Almost every position the left has, is actually just an attack on Christian beliefs?

Skylinehead

DS86DS wrote: »

You were banned from this forum

Why are you back here

If you don't shape up in this thread you're damn right I'm going to censor you.

pablo39er

Cienciano wrote: »

Problem is, too many people have decided it's a football game. Their side is left or right. No matter what their side does it must be defended.

The greatest divide and conquer strategy ever devised to keep ordinary people subservient was dividing them up into 'left' and 'right' to fight among themselves. People will the support the most idiotic left/right wing self destructive policy, simply because they believe they must support one or the other at all times, instead of taking each proposal on it's own merits. As soon as you hear someone spouting "the left always blah blah blag" or "the right always blah blah blah" - it's a sure sign they have handed their mind over to someone else and haven't worked it out.

Wibbs

Zorya wrote: »

It does not seem logical to fight against groups. Or even to be in a group to be honest. It is better to fight for individual ideas that you have considered and against ideas likewise. Any group can have good and bad ideas. That's the problem really, aligning oneself come what may with a 'group' and then detesting the other group regardless of good ideas they may have. That's not thinking; that's indoctrination.

Nail on the bloody head Zed. Why the holy hell are so many of us hellbent on importing the worst of retarded American identity politics, from Irish eejits idolising a thundering orange rich by mistake and his father's crust gobshite like Trump while another bunch of Irish eejits sound off like US college social "sciences" majors?

Now the US most definitely has its positives and bright spots and lots of them, but it also contains a clusterfuck of barely educated idiocy and that idiocy shouts loud on the airwaves and modems. Regardless, and I can't believe I have to repeat this: This is not bloody America. Thank Christ, or whatever deity you pray to, or not. Here's a thought; maybe think more locally? Or god forbid think more independently.

If all you have is Them versus Us, then where do You exist?

hill16bhoy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I don't think them.

You're the one slobbering on about your disdain for "Catholic fundies" and a love of left wing crap when it was right wing businessmen and a "Catholic fundie" that created the club you support. Seems to be becoming more and more prevalent down the years.

The hypocrisy is incredible.

What hypocrisy?

You seem to have watched that infamous clip of Louise Mensch making a fool of herself on Have I Got News For You, and for some reason have decided to copy her utterly ludicrous "argument", which was rightly and roundly ridiculed.

Because it's the exact same "argument" you're making.

pablo39er

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I find it strange that you're under the impression that anybody who supports Celtic has to have Roman Catholic fundamentalist beliefs.

And no more than everybody who has ever worked with Fr. Peter McVerry has Roman Catholic fundamentalist beliefs.

What are these "Roman Catholic fundamentalist beliefs" you keep ranting about ? How are they different from Catholic beliefs ?

I remember Ian Paisley used to have similar rants about "Roman" Catholics when referring to Catholics in NI when he attempted to playing sectarian politics and bigotry as well.

Ruraldweller56

hill16bhoy wrote: »

What hypocrisy?

You seem to have watched that infamous clip of Louise Mensch making a fool of herself on Have I Got News For You, and for some reason have decided to copy her utterly ludicrous "argument", which was rightly and roundly ridiculed.

Because it's the exact same "argument" you're making.

I'm not watching that crap. I'm a tim. Have been my whole life. The fact you can't reply to my point without telling me to watch a YouTube video of some ginnit first tells me all I need to know.

You rely on someone you hate (Louise) to make your point for you.

Now. I'm off to sing songs of Irish nationalism while supporting an open borders regime that would render my own nation a thing of the past.

Being the good little Lefty I am.

hill16bhoy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I'm not watching that crap. I'm a tim. Have been my whole life. The fact you can't reply to my point without telling me to watch a YouTube video of some ginnit first tells me all I need to know.

You rely on someone you hate (Louise) to make your point for you.

Now. I'm off to sing songs of Irish nationalism while supporting an open borders regime that would render my own nation a thing of the past.

Being the good little Lefty I am.

Your "argument" is if that if you support a football team that was founded by a Roman Catholic brother yet disagree with Roman Catholic fundamentalism, you're a hypocrite.

Yes, that's actually your "argument".

Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you look?

Ruraldweller56

pablo39er wrote: »

What are these "Roman Catholic fundamentalist beliefs" you keep ranting about ? How are they different from Catholic beliefs ?

I remember Ian Paisley used to have similar rants about "Roman" Catholics when referring to Catholics in NI when he attempted to playing sectarian politics and bigotry as well.

I'd say a guy that devotes his life to the Church, remains celebate and serves as a missionary in a foreign country is a Catholic fundamentalist.

But according to my man here he's a pro open borders Liberal f**king loon.

Go figure.

hill16bhoy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I'd say a guy that devotes his life to the Church, remains celebate and serves as a missionary in a foreign country is a Catholic fundamentalist.

But according to my man here he's a pro open borders Liberal f**king loon.

Go figure.

No, you just made that up, because you couldn't argue my point.

But whatever Brother Walfrid was, he was most certainly a person who believed that immigrants should be treated with dignity and respect - given that he was an immigrant himself, and that the football club he founded was specifically to be used not just as a social and recreational community hub for the immigrant Irish population and as a means of integration, but most importantly as a means of fund raising to feed them.

Oh, and you'll note that Brother Walfrid specifically welcomed Protestants as supporters - so he was in explicit disagrement with you, who is under the impression that to be a Celtic supporter you have to be a Catholic fundamentalist. It would be hard to find more wilful ignorance than you've just displayed.

http://www.celticfc.net/pages/corporate_socialmission

Its principal founder was a Marist Brother named Walfrid. The Club had two principal aims: The first aim was to raise funds to provide food for the poor of the East End of Glasgow, an area of the City that was greatly impoverished and had a high rate of infant mortality. Within the East End was a large Irish community and friction was growing between the native Glaswegians and the new influx of Irish. Brother Walfrid saw the need for social integration and his vision was a football club that Scottish and Irish, Protestants and Catholics alike could support. A new football club would be a vehicle to bring the communities together and this was the second aim. The Marist brother sought for the Club to have both a Scottish and Irish identity and hence, the Club's name "Celtic" came about, representing a bridge of cultures across the Irish Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Celtic_F.C._(1887%E2%80%931994)

Celtic Football Club was formally constituted at a meeting in St. Mary's church hall in East Rose Street (now Forbes Street), Calton, Glasgow, by Irish Marist Brother Walfrid[1] on 6 November 1887, with the purpose of alleviating poverty in the East End of Glasgow by raising money for the charity Walfrid had instituted, the Poor Children's Dinner Table.[2] Walfrid's move to establish the club as a means of fund-raising was largely inspired by the example of Hibernian who were formed out of the immigrant Irish population a few years earlier in Edinburgh.[3]

A laudable aim.

Wouldn't you agree?

Yet it's the exact same thing you so obviously hate.

Imagine that - you claim to support a club whose founding mission - namely, to ensure the health and well-being of immigrants, so obviously sickens you.

Now that really would make you a total hypocrite.

You should read up a bit about the history of the club you claim to support, because you're clearly utterly ignorant about it.

pablo39er

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I'd say a guy that devotes his life to the Church, remains celebate and serves as a missionary in a foreign country is a Catholic fundamentalist.

But according to my man here he's a pro open borders Liberal f**king loon.

Go figure.

He was on another thread earlier, complaining about "whites" (bad apparently) in comparison to "non whites"(good apparently). Now it turns out he's a very confused Celtic supporter who hates Catholics who are actually Catholic. He doesn't seem to realise he seems to have been conditioned to hate his own skin colour and own cultural background, it's quite sad to watch the how self destructive this self hating is for him.

I really hope for his own sake, he works out sometime, that he's been sold a pup, and it's actually perfectly ok to have white skin, and it's perfectly ok to be Catholic ?

Ruraldweller56

hill16bhoy wrote: »

No, you just made that up, because you couldn't argue my point.

But whatever Brother Walfrid was, he was most certainly a person who believed that immigrants should be treated with dignity and respect - given that he was an immigrant himself, and that the football club he founded was specifically to be used not just as a social and recreational community hub for the immigrant Irish population and as a means of integration, but most importantly as a means of fund raising to feed them.

Oh, and you'll note that Brother Walfrid specifically welcomed Protestants as supporters - so he was in explicit disagrement with you, who is under the impression that to be a Celtic supporter you have to be a Catholic fundamentalist. It would be hard to find more wilful ignorance than you've just displayed.






A laudable aim.

Wouldn't you agree?

Yet it's the exact same thing you so obviously hate.

Imagine that - you claim to support a club whose founding mission - namely, to ensure the health and well-being of immigrants, so obviously sickens you.

Now that really would make you a total hypocrite.

You should read up a bit about the history of the club you claim to support, because you're clearly utterly ignorant about it.

You probably don't even know who the glass family are (Google it quick).

Yes I've heard all that BS before. You do realise that back in 1887 it was predominantly a Catholic and protestant community in Glasgow? I guess it will always be subjective. He's not alive anymore so we can't ask him.

But if you want to believe he was a pro abortion pro SSM no borders Lefty anti Catholic loon then I probably can't convince you otherwise.

Roaming in the gloaming, with the shamrock in my hand.

Ruraldweller56

pablo39er wrote: »

He was on another thread earlier, complaining about "whites" (bad apparently) in comparison to "non whites"(good apparently). Now it turns out he's a very confused Celtic supporter who hates Catholics who are actually Catholic. He doesn't seem to realise he seems to have been conditioned to hate his own skin colour and own cultural background, it's quite sad to watch the how self destructive this self hating is for him.

I really hope for his own sake, he works out sometime, that he's been sold a pup, and it's actually perfectly ok to have white skin, and it's perfectly ok to be Catholic ?

Up until very, very recently I was going over there a few times a year. At a big financial cost.

The self loathing and hypocrisy of 'Catholics' and 'Irish Nationalists' just became too much. It just felt as if these guys wanted me to feel ashamed of my heritage.

Seeing guys with Palestine flags in one hand and pride flags in the other was enough. Not that I've terribly strong ideas on either issue. It's just like. Lads. Cop on.

hill16bhoy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

You probably don't even know who the glass family are (Google it quick).

Yes I've heard all that BS before. You do realise that back in 1887 it was predominantly a Catholic and protestant community in Glasgow? I guess it will always be subjective. He's not alive anymore so we can't ask him.

But if you want to believe he was a pro abortion pro SSM no borders Lefty anti Catholic loon then I probably can't convince you otherwise.

Roaming in the gloaming, with the shamrock in my hand.

I'm surprised you still have the brass neck to post any further after the unmerciful clamping I gave you above.

It's barstool idiots like you who are wilfully ignorant of the club they claim to support that have unfortunately given the vast majority of ordinary, decent Celtic supporters in this country a bad name.

But even among those barstoolers, I doubt there are many that have quite the same level of ignorance as you, who hates immigrants, yet claims to support a club that wouldn't exist, but for, you've guessed it, immigration.

Ruraldweller56

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I'm surprised you still have the brass neck to post any further after the unmerciful clamping I gave you above.

It's barstool idiots like you who are wilfully ignorant of the club they claim to support that have unfortunately given the vast majority of ordinary, decent Celtic supporters in this country a bad name.

But even among those barstoolers, I doubt there are many that have quite the same level of ignorance as you, who hates immigrants, yet claims to support a club that wouldn't exist, but for, you've guessed it, immigration.

Unmerciful clamping? All I saw was a pile of crap.

Barstool? I already pointed out that I'm over there (or was) at least 3 times a year.

You sound like your typical Bohs fan now. Bitter that people support Celtic instead of his team.

They're the only ones I've heard use that phrase before. And only ever towards Celtic supporters.

Ruraldweller56

pablo39er wrote: »

He was on another thread earlier, complaining about "whites" (bad apparently) in comparison to "non whites"(good apparently). Now it turns out he's a very confused Celtic supporter who hates Catholics who are actually Catholic. He doesn't seem to realise he seems to have been conditioned to hate his own skin colour and own cultural background, it's quite sad to watch the how self destructive this self hating is for him.

I really hope for his own sake, he works out sometime, that he's been sold a pup, and it's actually perfectly ok to have white skin, and it's perfectly ok to be Catholic ?

That one line just about sums up why I don't bother anymore.

pablo39er

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Unmerciful clamping? All I saw was a pile of crap.

Barstool? I already pointed out that I'm over there (or was) at least 3 times a year.

You sound like your typical Bohs fan now. Bitter that people support Celtic instead of his team.

They're the only ones I've heard use that phrase before. And only ever towards Celtic supporters.

lol, maybe he meant unmerciful glamping ?

Danzy

Electorally the Left might be a thing of the past in most of Europe.

Its vote share is collapsing in many countries and the worst falls are in Working Class areas.

The Left is now a Middle Class project in most places and often a cold house for working class people and views, for all the talk about working class politics etc.

Look at the results from Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy and on and on.

Ironically for the opening post, what did for the Left was the same thing that did for the Church here. The hectoring righteousness, the attitude of anyone who does not agree on anything is a sinning heretic, trying to control what people can say, think and do. The do as I say but not as I do.

Not all in the Left are like that but enough are to cause the whole spectrum problems and they tend to be the more active missionary types so have undue influence.

I think we are rapidly heading towards a Post Left political world, where the Left is consistently a non contender for power or even coalition due to size.

Danzy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

.

Seeing guys with Palestine flags in one hand and pride flags in the other was enough. Not that I've terribly strong ideas on either issue. It's just like. Lads. Cop on.

Stuff like that reminds me of when that gay rights activist Peter Tatchell was protesting with at the London Mayor Ken Livingstone meeting Sunni Cleric Al Qaradawi, probably the most respected and listened to Sunni Cleric in the world.

He had a problem with the Sheikh advocating the murder of Gays, amongst other groups he said should be killed.

Labour activists threatened, berated and harrassed him for a long time after that.

As long as they were all in it together, they ran with it and massive contradictions did not matter.

hill16bhoy

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Unmerciful clamping? All I saw was a pile of crap.

Barstool? I already pointed out that I'm over there (or was) at least 3 times a year.

You sound like your typical Bohs fan now. Bitter that people support Celtic instead of his team.

They're the only ones I've heard use that phrase before. And only ever towards Celtic supporters.

Celtic is a unique entity. It isn't a merely a club, it was founded as a mass movement to support immigrants.

Respect and support for immigrants is a core value of what it means to be a Celtic supporter.

And anybody who doesn't subscribe to it cannot call themselves a proper Celtic supporter.

You aren't a proper Celtic supporter because you haven't a clue about the club's history and values.

Zorya

Danzy wrote: »

I think we are rapidly heading towards a Post Left political world, where the Left is consistently a non contender for power or even coalition due to size.

Whoa there, Danzy. There's still Canada...

https://vimeo.com/307299816

pablo39er

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Celtic is a unique entity. It isn't a merely a club, it was founded as a mass movement to support immigrants.

Respect and support for immigrants is a core value of what it means to be a Celtic supporter.

And anybody who doesn't subscribe to it cannot call themselves a proper Celtic supporter.

You aren't a proper Celtic supporter because you haven't a clue about the club's history and values.

Typical rubbish, and more like a so called "left" wingnut version of the half wit gers. None of which has to do with actual sport, skill, football or Glasgow Celtic FC.

FTA69

Danzy wrote: »

Electorally the Left might be a thing of the past in most of Europe.

Its vote share is collapsing in many countries and the worst falls are in Working Class areas.

The Left is now a Middle Class project in most places and often a cold house for working class people and views, for all the talk about working class politics etc.

Look at the results from Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy and on and on.

Ironically for the opening post, what did for the Left was the same thing that did for the Church here. The hectoring righteousness, the attitude of anyone who does not agree on anything is a sinning heretic, trying to control what people can say, think and do. The do as I say but not as I do.

Not all in the Left are like that but enough are to cause the whole spectrum problems and they tend to be the more active missionary types so have undue influence.

I think we are rapidly heading towards a Post Left political world, where the Left is consistently a non contender for power or even coalition due to size.

Labour in the UK would disprove your argument, likewise you have things like Podemos in Spain, Sanders in the US and even SF in Ireland. But yeah, a broad left that accepts neo-liberal capitalism and prioritises identity politics will be doomed to failure. People are increasingly sick of the current system and if the left doesn’t respond to their material concerns then they’ll look for someone who does.

hill16bhoy

pablo39er wrote: »

Typical rubbish, and more like a so called "left" wingnut version of the half wit gers. None of which has to do with actual sport, skill, football or Glasgow Celtic FC.

I went to my first Celtic match during the double winning season of 1987/88 and have gone to loads since.

My father was a founder member of the first Celtic Supporters' Club in Dublin.

I'd wager I know a few things more about Celtic, its history and its traditions than you do.

pablo39er

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I went to my first Celtic match during the double winning season of 1987/88 and have gone to loads since.

My father was a founder member of the first Celtic Supporters' Club in Dublin.

I'd wager I know a few things more about Celtic, its history and its traditions than you do.

Dublin ? . . . lol

Zorya

Why are we talking about football?

Danzy

Zorya wrote: »

Why are we talking about football?

He has a point.

What a Scottish Soccer team and whether all of its supporters adopt the free market position on migration that some of its activist fans do, is a long way from whether the Left is driven to attack the Christian foundations of European culture and civilization.

I think that for many in the Left, there is that motivation, they see it, rightly, as the corner stone of Western values and culture and that to aim at that is pulling out a key support.

I, personally, would see Marxism as coming from that same tradition.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Zorya wrote: »

Why are we talking about football?

Anything Celtic-related outside of Glasgow has a reasonable chance of javing nothing to do with football.

dr.fuzzenstein

Danzy wrote: »

He has a point.

What a Scottish Soccer team and whether all of its supporters adopt the free market position on migration that some of its activist fans do, is a long way from whether the Left is driven to attack the Christian foundations of European culture and civilization.

I think that for many in the Left, there is that motivation, they see it, rightly, as the corner stone of Western values and culture and that to aim at that is pulling out a key support.

I, personally, would see Marxism as coming from that same tradition.

Yes, some of us don't believe that there is an old dude with white hair and a long beard who sits on a cloud watching us masturbate or go to the toilet.
Some of us have moved past a book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of stoned shepherds.
Ironic also that the very people who fervently and slavishly adhere to this mumbo jumbo would definitely not welcome the very people who wrote this book, because they would definitely be the wrong shade of brown and have long hair and beards.
Maybe drag your collective arses out of the middle ages and maybe at least past the Renaissance.
Some of us do live in the 21st century.

Ruraldweller56

> Talks about "proper Celtic supporters"

> puts up montage of pictures including one where a bunch of self appointed moral custodians of the Celtic supporter's groups brought a GTF banner to a game directed at arguably our best player because he doesn't subscribe to some sh!tlib value system.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Celtic is a unique entity. It isn't a merely a club, it was founded as a mass movement to support immigrants.

Respect and support for immigrants is a core value of what it means to be a Celtic supporter.

And anybody who doesn't subscribe to it cannot call themselves a proper Celtic supporter.

You aren't a proper Celtic supporter because you haven't a clue about the club's history and values.

Ruraldweller56

Danzy wrote: »

He has a point.

What a Scottish Soccer team and whether all of its supporters adopt the free market position on migration that some of its activist fans do, is a long way from whether the Left is driven to attack the Christian foundations of European culture and civilization.

I think that for many in the Left, there is that motivation, they see it, rightly, as the corner stone of Western values and culture and that to aim at that is pulling out a key support.

I, personally, would see Marxism as coming from that same tradition.

Correct. They live in one of the freeest, comfortable, richest countries in the world. Although they'd prefer to believe otherwise.

Given to them by (in the majority of cases) by white Christians.