Leaf e+ 62kWh

KCross

KCross wrote: »

They've tweaked the software in the L62 to not give the full torque at 0 rpm. Max torque comes in at 500rpm.... not sure what speed that would be but obviously they've thought about wheel spin with the extra bhp on tap and pushed more of the torque to the higher speeds which is also welcome.

It wouldn't be that hard to add RWD , but 200 Hp would be really sweet if they can address the wheel spin.

KCross wrote: »

All existing Leaf's had a battery heater in cold climates so its reasonable to assume this one does too. Not sure a heater is required for our climate though. As you said, after a few hundred km's and 5mins at 45kW charging and the temp will be fine.

Yes they did but it only heated from -17 to about -10 to prevent damage to the electrolyte it wouldn't have any real impact on fast charging at that temp it would be awfully slow and even in an Irish Summer fast charging can be slow enough.

I did a test today in the i3, started with battery temp of 9 Deg C and it just hit 17 Deg C by the time I got to work 72 Kms later. 120 Km/h M9, M7 except at the M7 Roadworks and then about 110-115 Km/h on the N7 about 72 Kms. So almost at the sweet spot for fast charging.

KCross wrote: »

CHAdeMO 2 allows 100kW+ chargers. There are some in Norway I think. I doubt we'll see them here though.

The Leaf 60 must be ChaDeMo II then , I did not read anything to say for sure but it makes sense if it can charge at close to 100 Kw.

Nissan are real fools for keeping ChaDeMo outside of Japan.

It will be interesting to see if the new ESB chargers have ChaDeMo II or ChaDeMo at all.

Round Cable

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the new ESB chargers have ChaDeMo II or ChaDeMo at all.

With 75% of EVs in Ireland being ChaDeMo capatible, it would make little business sense for the ESB to exclude them when they introduce fees.

Additionally, going by Facebook reports, CCS seems to be way more flaky with current ESB chargers. ChaDeMo seems to be more reliable at the current time.

Round Cable

Round Cable wrote: »

With 75% of EVs in Ireland being ChaDeMo capatible, it would make little business sense for the ESB to exclude them when they introduce fees.

Additionally, going by Facebook reports, CCS seems to be way more flaky with current ESB chargers. ChaDeMo seems to be more reliable at the current time.

Yeah but that will change soon as it will only be Nissan with ChaDeMo and should chargers be more expensive for 1 car model ?

Round Cable

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah but that will change soon as it will only be Nissan with ChaDeMo and should chargers be more expensive for 1 car model ?

Undoubtedly, that share will decrease with the mass proliferation of other models. Particularly when Nissan with such an EV headstart has yet to release a second EV model. Look at Hyundai, they're barely in the game a wet week and they have 2 EVs and 1 plug in hybrid.

On adding ChaDeMo to a charger, the costs are pretty minimal, cable plus software for the protocol. Some of the Ionity chargers on the continent can be speced with both cables, but Ionity are a CCS group so they are hardly going to support a competing standard.

In fact Ionity's North American equivalent, Electrify America actually supports ChaDeMo, as part of the court mandated settlement of the VW emissions case. ChaDeMo is only in one stall, the other 5 are CCS only, and so VW have met the requirements to the letter!

It will be interesting to see if the ESB charge per Kwh or time.

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the ESB charge per Kwh or time.

Here's hoping it's a smart mix of the two. Wouldn't want all those eejits in e-Ups! (me) under utilising the rapid charge blocking the Ioniqs (again me) from getting my 70kW speeds.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Here's hoping it's a smart mix of the two. Wouldn't want all those eejits in e-Ups! (me) under utilising the rapid charge blocking the Ioniqs (again me) from getting my 70kW speeds.

Lol I think if you can connect to the charger and you're paying then I don't think anyone could say anything, at that rate then charging my i3 at 50 Kw would be frowned upon, though I wonder would it be much more expensive continuing on the Rex ?

A 40 Kwh Leaf charging at 25-30 Kw would be a pain though but probably more for them than anyone else lol.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/09/nissan-leaf-e-60kwh-battery-was-it-worth-the-wait/

After many delays and years of waiting that would flush Tesla’s cheeks in embarrassment, the 60kWh Nissan LEAF (“LEAF 2,” or “LEAF 3.ZERO” in the UK) is starting production. The planning is this month for Japan, sometime in the spring for North America, and during the summer for those waiting on the old continent and in the UK and Ireland.


Anyone see this already ?

Soarer

It's 62kWh.

ewj1978

So car coming in summer but no prices yet..

Zenith74

ewj1978 wrote: »

So car coming in summer but no prices yet..

From Nissan Press Release: “The LEAF 3.ZERO price starts at 39.900€, while the LEAF 3.ZERO e+ Limited Edition will be available for sale from 45.500€**.

Worth noting that both of these prices are for the Limited Edition (only 5000 being made for Europe, who knows if any will be RHD, but would be strange to leave out the UK given some are made there) versions of the L40/L62. So even that summer date may not be something to bank on, as the 'regular' edition is to come some time afterwards.

Shefwedfan

Zenith74 wrote: »

From Nissan Press Release: “The LEAF 3.ZERO price starts at 39.900€, while the LEAF 3.ZERO e+ Limited Edition will be available for sale from 45.500€**.

Worth noting that both of these prices are for the Limited Edition (only 5000 being made for Europe, who knows if any will be RHD, but would be strange to leave out the UK given some are made there) versions of the L40/L62. So even that summer date may not be something to bank on, as the 'regular' edition is to come some time afterwards.

It’s made in Sunderland, I would expect a RHD

KCross

ewj1978 wrote: »

So car coming in summer but no prices yet..

UK price of the limited edition 62kWh is known... its an eye watering £37,105 after grant!

We probably wont see the prices for the other trim levels until they sell their allocation of the limited editions.

Chewchewtrain

I don't suppose it would be worth cancelling an L40 deposit to hold out for this model?

The extra range is a nice peace of mind.

KCross

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

I don't suppose it would be worth cancelling an L40 deposit to hold out for this model?

The extra range is a nice peace of mind.

It will be significantly more expensive so it depends on whether that peace of mind is worth that premium.... thats a personal decision.

You would also be waiting until the end of the year to get it.... Nissan are saying "summer" but no one who knows exactly. Are you willing to wait?

Gile_na_gile

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

I don't suppose it would be worth cancelling an L40 deposit to hold out for this model?

The extra range is a nice peace of mind.

It is tempting, but depends how soon you need it. I will collect an L40 next week as other car is gone. Waiting on SEAI approval...

My guess, like others have said, is that it will be available at 33k mark for equivalent of SV late autumn or winter.

I'll probably just upgrade in 2-3 years to whatever 60-80kwh is going then, maybe looking to (tiny) secondhand market or UK import

Chewchewtrain

KCross wrote: »

It will be significantly more expensive so it depends on whether that peace of mind is worth that premium.... thats a personal decision.

You would also be waiting until the end of the year to get it.... Nissan are saying "summer" but no one who knows exactly. Are you willing to wait?

Yeah, I would pay an extra 5k maybe for the range, but I don't want a car that'll be instantly devalued by a newer model. The electric car industry seems to be evolving rapidly at the moment, so it is probably inevitable.

I don't think I'd wait until the end of the year though. No, definitely not.

KCross

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

Yeah, I would pay an extra 5k maybe for the range, but I don't want a car that'll be instantly devalued by a newer model. The electric car industry seems to be evolving rapidly at the moment, so it is probably inevitable.

That hasn’t been an issue so far.
e.g The L62 comes out but it’s more expensive so L40 should depreciate as normal.

And once your car is 5yrs+ the depreciation slows down anyway so new models have less of an impact at that point.

Soarer

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

I don't suppose it would be worth cancelling an L40 deposit to hold out for this model?

The extra range is a nice peace of mind.

Keep your money, get the software updated before you collect it to remove the worry of #rapidgate, and you're laughing.

Chewchewtrain

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

I don't suppose it would be worth cancelling an L40 deposit to hold out for this model?

The extra range is a nice peace of mind.

Chewchewtrain wrote: »

Yeah, I would pay an extra 5k maybe for the range, but I don't want a car that'll be instantly devalued by a newer model. The electric car industry seems to be evolving rapidly at the moment, so it is probably inevitable.

I don't think I'd wait until the end of the year though. No, definitely not.

Then I would certainly wait, absolutely, the extra range and faster charging will absolutely make that 5 K worth it.

The faster charging would depend on whether the ESB intend to support the faster ChaDeMo standard but I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Potential for slow charging on a hot battery with the 40 Kwh V probably a lot less with the 62 Kwh considering it's a much larger battery with fan cooling.

I would expect the value of the 40 Kwh to drop like a stone.

This is all my personal opinions though but I would not buy 40 Kwh with the current appalling network risked with a big slow down in charging with a hot battery and by the time you get the Leaf some new chargers might be installed.

Even if you do have to use the 45 Kw chargers it should still charge a lot faster than the 40 Kwh leaf with a hot battery.

An extra 20 odd Kwh is far better to have than want , more independence from the public charging infrastructure + there were also rumors it would have much faster AC charging but I have not seen anything recently.

But the extra range of the 62 Kwh V 214 Hp ? faster charging, less risk of throttling at the fast charger damn right I'd wait !

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The faster charging would depend on whether the ESB intend to support the faster ChaDeMo standard but I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Cost!
Good chance eCars wont install CHAdeMO 2 units but stick with 50kW units instead.

Deleted User wrote: »

Potential for slow charging on a hot battery with the 40 Kwh V probably a lot less with the 62 Kwh considering it's a much larger battery with fan cooling.

You do know there is a fix out for that? All new L40's coming off the line since late last year dont have the issue.

Deleted User wrote: »

I would expect the value of the 40 Kwh to drop like a stone.

With a €5k+ difference in price between and L40 and an L62 I cant see the L62 affecting L40 residuals at all.

Deleted User wrote: »

An extra 20 odd Kwh is far better to have than want , more independence from the public charging infrastructure + there were also rumors it would have much faster AC charging but I have not seen anything recently.

But the extra range of the 62 Kwh V 214 Hp ? faster charging,...

That I can agree with, but it has to be balanced with the price difference... €5k+ on top of what is already an expensive L40 is alot of dosh for a Leaf.


I think Chewchew needs to look at how often they would go beyond the range of an L40 and then decide if the extra money is worth some inconvenience for those trips. Sure, we could all just say buy a Tesla P100D and you'd have no issues with network or range then but the price is the issue.... same here really.... probably the guts of €38k for an L62 is serious money.

slave1

Don’t think we’ll see prices dropping like a stone, the L30 didn’t when the L40 came out

Gile_na_gile

Yes, the L30 sells well, having gone up in price over the last year from 16-17k to 18-20k. It is all to do with the carefully managed supply from the motor companies, which maintain scarcity and a market for their ICEs and hybrids.


The LEAF is the only car that has been mass-produced and marketed, other than the native EV Tesla in the States. Yet even then, there are waiting times for a new model a lot of the time. How many ads do we see on the television for EVs? How many radio adverts, billboards? Very little. Instead we have a vibrant market for enthusiasts, always hanging on the next 'big change' such as the VW offering, and a slow rate of conversion.


There would have to be a more punitive system of carbon taxes combined with mass marketing to generate sales and supply chains, as well as downward pressure on prices. One positive change, however, is seeing and meeting the taxi drivers in their L40s. A lot of people will talk to them about their EVs and fuel efficiency, without the environmental aspect about which most people couldn't give a ****, unfortunately.


Of course, EVs are not good enough yet for all jobs and needs, but you need only look at the number of ICE second cars around where I am in Kildare to see an untapped market of people who would actually save money with an L24/L30/L40/eUP!/Ioniq etc.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Cost!
Good chance eCars wont install CHAdeMO 2 units but stick with 50kW units instead.

Who knows, guess we'll find out when they start installing chargers again later in the year.

KCross wrote: »

Cost!You do know there is a fix out for that? All new L40's coming off the line since late last year dont have the issue.

Fix by allowing it to charge faster at a higher temp, we'll see how that goes in a few years.

KCross wrote: »

Cost!With a €5k+ difference in price between and L40 and an L62 I cant see the L62 affecting L40 residuals at all.

As I said, better to have it than want it, if the L40 could charge at 100 Kw I'd say yeah sure, you could easily live with 40 Kwh with faster charging and a lot more chargers but that's not the reality.

I didn't choose to pay more for the Rex for no reason, driving past charger queues and broken chargers makes it worth the money for sure.

Having an extra 20 Odd Kwh is a bit like the Rex, it would allow someone to travel 100-130 Kms further on a charge and it would take a few trips in a 40 Kwh and experience a coupld of queuing sessions and then having to charge to realise saving 5K was a big mistake.

Rex means I do not have to slow down, 60 Kwh also means many trips at faster speeds are possible.

KCross wrote: »

Cost!That I can agree with, but it has to be balanced with the price difference... €5k+ on top of what is already an expensive L40 is alot of dosh for a Leaf.

Expensive but remember this, a DSG TDI Golf with 170 HP with a decent spec is over 40K.

A 114 Hp Leaf is going to be a hoot to drive, handling and steering aside it's going to be a great car for someone who likes to have a bit of fun and it's great to finally see a EV company realise that there's no need to offer the low power that ICE's had for decades because electricity is so much cheaper to drive.

You get a lot more for your 5 K, would I be tempted ? well if I had the choice it would be absolutely the 62 Kwh I would get.

I just hope they work on the ridiculous wheel spin that the L40 suffers that would be enough to put me off the L40, just the wheel spin alone, it was an instant turn off but for regular motorway commuting it has decent poke and wheel spin isn't as much of an issue but something I could not live with.

KCross wrote: »

Cost!I think Chewchew needs to look at how often they would go beyond the range of an L40 and then decide if the extra money is worth some inconvenience for those trips. Sure, we could all just say buy a Tesla P100D and you'd have no issues with network or range then but the price is the issue.... same here really.... probably the guts of €38k for an L62 is serious money.

The point being is the 5 K saving worth spending anything up to 2 hrs waiting for a charge ? you pull up to a charger, there's a leaf charging, will take 45 mins, you have to charge, will take up to 45 mins, or there could be two people waiting and one charging already, no thanks, this is what tempted me to the Rex and the 60 Kwh could provide the ability to get someone home with the extra 20 Kwh, in my opinion it's a no brainer.

It would be a shame if the Leaf 62 was never to avail of the faster charging in Ireland but if it has faster AC then this will make it all the more worth it.

Stealthirl

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be a shame if the Leaf 62 was never to avail of the faster charging in Ireland but if it has faster AC then this will make it all the more worth it.

I thought i seen 11 or 22KW AC mentioned a few places That would be fantastic if standard but i can see Nissan charging extra if they offer it ala 3.3 v 6.6kw

Stealthirl

Stealthirl wrote: »

I thought i seen 11 or 22KW AC mentioned a few places That would be fantastic if standard but i can see Nissan charging extra if they offer it ala 3.3 v 6.6kw

Yeah I think I saw mention of 22 Kw AC this would be great, roughly 3 hrs for a charge or 2 hrs 30 maybe from 10-90% with a 60 Kwh battery, pretty amazing.

AC at that speed has tremendous advantages I greatly appreciate having 11 Kw.

But I've not seen any recent mention of faster AC.

Mike9832

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Yes, the L30 sells well, having gone up in price over the last year from 16-17k to 18-20k. It is all to do with the carefully managed supply from the motor companies, which maintain scarcity and a market for their ICEs and hybrids.


The LEAF is the only car that has been mass-produced and marketed, other than the native EV Tesla in the States. Yet even then, there are waiting times for a new model a lot of the time. How many ads do we see on the television for EVs? How many radio adverts, billboards? Very little. Instead we have a vibrant market for enthusiasts, always hanging on the next 'big change' such as the VW offering, and a slow rate of conversion.


There would have to be a more punitive system of carbon taxes combined with mass marketing to generate sales and supply chains, as well as downward pressure on prices. One positive change, however, is seeing and meeting the taxi drivers in their L40s. A lot of people will talk to them about their EVs and fuel efficiency, without the environmental aspect about which most people couldn't give a ****, unfortunately.


Of course, EVs are not good enough yet for all jobs and needs, but you need only look at the number of ICE second cars around where I am in Kildare to see an untapped market of people who would actually save money with an L24/L30/L40/eUP!/Ioniq etc.

Why should they promote EVs?

They are in the business of making money?

Worlds largest automaker sold 50,000 pluggins last year

0.8% of total sales and they are going better than ever, why should they change?

Without heavy incentives are EVs really that in demand?

Look at normal markets like the UK that dont have wealth and extreme incentives like Scandinavian countries

Only 15,000 EVs were sold last year

0.7% of the market

I put in diesel today @ 1.18l which was great, will get nearly 600km for 40e from my 15 year old car ( nearly 2 weeks driving)

An EV on day rate electricity @ 13c im currently paying would cost me 15e

At 1.00 a litre it would be a hard sell to go to an EV imo

I don't know why the yanks bother with them when they pay 50c a litre

I'd be driving a 535D if we had 50c a litre

Gumbo

Mike9832 wrote: »

Why should they promote EVs?

They are in the business of making money?

Worlds largest automaker sold 50,000 pluggins last year

0.8% of total sales and they are going better than ever, why should they change?

Without heavy incentives are EVs really that in demand?

Look at normal markets like the UK that dont have wealth and extreme incentives like Scandinavian countries

Only 15,000 EVs were sold last year

0.7% of the market

I put in diesel today @ 1.18l which was great, will get nearly 600km for 40e from my 15 year old car ( nearly 2 weeks driving)

An EV on day rate electricity @ 13c im currently paying would cost me 15e

At 1.00 a litre it would be a hard sell to go to an EV imo

I don't know why the yanks bother with them when they pay 50c a litre

I'd be driving a 535D if we had 50c a litre

First off, where are you getting diesel for 1.18! I paid 1.23 in Dublin City on Friday and that was the best around.

Also, a 535d is more economical that you’d think. It was more economical than my 530d, 525d and is on par with our 530d when drove in similar circumstances. So just go for it

We drove 2 F10’s London to hollyhead last Friday. The 520 was 35.5mpg and the 535 was 35.4. We were not hanging around as we had a boat to catch that we boarded 10 mins before sailing so we knew it was gona be a tight drive to make it. Those figures could be improved significantly if driven with a bit of care.

Zenith74

Ah lads come on, lets not turn this into yet another 5000 reply thread that people cannot navigate. Surely there are other places for a debate on diesel prices and the merits of the 5-series diesels?

Gile_na_gile

Mike9832 wrote: »

Why should they promote EVs?

They are in the business of making money?

Worlds largest automaker sold 50,000 pluggins last year

0.8% of total sales and they are going better than ever, why should they change?

Without heavy incentives are EVs really that in demand?

Look at normal markets like the UK that dont have wealth and extreme incentives like Scandinavian countries

Only 15,000 EVs were sold last year

0.7% of the market

I agree but am coming at this from C02 side, where we need to see ICE sales plummit to match our commitments.China is more serious in this regard due to air pollution issues as well.

The EU is pushing well, but countries like Ireland are laggards. Best example is Netherlands. Similar size and economy, much higher population. 6% market share and massive jump in December.