Leaf e+ 62kWh

kuro68k

unkel wrote: »

You're confusing monthly PCP payments with cost of ownership. They are not the same as a lot of people have painfully found out!

Why would the Model 3 be significantly more to own?

There is the luxury car tax I suppose, currently £320/year. The maintenance schedule for the Model 3 is more relaxed though, doesn't need a £150 service every year.

Sorry it's all UK figures, but I'm guessing that Irish dealers rip you off on servicing too.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

On a 500km trip my family and I would want to have lunch or dinner. And go to the bathroom. That would easily take the guts of 45 minutes even in a fast food place.

I done my now regular UK trip a few weeks back. All the family and craziness with me.


Just under 350km after ferry on the lovely UK motorways. Same as last year we stopped to grab some lunch/stretch legs etc.....before we knew it an hour had passed when we jumped back into car


Same as last year. If driving a long distance like that, especially with kids you are going to take a good 40-60 min break anyway

MarkN

€37,840 and order books open.

Zenith74

Thought I’d add this to this thread seems as somebody asked about it!

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Nobody has given their thoughts here on L62 ownership. How are you finding the e+? I'd swap to it if possible from L40, but now with CCS about to be the norm for all new sales in Ireland (& Europe) I would only consider bargains on SH market and a good sale price for L40 and look to SH M3 when they drop below 40k. Another negative is that the e+ was retrofitted to not charge over 50Kw so the new 150Kw chargers will not make a big difference.

With everything going on I haven’t driven it a huge amount, but drove down from NI (200km used 60% of the battery, half that was motorway set to 130km/h) and lots of local journeys. Coming from a Leaf24. Personally I love the Leaf, fairly premium interior, smooth and enjoyable to drive, plenty of tech that actually works, much bigger than people realise, depreciation pretty reasonable these days.

Yes CHAdeMO is a bummer, but with enough range to drive to most places in Ireland non-stop it’s not a major issue for me and we’re years from CHAdeMO being removed from charging locations. I think the e+ can do 100kW charging, averaging 75kW or something? But again not a big issue for me.

Battery degradation is really not that big a deal, my 6 year old Leaf24 sold with 86% SOH and no questions asked, it’s just baked into the depreciated cost. Leaf62 will need to be charged less for obvious reasons, charging is spread over more cells, better chemistry etc. I mean I’d prefer it degraded less quickly, but it’s a minor issue.

The fact the likes of the eNiro can do an extra 75-100km on a similar battery is a shame, but for my use a complete non issue.

I think the Leaf40 is a great deal for somebody buying a SH EV today (€20k for a 2018 with loads of tech) and I reckon the Leaf62 will be a cracking deal when you can get them for €20k in a couple of years time.

The Leaf gets way more flack than it deserves on this forum. I tried the Kona, Niro, M3, MS, i3, E-tron and still chose the e+ (though mostly on price compared to the e-trim/MS) to be fair :-).

unkel

Zenith74 wrote: »

The Leaf gets way more flack than it deserves on this forum.

Because it used to be absurdly expensive for what you were getting, just a few grand short of Tesla money for a decent spec L62

I was one of the first to actually praise the L62 for being one of the few good value for money EVs around when you could get one for €34k on scrappage. I'll stand by that point. And I agree with you, in another 2-3 years time this will be a great second hand EV for €20k

Gile_na_gile

Zenith74 wrote: »

Thought I’d add this to this thread seems as somebody asked about it!

Thanks, that is a good review and we'll hear more as we return to motoring days again. Regards the charging, it was from reading the forums on SpeakEV earlier this year. However, someone posted the other day that they peaked at ~70Kw recently on a new 150Kw BP charger in Britain, so it does seem to work. People had wondered because they removed references to 100Kw on the Nissan website.

It's a good reworking of the L40 (and L24/30) to get that far on that initial base from 2011, and then the Ariya will clearly be the next step forward. Also agree on size, with only the e-Niro and Teslas competing for a long time on usable storage. I prefer the interior design of Nissan over that of Kia anyday, even if the e-Niro is better on range and a well-made car.

unkel wrote: »

And I agree with you, in another 2-3 years time this will be a great second hand EV for €20k

Perhaps after 3 years, but 20k in 2022 is a bit of a bum price for an L62, but we'll see with all the new competition what happens. There will be a bunch of big mature EVs on the road by then - Enyaq, Mach-E, Ariya, etc. etc.

Zenith74

unkel wrote: »

Because it used to be absurdly expensive for what you were getting, just a few grand short of Tesla money for a decent spec L62

I was one of the first to actually praise the L62 for being one of the few good value for money EVs around when you could get one for €34k on scrappage. I'll stand by that point. And I agree with you, in another 2-3 years time this will be a great second hand EV for €20k

Yes fully agree with you on the price and criticism there. I was moreso referring to the discussions around the likes of rapidgate, battery degradation and implications that the likes of the Kona/Niro are better cars in every way than the Leaf. Reality is most of these things don't affect the vast majority of owners, and other than price the Leaf is a great car to own and drive.

I just looked up, you don't get Pro Pilot for 40k ?

Nearly 43K for 62 Kwh pro pilot and metallic paint ?

Bose is absolute shyte, Shame Nissan decided to use an Audio setup from BOSE instean of a proper HiFi Manufacturer, even the JBL system in my 2007 Prius was far better, the BOSE system has Boomy bass and sounds very muddy.

Half the old model Leaf is still there.

70 Kw charging

Model 3 49K and what , 170 Kw charging ? Autopilot which I assume is far better than Nissans Pro Pilot ? + M3 gets OTA updates + Google maps.

7,1 Seconds is pretty decent though I'll give them that if only it went to the rear wheels because as I noticed in the Korean cars, damp and wet roads could see that 0-100 clime to 10 seconds or more.

6.6 Kw AC charger is that correct ? what has the M3 got 11 Kw ?

Zenith74

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just looked up, you don't get Pro Pilot for 40k ?

Nearly 43K for 62 Kwh pro pilot and metallic paint ?

Bose is absolute shyte, Shame Nissan decided to use an Audio setup from BOSE instean of a proper HiFi Manufacturer, even the JBL system in my 2007 Prius was far better, the BOSE system has Boomy bass and sounds very muddy.

Half the old model Leaf is still there.

70 Kw charging

Model 3 49K and what , 170 Kw charging ? Autopilot which I assume is far better than Nissans Pro Pilot ? + M3 gets OTA updates + Google maps.

7,1 Seconds is pretty decent though I'll give them that if only it went to the rear wheels because as I noticed in the Korean cars, damp and wet roads could see that 0-100 clime to 10 seconds or more.

6.6 Kw AC charger is that correct ? what has the M3 got 11 Kw ?

Ah perfect LOL, saves me looking up an example of the types of posts I was talking about @unkle - ie. lots of things (excluding price as already agreed) that make little difference to the average person... 6.6kW vs 11kW, lordy lordy?

Gile_na_gile

Deleted User wrote: »

I just looked up, you don't get Pro Pilot for 40k ?

€37,840 for SV Premium

€40,500 for SVE with ProPilot


https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/price-specifications.html#grade-ZE1-2


I presume a bit of bargaining could get knock them down to 36 and 39 respectively. Not sure what story is now with car sales and Covid. Also I wonder if there might be a stimulus package when vaccines are on the horizon and recovery secure.

Zenith74

Zenith74 wrote: »

Ah perfect LOL, saves me looking up an example of the types of posts I was talking about @unkle

What ? I'm lost.

Gile_na_gile

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

€37,840 for SV Premium

€40,500 for SVE with ProPilot


https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/price-specifications.html#grade-ZE1-2


I presume a bit of bargaining could get knock them down to 36 and 39 respectively. Not sure what story is now with car sales and Covid. Also I wonder if there might be a stimulus package when vaccines are on the horizon and recovery secure.

I doubt it, margins are tight on EV as it is.

Zenith74

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What ? I'm lost.

Sorry, I should have added some context there :-). A few posts further up I’d made the point that the Leaf gets an outsized amount of grief on here, unkle had said they’re too expensive for what you get, and I’d agreed with that saying it’s the other stuff I had a problem with. Then you posted a big long list of stuff that, with respect, may be relevant to EV enthusiasts but is meaningless to your average punter like my Mum/Dad/sibling thinking of going electric. 7 vs 11kW charging, ProPilot vs AutoPilot etc mean zilch to them.

Reality is the Leaf, particularly the 62, is a sturdy, reliable, premium interior, not unattractive, fairly long range, tech loaded EV that somebody used to a regular Toyota/Nissan/Hyundai will feel immediately comfortable in. It is currently a bit expensive, but I’m a couple of years at €20k it will be a great car to convert the masses to EV.

Zenith74

Zenith74 wrote: »

Sorry, I should have added some context there :-). A few posts further up I’d made the point that the Leaf gets an outsized amount of grief on here, unkle had said they’re too expensive for what you get, and I’d agreed with that saying it’s the other stuff I had a problem with. Then you posted a big long list of stuff that, with respect, may be relevant to EV enthusiasts but is meaningless to your average punter like my Mum/Dad/sibling thinking of going electric. 7 vs 11kW charging, ProPilot vs AutoPilot etc mean zilch to them.

Reality is the Leaf, particularly the 62, is a sturdy, reliable, premium interior, not unattractive, fairly long range, tech loaded EV that somebody used to a regular Toyota/Nissan/Hyundai will feel immediately comfortable in. It is currently a bit expensive, but I’m a couple of years at €20k it will be a great car to convert the masses to EV.

Zenith74 wrote: »

Ah perfect LOL, saves me looking up an example of the types of posts I was talking about @unkle - ie. lots of things (excluding price as already agreed) that make little difference to the average person... 6.6kW vs 11kW, lordy lordy?

True, if ignorant to the advantages of 11 Kw vs 6.6 Kw then sure it means nothing but to anyone else 11 Kw is a real advantage that means 22 Kwh in 2 hrs vs 13.2 Kwh or 33 Kwh in 3 hrs vs 19.8 Kwh and could mean a trip less to a fast charger to have to wait another God knows how long or might even mean you can get to your next destination without fast charging at all.

Not including faster AC charging is not something I would say Nissan should be doing at this stage of the game after all charging speed is what People "will" care about once they actually own an EV.

Battery degradation was a real issue on the 24 Kwh but mostly because it will be cycled much more depending on the mileage you do, my 24 Kwh after nearly 3 years and around 85,000 Kms I saw a good 10 - 12 % loss and I can't imagine what it would have been like now after 5 years and 160,000 - 170,000 kms.

Having said all that after 3 years 4 months and 91,000 kms my i3 33 Kwh is showing no loss of capacity at all neither by the hidden menu or by driving tests, remarkable for sure.

The 62 Kwh Leaf battery will most likely last a long time due to the amount of Kwh, cycling will be far less than on the 24 Kw which only really had 21 Kwh usable in warmer weather and it was not very efficient.

slave1

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

€37,840 for SV Premium

€40,500 for SVE with ProPilot


https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/price-specifications.html#grade-ZE1-2


I presume a bit of bargaining could get knock them down to 36 and 39 respectively. Not sure what story is now with car sales and Covid. Also I wonder if there might be a stimulus package when vaccines are on the horizon and recovery secure.

Good God, get a 2014/15 Tesla Model S for that

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Good God, get a 2014/15 Tesla Model S for that

You would but limited remaining warranty which isn’t great for high mileage drivers like me.

+ there’s a lot more Nissan dealers should something go wrong.

Old diesel

The Leaf gets flack because you can buy other cars with CCS and active cooling.

CCS is a hugely important thing as it makes your 30 k plus new car more future proof.

Active cooling also important.

Zenith74

Old diesel wrote: »

The Leaf gets flack because you can buy other cars with CCS and active cooling.

CCS is a hugely important thing as it makes your 30 k plus new car more future proof.

Active cooling also important.

And look I’d prefer the Leaf had CCS, however we are years away from CHAdeMO not being installed alongside new CCS ports and many many years away from CHAdeMO being removed altogether. It’s a non-issue for the average person who buys a car for 4-5 years before changing.

Re. active cooling again yeah better if the Leaf has it but in the Irish climate the difference between having it and not is minor enough. Non-issue for average punter.

Zenith74

[Deleted User] wrote: »

my opinions are that, just mine and don't reflect what others may or may not see and doesn't make the leaf any better or worse because of my opinion I acknowledge this.

And look I do understand that. My point was just that because most of the more prolific posters in this forum hold the same view, somebody looking for an EV would come away with the impression that the only average punter EV worth considering is the eNiro/Kona and the Leaf is so fatally flawed as to be a useless undrivable waste of nuts and bolts :-). In reality the Kona/Niro are only better decisions if you absolutely need the range, otherwise the Kona is tiny, feels cheap and plasticy inside and is unpleasant to drive with any enthusiasm because the power has been mapped so poorly.

Gile_na_gile

Back to where we started. If you can get a good deal on the L62 in lieu of this limitations, then it can be great car (say for €35k SV or €37kk SVE). Aside from Zenith74, we have a lot of lurkers who won't tell us a) why they bought an L62 and a ball-park price. I spoke to the dealer I used for the L40 and was told they weren't selling many compared to the L40, but they are thinking about sales, not being candid, and are not going to give me a real price unless I am buying.

I would upgrade/sidegrade+ to the L62 once it hits the SH market late 2021, a long time yet. The Ariya is obviously a superior product, but would estimate around €44k or similar to Mach-E and Enyaq pricing.

Zenith74

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

If you can get a good deal on the L62 in lieu of this limitations, then it can be great car (say for €35k SV or €37kk SVE.

FWIW I paid €33k for a very low mileage ex-demo with two tone metallic paint and ProPark. Some good deals coming I reckon.

slave1 wrote: »

Good God, get a 2014/15 Tesla Model S for that

A perfectly valid comparison to an EV enthusiast, a cruel cruel trick to an average punter.

Gile_na_gile

Zenith74 wrote: »

FWIW I paid €33k for a very low mileage ex-demo with two tone metallic paint and ProPark. Some good deals coming I reckon.

That is a pretty good price. There are a few ex-demo L62s on Carsireland at the moment for 35k upwards.



Also agree on Model S. You need to know what you are taking on board with it (maintenance, running costs such as premium tyres etc.) but for an enthusiast it is a logical choice and rewarding.

Stealthirl

For me id get the L40/62 SVE/Tekna used because of price and availability. 6.6 charging has been grand with my L24 and i rarely use the public network. The only other current car i would go for is an eSoul and that has a smaller boot.
I like the TM3 but not being a hatch back and heaving to have a subscription for Satellite-View Maps etc and not just using Apple carplay/Droid auto put me off as dose lack of a heatpump.(small things i know)
The Leaf is still a very good buy used and will continue to be for a while yet. Alot of people ignore the fact the Leaf was truly the first real mass market EV for everyone.

Gile_na_gile

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

That is a pretty good price. There are a few ex-demo L62s on Carsireland at the moment for 35k upwards.



Also agree on Model S. You need to know what you are taking on board with it (maintenance, running costs such as premium tyres etc.) but for an enthusiast it is a logical choice and rewarding.

You don't have to be an enthusiast to drive a Model S, it's a big practical car that's got power.

A leaf is probably more reliable though with less to go wrong and less expensive to fix and you'll have no problem walking into a main Dealer if something goes wrong.

Zenith74

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't have to be an enthusiast to drive a Model S, it's a big practical car that's got power.

A leaf is probably more reliable though with less to go wrong and less expensive to fix and you'll have no problem walking into a main Dealer if something goes wrong.

The context was somebody buying a new Leaf 62 being advised that a 2014 Model S would be better for them. For an EV enthusiast sure, for an average Joe expecting a small hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer that is as cheap to run as all the newspaper articles say, it would be a sadistic enough recommendation :-).

liamog

Zenith74 wrote: »

The context was somebody buying a new Leaf 62 being advised that a 2014 Model S would be better for them. For an EV enthusiast sure, for an average Joe expecting a small hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer that is as cheap to run as all the newspaper articles say, it would be a sadistic enough recommendation :-).

It's a bit mad alright, there is a tendency in the EV world to ignore the different classes and styles of car and treat them all as one EV bucket.

optimal

Has anyone got one of these and how are they finding them. Particularly range and speed of charging.
I have a 30 which is a really great car but occasionally I have to make longer journeys which can be a bit of a pain.

Grateful for any feedback.