2018 DCM (& Limerick & Berlin) Graduates Log: How far can we go?

OOnegative

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

See, if you were on strava ........:D

Precious little in my case, but have great plans for Saturday after my office party.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

There wasn't for 2 weeks for me, but got a run done tonight and all good!

I'll be back with questions as I get back into it, no doubt ðŸ˜

eyrie

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

No! Not for me anyway But I'm going back to the physio next week and hopefully after that it might be a different story and I'll have something to post about :P

Rossi7

4th run since DCM last Saturday doing Jingle Bells, dragged myself around purely to get the mug. Getting a lot of work done at home before xmas so I'll be ticking over til the New Year. I'll try start the base plan next week

aloooof

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

Another on the physio table here, at the moment. Almost 4 weeks into a 6-8 week suggested lay off, but after that I'll definitely have questions about your tempo's vs threshold's etc.

Huzzah!

Just keeping things ticking over this week. Notions of a tempo parkrun on Sunday but the party tonight might make me change my mind when the alarm goes off tomorrow morning.

Hedgehoggy

Still running here - but definitely not getting in the miles I had hoped to get in before the end of the year. Hopefully, I'll be able to do some longer runs when I finally get to the Christmas break.

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

OOnegative

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

Yip, you may as well quit now........

Joking aside, i’ll give my take on that, you have spent the last 4-5 months running slow miles minus any real speed work. Your body is used to the slow miles at this stage, so that Jingle Bells 5k isn’t a true reflection of what your capable of over 5k. Get more speed sessions into the legs and then run a 5k, bet the 5k time won’t line up with that 10k time then.

You have far from plateaued, years of progress yet, be patient about it.

Hedgehoggy

OOnegative wrote: »

Yip, you may as well quit now........

Joking aside, i’ll give my take on that, you have spent the last 4-5 months running slow miles minus any real speed work. Your body is used to the slow miles at this stage, so that Jingle Bells 5k isn’t a true reflection of what your capable of over 5k. Get more speed sessions into the legs and then run a 5k, bet the 5k time won’t line up with that 10k time then.

You have far from plateaued, years of progress yet, be patient about it.

Thanks - yes, will def have to get some speed work in!! There have been a good few times lately when I feel I am running fast only to find out after that my pace was slower than MP!!

Swashbuckler

Hedgehoggy wrote:

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

I'd agree with what B said but also remember progress isn't always measured in times. All that marathon training has built up a huge base. You're progress has been on the endurance side. Complement that with some training for shorter stuff and you should see gains.

Swashbuckler

Which, after reading back, is exactly what B said anyway. Lol

Hedgehoggy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Which, after reading back, is exactly what B said anyway. Lol

Thanks.I actually hadn't thought of it like that. My endurance is way way btr. Maybe I was a bit ambitious with my goal time too and need to think about taking smaller chunks off time off gradually. I would love to one day go sub 20. Think that will be a long term goal!

Huzzah!

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Still running here - but definitely not getting in the miles I had hoped to get in before the end of the year. Hopefully, I'll be able to do some longer runs when I finally get to the Christmas break.

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

One of my goals for 2019 is to get my shorter distance times to scale up. I find calculators quite inaccurate because I'm lacking in endurance. I'd love to be able to run the 10k time that my 5k time predicts.

OOnegative

Huzzah! wrote: »

One of my goals for 2019 is to get my shorter distance times to scale up. I find calculators quite inaccurate because I'm lacking in endurance. I'd love to be able to run the 10k time that my 5k time predicts.

You’ll get that the less ‘elite’ say you are, my 5k PB puts me down as as a sub 3 marathon runner(yeah right!!). The faster you are the more times on those calculators add up from my experience, I tend to only use them for training paces and ignore them otherwise as there not good for the ego sometimes.

gypsylee

I've signed up for a Winter Group Run Training 12 Week Block starting on the 7th of January. Three times a week. It's for runners to build their distance and speed. Its the speed part I am interested in as hoping to improve my 5k and 10k times in 2019.

Applegirl26

gypsylee wrote: »

I've signed up for a Winter Group Run Training 12 Week Block starting on the 7th of January. Three times a week. It's for runners to build their distance and speed. Its the speed part I am interested in as hoping to improve my 5k and 10k times in 2019.

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

Mr. Guappa

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

I wouldn't worry about the longest runs being "only" 3 hours. The plan is not about just about any single run, it's about the accumulated miles over each week meaning you'll be running that 3 hours on tired legs. I don't know enough to even suggest any other plans, and I guess a big selling point for the grads plans is that people here will have more familiarity with them and so might be able to offer more detailed advice, maybe?

Huzzah!

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

This is a big reason I didn't participate on the Novices thread: my LSRs for Berlin topped out at three hours/16 miles. I was nervous that seeing all of you running big long runs at the weekend would put me on edge.

It wasn't a problem for me at all on the day. As Mr Guappa says, it's not about any single run, really; it's about the accumulated miles in your legs over the duration of the plan. My plan said that the LSR would replicate the end of the marathon because of the cumulative fatigue. I didn't really believe this but it wasn't that far off.

I guess it depends on how much of a psychological boost you would get from covering the extra miles in training.

Applegirl26

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the longest runs being "only" 3 hours. The plan is not about just about any single run, it's about the accumulated miles over each week meaning you'll be running that 3 hours on tired legs. I don't know enough to even suggest any other plans, and I guess a big selling point for the grads plans is that people here will have more familiarity with them and so might be able to offer more detailed advice, maybe?

Thanks A. Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking too. I remember the mentors discussing how some recommend not to go over 3hours in a training run as after that the negatives outweigh the positives. My longest training runs for dcm often went to four hours and more. I remember feeling wiped out after them, even after the taper I still felt exhausted tbh. The 3 hour long run might be the way to go so. Thanks.

Applegirl26

Huzzah! wrote: »

This is a big reason I didn't participate on the Novices thread: my LSRs for Berlin topped out at three hours/16 miles. I was nervous that seeing all of you running big long runs at the weekend would put me on edge.

It wasn't a problem for me at all on the day. As Mr Guappa says, it's not about any single run, really; it's about the accumulated miles in your legs over the duration of the plan. My plan said that the LSR would replicate the end of the marathon because of the cumulative fatigue. I didn't really believe this but it wasn't that far off.

I guess it depends on how much of a psychological boost you would get from covering the extra miles in training.

Thanks so much for the reply Huzzah! By my own choice I went up to 22 miles in training for dcm, thinking it would give me a psychological edge on the day. It did to some degree but I also got tired very early so it backfired on me really. Though running for just 3 hours does make me panic a bit too! Ha!

Testosterscone

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

The long run always seems to be a bit of a stickler for people but if you ask any elites would they do a 30-40 mile run as part of a long run they would flat out refuse for fear of injury. These are folks running 100-120 mpw so are well conditioned.

The thing is at there average pace would bring them in around that 3 hr mark so why would we ask a beginner to do the same without years of mileage under there belt.

Similarly we wouldn’t ask ultra runners to do 70 mile long runs to prepare for a 100 mile ultra.

Most people run too long for their long run to condition them to tolerate the distance rather than improve running fitness. There can be a little overlap here but they are not the same thing.

Applegirl26

Testosterscone wrote: »

The long run always seems to be a bit of a stickler for people but if you ask any elites would they do a 30-40 mile run as part of a long run they would flat out refuse for fear of injury. These are folks running 100-120 mpw so are well conditioned.

The thing is at there average pace would bring them in around that 3 hr mark so why would we ask a beginner to do the same without years of mileage under there belt.

Similarly we wouldn’t ask ultra runners to do 70 mile long runs to prepare for a 100 mile ultra.

Most people run too long for their long run to condition them to tolerate the distance rather than improve running fitness. There can be a little overlap here but they are not the same thing.

Thanks for the reply testosterscone. Having taken a different approach for dcm, I'm happy to try something new this time. I totally see the reasoning behind maxing the long run at 3 hours and I'll work hard to increase up my weekly mileage in general.

Aoifemcc19

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply testosterscone. Having taken a different approach for dcm, I'm happy to try something new this time. I totally see the reasoning behind maxing the long run at 3 hours and I'll work hard to increase up my weekly mileage in general.

Will be dying to see how you get on with the maxing at 3 hours!! I did the 22 miler in training for DCM but was happy I did on the day felt it stood to me but if capping long runs at 3 miles works then I could totally cope with that!! :cool:

Well done on your training, you are going great guns!! I'm doing 3 runs a week until the end of the year with two S&C sessions in gym and I'll get my head around a plan after Christmas!

Applegirl26

Aoifemcc19 wrote: »

Will be dying to see how you get on with the maxing at 3 hours!! I did the 22 miler in training for DCM but was happy I did on the day felt it stood to me but if capping long runs at 3 miles works then I could totally cope with that!! :cool:

Well done on your training, you are going great guns!! I'm doing 3 runs a week until the end of the year with two S&C sessions in gym and I'll get my head around a plan after Christmas!

Thanks Aoife. Your 22 miler inspired me to do mine!

Strawberry Swan

Week 1 of Base training done. Only got in 3 easy runs rather than 4 and no long run. Was feeling extremely fatigued all this week after the Jingle Bells 5k. And my chest felt tired too so decided best not push it. Slept and rested loads and feeling much better now.

Something I've been wondering about. Dunno if there's a definite answer. I was talking to a guy before the JB race and he was saying he pukes a lot in training and racing. Lovely I know but gotta admire the dedication! I've never puked or felt like it. When I'm pushing myself as hard as I can my breathing is extremely laboured and eventually I start to choke a bit so need to pull back to get breaths in again. I cant imagine going any faster as my breathing just wont allow it. Does not puking mean I'm not pushing myself as hard as I could be? Honest opinions are welcome.

Testosterscone

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

Week 1 of Base training done. Only got in 3 easy runs rather than 4 and no long run. Was feeling extremely fatigued all this week after the Jingle Bells 5k. And my chest felt tired too so decided best not push it. Slept and rested loads and feeling much better now.

Something I've been wondering about. Dunno if there's a definite answer. I was talking to a guy before the JB race and he was saying he pukes a lot in training and racing. Lovely I know but gotta admire the dedication! I've never puked or felt like it. When I'm pushing myself as hard as I can my breathing is extremely laboured and eventually I start to choke a bit so need to pull back to get breaths in again. I cant imagine going any faster as my breathing just wont allow it. Does not puking mean I'm not pushing myself as hard as I could be? Honest opinions are welcome.

I used to puke regularly mid session (nothing like a 1 min recovery for 400s being hunched over in the infield)

I then stopped eating so close to training. It’s not always about effort and likewise not every session should be gut wrenching I have improved more since I stopped doing every session flat out. Focus on the aim of the workout and the graduates plan should have very little ball busting work

juke

Adding myself to the 'used to run occasionally, now hobble a lot' list. I'm even skipping the gym

Niggly knee. Very similar in feeling to an old injury, but I'm not feeling improvement with exercises given then. I'll give it another couple of days before I make a physio call.

I can't say I'm too gutted, listening to the howling wind outside. Anybody else dreaming of the sweltering humid days of the summer?

eyrie

juke wrote: »

Adding myself to the 'used to run occasionally, now hobble a lot' list. I'm even skipping the gym

Niggly knee. Very similar in feeling to an old injury, but I'm not feeling improvement with exercises given then. I'll give it another couple of days before I make a physio call.

Ah crap

eyrie

I made it out for an actual run yesterday - all of 3 miles and slower than I've run in about a year so it was a bit horrifying but aside from the lack of fitness it was lovely to be out for a run. Back to the physio tomorrow for my follow up so we'll see what happens!