of extra money if its not something you are utilising. Thats going to be a decision only each owner can make. If you are, say, travelling home every weekend to your folks then it would be worth it. If its for less than a handful of trips a year I think €5k+ is alot for that convenience.

Deleted User wrote: »

The point being is the 5 K saving worth spending anything up to 2 hrs waiting for a charge ? you pull up to a charger, there's a leaf charging, will take 45 mins, you have to charge, will take up to 45 mins, or there could be two people waiting and one charging already, no thanks, this is what tempted me to the Rex and the 60 Kwh could provide the ability to get someone home with the extra 20 Kwh, in my opinion it's a no brainer.

All valid but hopefully thats just a short term issue until eCars and Ionity get their house in order.... alot of that might even be addressed by the time we see L62's on Irish roads since planning permissions have been granted

Mike9832

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

I agree but am coming at this from C02 side, where we need to see ICE sales plummit to match our commitments.China is more serious in this regard due to air pollution issues as well.

The EU is pushing well, but countries like Ireland are laggards. Best example is Netherlands. Similar size and economy, much higher population. 6% market share and massive jump in December.

Agree

If the EU want us in EVs they need to push this hard

Not just on government side either, a 10k subsidy is more than enough

They need to target manufacturers, cause they are taking the piss

A Leaf62 should not cost nearly 50k

Battery price excuse is gone, they are nearly €100kWh, not 1,000kWh like 10 years ago

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

you pull up to a charger, there's a leaf charging, will take 45 mins

Or two hours. And if the owner is not with their car, you won't know until they come back. No thanks to that!

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Indeed.
However, from the test videos shown so far its not heating up that much (i.e. beyond 50ºC). You've mentioned yourself about the need for battery heating to allow higher charge speeds (see #coldgate for the Kona!), so heat per se is not always a bad thing. Its about not letting it overheat.
Tesla, I believe, work in the 35ºC-45ºC range and that seems to be where the L40 is now working. Beyond 45ºC the old throttling kicks in so I think that Nissan were just super conservative (a Japanese thing I'd say) and have "loosened" it up a bit.

But you are right, we need to see if it has an effect on degradation or not. If there is degradation its more likely to be just normal degradation for the AESC battery than anything to do with this fix. Sure we have degradation on the old model and it never over heated so I think the L40 will be fine.

When I was talking about the need for a warm battery to allow full charging speed I wasn't talking anything near 50 Deg C, I was talking around 20 Deg C !

Normal degradation ? there's a reason other manufacturers choose some form of battery cooling.

Define normal degradation ? Normal for a Nissan perhaps !

KCross wrote: »

If you came to the conclusion that you would need a rapid charge in an L40 5 times a year... would you then spend €5k more for the L62?


Thats my point... its alot of extra money if its not something you are utilising. Thats going to be a decision only each owner can make. If you are, say, travelling home every weekend to your folks then it would be worth it. If its for less than a handful of trips a year I think €5k+ is alot for that convenience.


All valid but hopefully thats just a short term issue until eCars and Ionity get their house in order.... alot of that might even be addressed by the time we see L62's on Irish roads since planning permissions have been granted

There are a lot of people who would not pay for it and there are many who won't be able to stretch the budget but as I said with the 60 Kwh you're getting 214 Hp v 150 Hp 30 Kw faster charging with 50 Kw for maybe the first few mins which will make a big difference + you get about 100-130 more Kms from the start + hopefully much faster AC charging so it's a lot of car for the money.

a 184 Hp 2.0L TDI DSG Golf would cost about 42 K then add a decent spec I know what I'd rather, the Golf would be a far nicer car to sit in and probably drive but still the Leaf 60 is a lot of car for the money with a lot of power.

The charger situation is diabolical in Ireland and we're so far behind now that it will take a few years to catch up so in the meantime would someone rather the risk of some very long wait times at chargers ? would they be happy with slower charging ? sure, the power is something a lot of people can live without.

As I said I did not get the Rex because I like paying more money I got it because it's a go anywhere any time car that is completely independent of the charging network should I choose not to endure queues or broken chargers and I got it because there was nothing better for "me" at the time I had to get rid of the Leaf.

Yes for many the 40 Kwh will be fine but when it's time to change I am not getting a 40 Kwh i3 that still charges at 50 Kw if it could charge at 100 Kw and there were a lot more chargers I'd definitely consider it.

The issue is that most people don't want a low range car and in most people's minds a car with a range of 200-230 Kms that takes 45 mins to charge is just too much of a compromise then the state of the network is just not good enough now a car with 350-400 Kms that can get a lot more range + charge a lot faster is a lot more tempting to the majority and not a minority of EV fans.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Or two hours. And if the owner is not with their car, you won't know until they come back. No thanks to that!

Hopefully Paid charging puts an end to that though no matter what the ESb do there's be a lot of people complaining mainly those who want to abuse the network.

Whatever the ESB propose it's not going to keep everyone happy but they need to get the finger out because people also won't want to pay to queue but hopefully the end to free charging solves a lot of issues like abandoning cares to go shopping it was a mad idea to begin with.

Free charging didn't encourage many people to EV in the first place and it only got people hooked on it because it's free and those people won't like to see that privilege removed I can tell you !

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

I put in diesel today @ 1.18l which was great, will get nearly 600km for 40e from my 15 year old car ( nearly 2 weeks driving)

An EV on day rate electricity @ 13c im currently paying would cost me 15e

At 1.00 a litre it would be a hard sell to go to an EV imo

I don't know why the yanks bother with them when they pay 50c a litre

I'd be driving a 535D if we had 50c a litre

You could do 600 Kms in EV for 8 Euro's or less at my current night rate cost of 7.4C per Kwh inc VAT and needing 114 Kwh for to drive 600 Kms at about 19 Kwh/100 Kms

Some maths.

for 30,000 Kms a year I would need based on about 19 Kwh/100 Kms needing 5,703 Kwh at 7.4 C/Kwh costing 422 Euro's.

AC charging is free and will be free for the foreseeable so people should take advantage of AC which greatly limits the need for hanging around at fast chargers.

My work commute iof 142 Kms is mostly free except when I put the boot down and might need a charge at home for an hour or two max so it costs me much less than 400 A year but some of that 30,000 Kms is using petrol in the Rex but still noting really. 8 litres of petrol every 3 odd months or less for the sake of not having to hanging around at fast chargers ? Grand !

Some people will have to top up during the day sometimes but as batteries get much larger that will become more and more unlikely as the majority of drivers are not going to buy electric cars with less than 60 Kwh.

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

AC charging is free and will be free for the foreseeable.

Only for 1 year more according to eCars. DC charging to be billed starting this year and AC charging next year.

Mike9832

Deleted User wrote: »

You could do 600 Kms in EV for 8 Euro's or less at my current night rate cost of 7.4C per Kwh inc VAT and needing 114 Kwh for to drive 600 Kms at about 19 Kwh/100 Kms

Some maths.

for 30,000 Kms a year I would need based on about 19 Kwh/100 Kms needing 5,703 Kwh at 7.4 C/Kwh costing 422 Euro's.

Some people will have to top up during the day sometimes but as batteries get much larger that will become more and more unlikely as the majority of drivers are not going to buy electric cars with less than 60 Kwh.

For sure

It's way cheaper, especially on night rate like you've shown here, it's ridiculously cheap then

Even if it's 1.00 a liter for diesel/petrol, no comparison

At 1.00 is it worth spending almost 40k after incentives for a leaf62?

When majority are doing 300km a week ( about 25-30e a week in diesel )

You do big mileage?

Agree 60kWh like the Kona is the standard, it's perfect,99% of drivers don't need better.

Prices need to come way down is my point basically

VW are saying they are going to do this, interesting times

Soarer

Christ on a bike.

There's finally a Leaf that stops people mentioning the Ioniq at the every possible opportunity, and it's been replaced with fukking diesel talk.

Bring back the Ioniq mafia!

Mike9832

DrPhilG wrote: »

Only for 1 year more according to eCars. DC charging to be billed starting this year and AC charging next year.

Nice

Finally

Mike9832

Soarer wrote: »

Christ on a bike.

There's finally a Leaf that stops people mentioning the Ioniq at the every possible opportunity, and it's been replaced with fukking diesel talk.

Bring back the Ioniq mafia!

Haha

I'll stop now lol

On Ioniq

Actually saw on a german forum that the long range is going to be at the Geneva motor show in March, not 39kWh either, will be a bit bigger

Anyone else hear that?

Must find the quote

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

For sure

It's way cheaper, especially on night rate like you've shown here, it's ridiculously cheap then

Even if it's 1.00 a liter for diesel/petrol, no comparison

At 1.00 is it worth spending almost 40k after incentives for a leaf62?

When majority are doing 300km a week ( about 25-30e a week in diesel )

You do big mileage?

Agree 60kWh like the Kona is the standard, it's perfect,99% of drivers don't need better.

Prices need to come way down is my point basically

VW are saying they are going to do this, interesting times

1 euro a litre you mean ? you can't buy petrol/diesel at that cost and petrol and diesel will only ev er go up as well as tax and vrt , it will too eventually on EV but I'm enjoying the cheap tax the last 4 years.

I do roughly 30,000 kms a year though a bit more now as I can take the Rex anywhere I want unlike the 24 Kwh Leaf.

You're not really comparing apples and oranges you're comparing an old ice v new EV.

If buying new Diesel then EV makes perfect sense right now whether someone chooses to pay 40 od K for a leaf remains to be seen I expect sales to be still very low in Ireland especially compared to the likes of the Quasqai unless cost can be brought down to 30-35K.

People are all too willing to shell out 50-100 odd a week in fuel, because it doesn't come in a bill at the end of the month they easily forget about it but an ev has potential to save 5-6 K on fuel over 3 years if doing higher mileage, those spending 30-40 a week on diesel will easily pay this over 5-10 K more than on a car that costs feck all to run.

But getting back to the 40 K Leaf, you get a lot of car for the money with faster charging and much longer range + 214 Hp. But Nissan should offer a more basic version with the Usual Paddy 100 Hp and stripped of kit to save maybe 5-6K but to be honest the savings on less power would be 0 for nissan so why bother , the motor would still cost the same to them with the same electronics.

Shefwedfan

Any chance this thread could be kept to a Leaf thread and not the same posts from Thierry/mike that is on every single thread in this forum

If you are wondering what the questions and answers are to the above look on the Ioniq/Kona/VW and Other Leaf threads

Same discussion, same points, nothing new!

Zenith74

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Any chance this thread could be kept to a Leaf thread and not the same posts from Thierry/mike that is on every single thread in this forum

If you are wondering what the questions and answers are to the above look on the Ioniq/Kona/VW and Other Leaf threads

Same discussion, same points, nothing new!

In fairness it's far from just Mike, sure there are even moderators involved in it! What chance does the thread have .

Gumbo

Zenith74 wrote: »

In fairness it's far from just Mike, sure there are even moderators involved in it! What chance does the thread have .

Will you ever give over.
It was 2 posts in an EV thread by EV owners. There was no EV mods involved so get a grip.

Surely people are mature enough to be able to ask an off topic question in the heat of the moment as that subject was mentioned. It be different if the thread was dragged off on a tangent or retrained by said comments.

I won’t say anymore on it as that may constitute thread derailment other than your posts complaining about the talk actually added more off topic posts than ours.

Report the posts if there’s an issue.

Thank you and good day.

rolion

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Any chance this thread could be kept to a Leaf thread

If you are wondering what the questions and answers are to the above look on the Ioniq/Kona/VW and Other Leaf threads

Same discussion, same points, nothing new!

It looks like here are few salesman / tradesmen / companies involved that are trying to swing the mood of potential buyers by posting interesting contradictory posts.
Most of the "users" doesnt give a flick about all those new terms and so on...just want to use the car and drive it.
I stopped reading EV forum as it getting too much like a specialised magazine rather than feedback and impressions/ recomendations from real users.When you say something is like you cut the salesman' comission for that day...

And the mods...well, as long as the site bring visitors and lots of trackers happy saving cookies on your computer or phone... keep the conversation as long as the battery range...

Zenith74

kceire wrote: »

Will you ever give over.
It was 2 posts in an EV thread by EV owners. There was no EV mods involved so get a grip.

Surely people are mature enough to be able to ask an off topic question in the heat of the moment as that subject was mentioned. It be different if the thread was dragged off on a tangent or retrained by said comments.

I won’t say anymore on it as that may constitute thread derailment other than your posts complaining about the talk actually added more off topic posts than ours.

Report the posts if there’s an issue.

Thank you and good day.

Fair enough, I was being a bit of a dick there, my bad.

samih

Back to the topic, i.e. L40 (sorry just messing). I didn't have a chance to do the high speed range test yet (that may or may not indicate whether the L62/+ will be able to 250 km at 120 km/h). The weekend was too stormy for proper results and it was also raining at times. Keeping an eye on the weather as I have tonight and tomorrow night to conduct the test weather permitting.

micks_address

Question for the leaf/i3 owners

Are they as 'solid' on the road as say an Octavia or Superb? I like the look of the i3 but it kinda of feels like it might be a lighter car on the road?

Do you get any hassle from larger cars? I find when driving my wife's honda jazz im regularly nearly run over on the m50... whereas people take you a bit more seriously with a larger car.

On the costs for fuel - i'm doing about 30k km per year and probably spending no average 1200 a year on diesel..

an i3 rex sounds like it would be ideal for me, as i drive the m50 every day and do the odd long journey to sligo/cork.. would it be a 'solid' family car and haul a load of luggage the same way my octavia does?

How much would by 30k km fuel be? There are 2 chargers at work so i could charge each day.. i'm guessing my biggest cost would be to actually change my car.. from a 1.5 year old octavia.. on 0% interest pcp.. so while i'd like to go ev for my next car i get the feeling it will cost me a lot less to stay with a octavia 2 litre diesel..

Apologies if this is an off topic post.

Deleted User wrote: »

1 euro a litre you mean ? you can't buy petrol/diesel at that cost and petrol and diesel will only ev er go up as well as tax and vrt , it will too eventually on EV but I'm enjoying the cheap tax the last 4 years.

I do roughly 30,000 kms a year though a bit more now as I can take the Rex anywhere I want unlike the 24 Kwh Leaf.

You're not really comparing apples and oranges you're comparing an old ice v new EV.

If buying new Diesel then EV makes perfect sense right now whether someone chooses to pay 40 od K for a leaf remains to be seen I expect sales to be still very low in Ireland especially compared to the likes of the Quasqai unless cost can be brought down to 30-35K.


People are all too willing to shell out 50-100 odd a week in fuel, because it doesn't come in a bill at the end of the month they easily forget about it but an ev has potential to save 5-6 K on fuel over 3 years if doing higher mileage, those spending 30-40 a week on diesel will easily pay this over 5-10 K more than on a car that costs feck all to run.

But getting back to the 40 K Leaf, you get a lot of car for the money with faster charging and much longer range + 214 Hp. But Nissan should offer a more basic version with the Usual Paddy 100 Hp and stripped of kit to save maybe 5-6K but to be honest the savings on less power would be 0 for nissan so why bother , the motor would still cost the same to them with the same electronics.

samih

If the L40 can going forward reliably charge at least twice in a row at 40 kW, personally I would not spend extra 5k on L62 as we have (which I have mentioned several times already) used rapid charging twice in the past 8k. The price of L40 at about 30 k is already pushing the price towards painful levels for this class of car. But depending on your usage patterns extra range may be worth the money, and then with same money you could get even more range and space by buying a Niro 64 kWh.

I would be prepared pay 2-3k extra for the extra range and probably higher motorway speed capability, but definitely not 5.5k.

KCross

micks_address wrote: »

Question for the leaf/i3 owners

Are they as 'solid' on the road as say an Octavia or Superb? I like the look of the i3 but it kinda of feels like it might be a lighter car on the road?

How many in your family? The i3 is a 4 seater.

micks_address wrote: »

Do you get any hassle from larger cars? I find when driving my wife's honda jazz im regularly nearly run over on the m50... whereas people take you a bit more seriously with a larger car.

No issues with the Leaf for me.

micks_address wrote: »

an i3 rex sounds like it would be ideal for me, as i drive the m50 every day and do the odd long journey to sligo/cork.. would it be a 'solid' family car and haul a load of luggage the same way my octavia does?

EV's currently are not great for long distance unless you buy this new 62kWh Leaf. THe old generation have shorter range and will require en-route charging and our charging infrastructure is poor. You'd probably use your 2nd car for those Cork/Sligo trips and use a Leaf/i3 for commuting.

micks_address wrote: »

How much would by 30k km fuel be? There are 2 chargers at work so i could charge each day.. i'm guessing my biggest cost would be to actually change my car.. from a 1.5 year old octavia.. on 0% interest pcp.. so while i'd like to go ev for my next car i get the feeling it will cost me a lot less to stay with a octavia 2 litre diesel..

You'll be suffering alot of deprecition changing from a 1.5yr old Octavia! You definitely need to do the math on that.

Good rule of thumb... EV electricity costs will be about one fifth of your diesel cost for the same mileage. Its all down to what mpg you are currently getting and what EV you buy, but its in that ball park.

The fact you have work charging means you will save even more.

samih

LEAF all models feel a really solid to drive due to relatively heavy weight and low centre of gravity. I feel like on the older LEAFs you get bullied sometimes due to the "polarising" styling and earlier on other driver's view that it's a milk float but I haven't seen it at all recently. Not sure if it's because L40 blends in better or not.

If you opt for night time electricity at a good rate, 30k costs about 350-500 euro a year for electricity but as you said you can charge at work this brings the cost down somewhat.

Can't say anything about i3 as I have never even sat in one. They appear very nice btw. Some people here have owned both. Maybe start a new thread as this is the LEAF 62 e+ thread.

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Question for the leaf/i3 owners

Are they as 'solid' on the road as say an Octavia or Superb? I like the look of the i3 but it kinda of feels like it might be a lighter car on the road?

Do you get any hassle from larger cars? I find when driving my wife's honda jazz im regularly nearly run over on the m50... whereas people take you a bit more seriously with a larger car.

On the costs for fuel - i'm doing about 30k km per year and probably spending no average 1200 a year on diesel..

an i3 rex sounds like it would be ideal for me, as i drive the m50 every day and do the odd long journey to sligo/cork.. would it be a 'solid' family car and haul a load of luggage the same way my octavia does?

How much would by 30k km fuel be? There are 2 chargers at work so i could charge each day.. i'm guessing my biggest cost would be to actually change my car.. from a 1.5 year old octavia.. on 0% interest pcp.. so while i'd like to go ev for my next car i get the feeling it will cost me a lot less to stay with a octavia 2 litre diesel..

Apologies if this is an off topic post.

Leaf is solid on the road, it's a heavy beast and you can feel it.

i3 is a lot of fun on back roads, the suspension is a bit stiff on broken town surfaces but once up to speed on back roads it's a lot of fun, steering is a lot better and handling a lot better then Leaf 40 Kwh and it has tonnes more grip which makes it feel much much faster than the leaf on damp and wet surfaces. The Leaf can add significant time to the 0-60 and make pulling out of junctions a right pain in the hole.

i3 does feel light on the motorway at high speeds in stormy weather it can blow around quite a bit it, it doesn't bother me though because it's such fun on back roads and I'm not driving through high winds daily.

The S version has a stiffer suspension so maybe better handling again.

The 40 Kwh has better steering feeling than the 2011-2018 version but the i3 is a lot better.

Leaf isn't for sporty driving and is a normal work horse , the i3 begs you to put the boot down and will put a smile on your face.

The Rex is ideal for the drives you say, Sligo to Cork, it will go anywhere any time with charging or no charging on route as you choose.

Where it can't compete with the Octavia is space, not a hope.

Still , we manage a weekend away with two small boys and luggage/buggy no problem and I managed to take the outlaws to the Airport a few weeks ago with 1 large suitcase and 2 cabin bags in the boot it, it was tight but it worked but it certainly does not have the room of Octavia.

But you can fit more on the seats and floor if you don't need to carry anyone or let the seats down then you got some pretty decent space.

Go give one a test drive.


Oh and I certainly don't have any issues with larger cars, they are quite surprised sometimes when they can not out accelerate me or when they try over take me but can't when I put the boot down, yeah sometimes I have a bit of fun when there are the usual arseholes driving up my ass even driving at normal speeds. But up to 100 Km/h the i3 is a lot faster than a Leaf 40.

Anyway, for your Sligo to Cork trips a 60 Kwh Leaf or i3 Rex would be the job.

Leaf 60 should do about 290 Kms at 120 Km/h 21 Kwh/100 Km. or maybe 350-400 at older national route speeds 60-80-100 Km/h.

You would of course pick up a 33 Kwh Rex a lot cheaper.

Gile_na_gile

Was writing the other day about the manufactured constraint of BEVs, and the absence of advertising. Did a search for material and found the following:

https://eciu.net/blog/2018/electric-cars-whats-happened-to-the-ads
- short and easy to read, points to piece below

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-018-0152-x
- above is subscription only, but here is another link to same

Mike9832

Deleted User wrote: »

Leaf 60 should do about 290 Kms at 120 Km/h 21 Kwh/100 Km

Not a chance of that happening

Sure Kona with a bigger battery and alot more efficient can only go 300km at that speed

Using that method the Leaf40 should go 220km and we all know it's more like 150-170km

Maybe the Leaf62 will be more efficient at speed, will have to be some improvement to get 290km

Shefwedfan

Any sign of the eNV200 or whatever the 7 seater version is with 62kWh battery?

BigAl81

Seems like the Leaf 62kWh is old news already. Seems they have a Model S clone in the works...

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/1/14/18178878/nissan-ev-concept-ims-naias-2019

Shefwedfan

BigAl81 wrote: »

Seems like the Leaf 62kWh is old news already. Seems they have a Model S clone in the works...

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/1/14/18178878/nissan-ev-concept-ims-naias-2019

Better with qashqai version

Cars are not selling as much as suv

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Better with qashqai version

Cars are not selling as much as suv

You don't say :P