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Leaf e+ 62kWh

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Still air cooled!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    Kona has an EPA range of 412km, has active battery cooling, 201HP and CCS upto 100kw. Why would anyone buy now buy a leaf?
    Nissan appear to be going backward with their cars as the competition has moved on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭ Zenith74


    Soarer wrote: »
    Still air cooled!

    You may be right, but I don't think that has been confirmed anywhere has it? I've seen it said in various comments in threads, but those same people said this would be a 60kWh battery, it would definitely be LG batteries while they are now saying they are AESC, car would be cancelled because of Goshn arrest etc etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Transport Evolved confirmed it.

    They didn't say if it was forced (fan) air or ambient.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    So what is real world range of Leaf 2 at 100km and 120km? the 40kWh one


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Kona has an EPA range of 412km

    The L62 will do 364km, so not far off.
    ewj1978 wrote: »
    has active battery cooling

    That could be the downfall of the L62. But you'd imagine the whole #rapidgate thing won't affect it due to the new software updates, and the infrequency of having to rapid charge due to range.
    ewj1978 wrote: »
    201HP and CCS upto 100kw

    The L62 has 214HP, Chademo up to 100kW, and 22kW AC.
    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Why would anyone buy now buy a leaf?
    Because it's bigger, cheaper, good availability, optional specs, less plasticky. As well as all the specs listed above.
    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Nissan appear to be going backward with their cars as the competition has moved on.

    Not at all.
    These things will fly out the door. The only mistake Nissan have made since the launch of the original Leaf is #rapidgate, and they've cured that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So what is real world range of Leaf 2 at 100km and 120km? the 40kWh one

    Ask in the other Leaf thread. Leave this one to the L62.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Kona has an EPA range of 412km, has active battery cooling, 201HP and CCS upto 100kw. Why would anyone buy now buy a leaf?
    Nissan appear to be going backward with their cars as the competition has moved on.




    1. The Kona has a miserable spec and no options...
    2. The Leaf is bigger
    3. More HP on the Leaf
    4. Probably will be cheaper


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Soarer wrote: »
    Ask in the other Leaf thread. Leave this one to the L62.




    Im trying to do a comparison, so if the L40 can do 300km real world then divide by 40 and multiply by 62 :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Please can we get away from #rapidgate. With the range on Leaf 2 40kWh most customers in Ireland would never have an issue.

    With the range on a L2 62kWh unless you are a salesman on the road you will never seen rapidgate. Majority live in Ireland on this forum. Our country is tiny. Hence why electric cars should be perfect for Ireland


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    62kwh battery more densely packed into a space 5mm bigger than the 40kwh which already has overheating issues, and they still refuse to liquid cool them.

    Genius.

    And no, rapidgate is not solved. The strict throttling that was put in place to reduce degradation has now been relaxed, so we can expect increased degradation.

    The average 2-3 year olf Leaf tends to have at least 10% degradation. The average same age i3 has maybe 1% degradation.

    #rapidgate has not been solved. It has been redesigned.

    The door is wide open for VW to clean up if they can follow through on their promises.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Please can we get away from #rapidgate. With the range on Leaf 2 40kWh most customers in Ireland would never have an issue.

    People said the same about the Leaf 40, "ah but sure how often will it affect you"?

    Not the point. Even if it rarely affected me I still don't believe that a 60kwh battery crammed into a small space and not properly cooled will have significantly worse prospects long term than a liquid cooled one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,910 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    So another piece of crap.
    No liquid cooling.
    No CCS (so limited to 50kW in the real world)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    People said the same about the Leaf 40, "ah but sure how often will it affect you"?

    Not the point. Even if it rarely affected me I still don't believe that a 60kwh battery crammed into a small space and not properly cooled will have significantly worse prospects long term than a liquid cooled one.


    The battery is cooled, just air cooled. I just think rapidgate is built up too much. If the battery gets to a certain temp and is cooled down by air I don't see what the issue is.



    The real issue with rapidgate is when doing lots of rapidcharges. As mentioned most customer will not see it.



    I am not making an excuse but I think for people swapping from diesel/petrol the first thing they see if rapidgate. When in fact they will never have an issue. Trying to explain to a new electric customer what it is will never work. You will just end up with them walking out with a petrol/diesel. And that is no good for anyone


    Nissan Leaf is the first real electric car that is available to the standard punter. I think looking the positives are better than the negatives.



    I will be ringing my parents to get rid of the Qashqai and swap to L62. It would be prefect for them. I will find a home for the L24


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭ Zenith74


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    People said the same about the Leaf 40, "ah but sure how often will it affect you"?

    Not the point. Even if it rarely affected me I still don't believe that a 60kwh battery crammed into a small space and not properly cooled will have significantly worse prospects long term than a liquid cooled one.

    I think the most that can be said right now is that time will tell.

    Air cooling as a technology can be extremely effective and efficient. Different battery chemistries can have a huge impact on both heat output and heat tolerance. Saying you're not happy with air cooling while knowing nothing about how it is implemented or what the long-term impact is is like me saying that I think liquid cooling is nonsense and I will be satisfied with nothing short of cryogenic cooling of my battery :D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,910 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The battery is cooled, just air cooled. I just think rapidgate is built up too much. If the battery gets to a certain temp and is cooled down by air I don't see what the issue is.



    The real issue with rapidgate is when doing lots of rapidcharges. As mentioned most customer will not see it.



    I am not making an excuse but I think for people swapping from diesel/petrol the first thing they see if rapidgate. When in fact they will never have an issue. Trying to explain to a new electric customer what it is will never work. You will just end up with them walking out with a petrol/diesel. And that is no good for anyone


    Nissan Leaf is the first real electric car that is available to the standard punter. I think looking the positives are better than the negatives.



    I will be ringing my parents to get rid of the Qashqai and swap to L62. It would be prefect for them. I will find a home for the L24


    All good points and I agree to a certain extent with all of them.
    The problem I have though, is that Nissan are targeting people who are not current EV owners with this car. Those people that ask me in work or at chargers "how long does it take to charge". I can tell them 28 minutes for my Ioniq from 10%-94%. For a leaf you cannot answer that question without humming and hawing about temperature, time of year etc and Joe Barstool in his diesel avensis (who's debating about a self charging auris or one o' them fancy new electric yokes) doesn't like uncertainty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    ELM327 wrote: »
    All good points and I agree to a certain extent with all of them.
    The problem I have though, is that Nissan are targeting people who are not current EV owners with this car. Those people that ask me in work or at chargers "how long does it take to charge". I can tell them 28 minutes for my Ioniq from 10%-94%. For a leaf you cannot answer that question without humming and hawing about temperature, time of year etc and Joe Barstool in his diesel avensis (who's debating about a self charging auris or one o' them fancy new electric yokes) doesn't like uncertainty.


    My view is different, when asked how long I just say no idea. I plug in at night and then it is charged by the time I get in the next morning....


    I do mention about the public system but I would never say XYZ time because if you can
    A Get a working charger
    B get one not blocked
    C get one that is not already in use
    Then maybe I would say give yourself 1 hour.



    With the range on L62, most people will really only use that range away from home if they are going on holiday. So easy answer is just book a hotel with slow charger and again it will be ready in morning.



    I think most electric drivers are techie people and we get down to the nitty gritty too quickly. Better to stay up in the clouds :P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Just one other point. Will this see a huge increase in electric car sales. I don't think so.

    What I do see is when a VW owner heads in to swap and suddenly they are pushing the ID range. When a Nissan customer walks in and it is a Leaf, when the hyundai customer....etc etc

    You know what I mean, then you will see customer comparing. Then it will be interesting to see how the L62 does. I know if I was sitting in VW/Hyundai/Kia and someone mentioned Leaf I would jump onto the battery cooling system. Move that customer quickly across to an ID etc.....

    Also is the heat pump standard on the Leaf?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    No CCS is most disappointing of it all. Meaning the car will most likely never be able to charge faster than 43kW anywhere in Ireland. With tapering (and hopefully without any #rapidgate issue - which remains to be seen in the disappointing absence of liquid cooling) this means a 0-90% charge of the 62kWh or so battery in about 2 hours. That's not a fast charge :(
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Nissan are targeting people who are not current EV owners with this car. Those people that ask me in work or at chargers "how long does it take to charge". I can tell them 28 minutes for my Ioniq from 10%-94%. For a leaf you cannot answer that question without humming and hawing about temperature, time of year etc

    Nail on the head. Even in the current L40 with the #rapidgate issue, very experienced EV owners like samih on here can still use the car reasonably well even on trips of several thousand km

    For EV n00bs it's not quite the same. Hence we're seeing several of the new L40 owners blocking up fast chargers for hours on end

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 samih


    New navigation system with over the air updates sounds like a good improvement.

    Still beaten by IONIQ as a proper long distance cruiser.

    The battery heating will probably be less serious on L62 as 1) the C rate during motorway driving will be 50 percent lower than before and 2) you can drive 200 kilometers between the charges and keep the battery between 10 and 70 percent. The LEAFspeed(tm) can probably be increased from 100 real to 105-110 real I reckon with similar range consumption between L40 and L62 due to the lower C rate and hopefully less resistance in the newer cells.

    There is apparently a new floor on LEAFs built after October or so to accommodate the 5 mm taller new battery case. I'm really surprised they haven't used forced air cooling again. This combined with CHAdeMO are the two main drawbacks. And of course the eventual comparisons to VW later this year.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Another EV option, can only be a good thing, hard crowd


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ Mike9832


    Specs are pretty decent

    215bhp and 1680kg

    This thing will be hot hatch quick, should be sub 7 secs easily to 60

    Air cooling like Ioniq and NV200 should be fine here

    No CCS is disappointing, 22kW on board charger makes up for that though, we have plenty of them around the country

    If Leaf40 can do 150km at 120, this should do 230km

    Not Kona range, but it's only 56kWh useable or so, not 64kWh useable like Kona

    Kona is a really small car in comparison and Leaf feels more planted to drive, less bouncy and stuck to the road, Kona suspension is a bit soft

    Hopefully we get a Nismo or sport version with stiffer suspension, doesnt need more power with 215bhp on tap


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    slave1 wrote: »
    Another EV option, can only be a good thing, hard crowd




    Very hard crowd.



    Not so long ago the option was a Leaf or Zoe


    Now we have
    L40
    L62(nearly)
    Kona 64
    eNiro 64(nearly)
    Zoe
    eGolf
    Ioniq
    A few second hand Merc's


    All in the standard market for customer. Some jump from Feb 2017 when I first posted in here and it was really only the Leaf recommendations


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    CCS was tested on the L40/L62 during development. So disappointing that it's stuck on CHadeMo.

    So to summarize the differences between the Leafs:

    |L24mk2|L30|L40|L62
    Pack capacity|24kWh|30kWh|40kWh|62kWh
    Cell Supplier|AESC|AESC|AESC|LG Chem
    Motor power|80kW|80kW|110kW|160kW
    Motor torque|254Nm|254Nm|320Nm|340Nm
    Top Spec Weight|1549kg|1570kg|1520kg|1680kg
    0-100 time|10.5 sec|10.5 sec|7.9 sec|6.4 sec
    Speed Limiter|160km/h|160km/h|160km/h|180km/h
    EPA Range|135km|172km|243km|364km
    Peak DC Charging|50kW|50kW|50kW|100kW
    Sustained DC charging|43kW|43kW|43kW|70kW
    AC Charging|3.3/6.6kW|3.3/6.6kW|6.6kW|11/22kW

    On 50kW rapids with the C-rate these cells will be seeing rapidgate is a non-issue. Still would have liked to see liquid-cooling for pack longevity...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Conflicting info there, cros13. So is it really the same 64kWh LG chem pack as in Hyundai / Kia or is it still the inferior AESC batteries that seem more prone than any other battery to degradation?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    samih wrote: »
    Still beaten by IONIQ as a proper long distance cruiser.

    I wouldn't go that far :p

    With the 64kWh battery, you should be able to go from A to B almost anywhere in Ireland without charging. So Leaf would beat Ioniq, which would have to charge

    On the continent it would be a different matter. It would be interesting to see a race from say Berlin to Rome with the Ioniq 28kWh charging on Ionity (at max 70kW) and the Leaf 64kWh having to charge on CHAdeMO (at max 43kW). Who would win?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    unkel wrote: »
    Conflicting info there, cros13. So is it really the same 64kWh LG chem pack as in Hyundai / Kia or is it still the inferior AESC batteries that seem more prone than any other battery to degradation?

    Definitely LG Chem, Which means potential supply issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Now we have
    L40
    L62(nearly)
    Kona 64
    eNiro 64(nearly)
    Zoe
    eGolf
    Ioniq
    A few second hand Merc's

    *cough


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    unkel wrote: »
    I wouldn't go that far :p

    With the 64kWh battery, you should be able to go from A to B almost anywhere in Ireland without charging. So Leaf would beat Ioniq, which would have to charge

    On the continent it would be a different matter. It would be interesting to see a race from say Berlin to Rome with the Ioniq 28kWh charging on Ionity (at max 70kW) and the Leaf 64kWh having to charge on CHAdeMO (at max 43kW). Who would win?

    If you're crossing Europe, why would the max be 43kW.

    Transport Evolved said you should average 70kW across the charging range. Where are they talking about that gives you those speeds?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    *cough

    i3 what you did there.


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