2018 DCM (& Limerick & Berlin) Graduates Log: How far can we go?

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

Thanks for setting this up and for taking us under your wing 00negative . I've been a bit lost and haphazard of late with running so looking forward to ticking runs off a color coded spreadsheet.

A: What are your next goals?
Run clare series 5k, 5m, 10k, 10m.
Kinvara 10k.
Galway 5k series.
Killarney half in July DCM19. And hopefully another half or two thrown in along the way


B: What type of training do you intend to do over the winter? Currently doing 5k 3 times a week. But looking forward to following a plan again but unsure which one?!


C: Where do you hope to see yourself to be in 12 months with your running? I want to consistently run a sub 25 min 5k. My PB is 24.07 but that was by pure chance. A sub 55 min 10k and knock 16 mins off my DCM time of 4.46

No run is pure chance. That's an insight into your capability. You can't run a time if your body hasn't the ability to do it. If it can be done once it can be done again. You should be looking sub 24 and sub 50!!

coogy

OOnegative wrote: »

I would use your most recent race, if that’s DCM then that gives you the truest reflection of what paces you should be using for the plan. That would be my interpretation anyway.

Hmmm....I was kind of hoping to not use my DCM time, considering how it all went south in the second half.........:o

Was going to go with my half marathon time from earlier in the year as I feel that is a more accurate reflection of where I'm at.

Helenasca

skyblue46 wrote:

No run is pure chance. That's an insight into your capability. You can't run a time if your body hasn't the ability to do it. If it can be done once it can be done again. You should be looking sub 24 and sub 50!!

Whoa thanks for the vote of confidence Sean but I dunno now about that. I'd love to get back to that fitness again but 24.07 is the only time I've ever ran sub 25 mins for a 5k. And a sub 50 10k wow I couldn't even imagine that but I'm definitely willing to give it a shot.

Bring it on

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

Whoa thanks for the vote of confidence Sean but I dunno now about that. I'd love to get back to that fitness again but 24.07 is the only time I've ever ran sub 25 mins for a 5k. And a sub 50 10k wow I couldn't even imagine that but I'm definitely willing to give it a shot.

Bring it on

It doesn't matter if it's the only time you did it. Running isn't darts...you can't close your eyes and get a lucky bullseye! If you did it once you can do it again!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Hmmm....I was kind of hoping to not use my DCM time, considering how it all went south in the second half.........:o

Was going to go with my half marathon time from earlier in the year as I feel that is a more accurate reflection of where I'm at.

I'll go totally off beam here.. use your 5k time!

The one thing I will say though is that if you believe in a plan, stick to it. I know you have looked at the plans and the pace calculator and none of your recent runs match the recommended paces based on any race you have done. Trust the plan...it will bring you on so much.

El CabaIIo

juke wrote: »

So, paces.

I have a few questions

Using the calculator, we work off our most recent 5k time, I understand.

The plans uses a few different terms though. Where does 'hard' fall on the table terms?
And recovery? I'm guessing very easy?
MP, based off the table - or actual DCM pace?

Very Easy |Easy |Easy/Moderate|Moderate|Easy Tempo|Tempo

Threshold|CV|Aerobic Power|V.O2 Max|Anaerobic Endurance|Anaerobic Power|Speed Endurance|Speed

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think. So if you have a workout @CV pace, just refer to the calculator and look under the 1000m heading for pace if you use Km or the 1600m for miles across from that intensity. The same for moderate and tempo and all that other stuff.

I'm not sure where it says hard on the plan, if you give me the section of the plan and the week where it says that, I might be able to help you out on that.

skyblue46

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think. So if you have a workout @CV pace, just refer to the calculator and look under the 1000m heading for pace if you use Km or the 1600m for miles across from that intensity. The same for moderate and tempo and all that other stuff.

I'm not sure where it says hard on the plan, if you give me the section of the plan and the week where it says that, I might be able to help you out on that.

Week 3 of the base plan is a few reps of 9 mins easy, 1 minute hard. I can't remember but I think I did 5k pace for that.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Week 3 of the base plan is a few reps of 9 mins easy, 1 minute hard. I can't remember but I think I did 5k pace for that.

I'd go so far as to say the watch won't give you any useful information in such a short window so ignore the pace and the watch and just go good old fashioned hard.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'd go so far as to say the watch won't give you any useful information in such a short window so ignore the pace and the watch and just go good old fashioned hard.

I'd agree...but remember not so hard that much recovery is needed as you are straight to easy pace afterwards. You'll figure out what you can do very quickly.

El CabaIIo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Week 3 of the base plan is a few reps of 9 mins easy, 1 minute hard. I can't remember but I think I did 5k pace for that.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'd go so far as to say the watch won't give you any useful information in such a short window so ignore the pace and the watch and just go good old fashioned hard.

Wouldn't go wrong with either approach I'd say as long as hard isn't a blowing hard and struggling through the 1 minute reps kind of hard.

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'll go totally off beam here.. use your 5k time!

The one thing I will say though is that if you believe in a plan, stick to it. I know you have looked at the plans and the pace calculator and none of your recent runs match the recommended paces based on any race you have done. Trust the plan...it will bring you on so much.

I’ll go with what you say as you’ve used the plan, but many would not be in there 5k PB shape currently and would be chasing fitness rather working off there current level if they used there 5k PB? I’d be conservative for the first few weeks with paces if doing this.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

I’ll go with what you say as you’ve used the plan, but many would not be in there 5k PB shape currently and would be chasing fitness rather working off there current level if they used there 5k PB? I’d be conservative for the first few weeks with paces if doing this.

I checked paces with my parkrun 2 weeks before DCM and verified it against my 10 mile time done maybe a month before that..seemed to weigh up much the same.

I don't know if that is in any way useful info but thought I'd share what I did!

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Hmmm....I was kind of hoping to not use my DCM time, considering how it all went south in the second half.........:o

Was going to go with my half marathon time from earlier in the year as I feel that is a more accurate reflection of where I'm at.

When i’ve used prediction calculators it’s always been my most recent raced time. Like everyone else here i’m starting a plan this week and have 200’s planned this morning, i’ll be using my marathon time from Cologne as my guide. Granted things went tits up for you in the second half of DCM, if using your half time as a predictor err on the side of cautious I would say for first two/three weeks. Don’t want anyone getting injured.

OOnegative

Maybe to clear up some confusion on what time to use off the pace predictor folks, use the most recent 5k/10k time you ran prior to DCM. Take it easy the first few weeks just to get the body used to some faster running like the 60 min progression run. As i’v already stated I don’t want anyone getting injured by running to fast. Plenty of time for that down the line during races.

juke

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think. So if you have a workout @CV pace, just refer to the calculator and look under the 1000m heading for pace if you use Km or the 1600m for miles across from that intensity. The same for moderate and tempo and all that other stuff.

I'm not sure where it says hard on the plan, if you give me the section of the plan and the week where it says that, I might be able to help you out on that.

Thanks El C.

Saturday Week 3 of the base plan says 50 min mix (9 min easy/1 min hard)

Huzzah!

It's great to see this thread get off to such a good start.

I've about 5 weeks of base building done. I was thinking of doing a slightly speedier session tonight in advance of Jingle Bells. Should I pick one from the 5k plan? I really like the following session before a race, which is from a previous Testosterscone Grads Plan: 1, 2, 3, 2, 1 minutes at race effort with equal recoveries. Would that be okay or does anyone have any suggestions?

skyblue46

Huzzah! wrote: »

It's great to see this thread get off to such a good start.

I've about 5 weeks of base building done. I was thinking of doing a slightly speedier session tonight in advance of Jingle Bells. Should I pick one from the 5k plan? I really like the following session before a race, which is from a previous Testosterscone Grads Plan: 1, 2, 3, 2, 1 minutes at race effort with equal recoveries. Would that be okay or does anyone have any suggestions?

I always found the 6 X 1 minute at vo2 Max off 2 minute recoveries to be a great sharpener before the shorter races. The 12321 sounds good too.

Huzzah!

skyblue46 wrote: »

I always found the 6 X 1 minute at vo2 Max off 2 minute recoveries to be a great sharpener before the shorter races. The 12321 sounds good too.

That's what I'd actually programmed into the Garmin but was second guessing myself. Thanks.

Swashbuckler

One thing that is drilled into Novices is to mind your pacing. One of the best things you can learn as Grads now is to start trying to dial into effort. It's easy get caught up in 'I must run x pace for y number of minutes as that's what's in my plan' but the reality is running by feel is worth learning and will help you a lot with racing. For the prescribed session above I'd guess Testosterscone chose the word Hard for a reason and didn't mention a pace. Ignore the watch. Run each rep hard enough that you can complete the session but not so hard that your blasted after one rep. Don't look at the watch. Focus on holding your form and getting good turnover.

Testosterscone

Swashbuckler wrote: »

One thing that is drilled into Novices is to mind your pacing. One of the best things you can learn as Novices now is to start trying to dial into effort. It's easy get caught up in 'I must run x pace for y number of minutes as that's what's in my plan' but the reality is running by feel is worth learning and will help you a lot with racing. For the prescribed session above I'd guess Testosterscone chose the work Hard for a reason and didn't mention a pace race. Ignore the watch. Run each rep hard enough that you can complete the session but not so hard that your blasted after one rep. Don't look at the watch. Focus on holding your form and getting good turnover.

Gold star.

This is more about getting a bit more dialed into effort. Don't worry about pace. This should be as hard as you can go without straining. You have 9 min of easy running after each bout so it shouldn't feel like a taxing workout it is simply getting you touching on running fast but controlled.

You should always approach sessions with the mantra "train don't strain" Majority of us don't need to get faster (if you don't believe me go down to your local track and run a flat out 200m and then compare that to your average pace for a mile or 5km) its all about getting the body more comfortable at tolerating the paces.

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

The progression run as I would do it is would start 15mins Easy, 15 mins Easy-Steady, 15 mins Steady and finally 15 mins MP. Try and keep the paces as consistent as possible would be best but may take a few tries to get used to that.

Ha, I managed that by fluke so :pac:

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

One thing that is drilled into Novices is to mind your pacing. One of the best things you can learn as Novices now is to start trying to dial into effort. It's easy get caught up in 'I must run x pace for y number of minutes as that's what's in my plan' but the reality is running by feel is worth learning and will help you a lot with racing. For the prescribed session above I'd guess Testosterscone chose the work Hard for a reason and didn't mention a pace race. Ignore the watch. Run each rep hard enough that you can complete the session but not so hard that your blasted after one rep. Don't look at the watch. Focus on holding your form and getting good turnover.

Given 'I must run x pace for y number of minutes' is already a challenge, I like the idea of ignoring the watch.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Gold star.

This is more about getting a bit more dialed into effort. Don't worry about pace. This should be as hard as you can go without straining. You have 9 min of easy running after each bout so it shouldn't feel like a taxing workout it is simply getting you touching on running fast but controlled.

You should always approach sessions with the mantra "train don't strain" Majority of us don't need to get faster (if you don't believe me go down to your local track and run a flat out 200m and then compare that to your average pace for a mile or 5km) its all about getting the body more comfortable at tolerating the paces.

Perfect, thanks all.

coogy

Ran today at 45 mins very easy pace. Now THAT was a challenge!!!

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Ran today at 45 mins very easy pace. Now THAT was a challenge!!!

It will stand to you in the long run, believe me. Hasn’t done skyblue46 any harm!!!

coogy

OOnegative wrote: »

It will stand to you in the long run, believe me. Hasn’t done skyblue46 any harm!!!

For sure!
Took about 10/15 minutes of thinking "hang on a minute........." but eventually settled into a rhythm and thought no more of it for the rest of the run.

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

Ran today at 45 mins very easy pace. Now THAT was a challenge!!!

If it makes you feel any better, around 75-80% of my weekly mileage is roughly at a pace at least 2min15s slower than my 10k pace. Easy miles are the key!

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

If it makes you feel any better, around 75-80% of my weekly mileage is roughly at a pace at least 2min15s slower than my 10k pace. Easy miles are the key!

And as a percentage I think that's about 35% slower.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

And as a percentage I think that's about 35% slower.

Had to get the calculator out. Either I'm bad at maths or youre slagging my 10k time. Haha

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Had to get the calculator out. Either I'm bad at maths or youre slagging my 10k time. Haha

Ok 37.9%!!! Haha. Either way it illustrates how much slower your easy pace is...and very easy/recovery would be slower again.

Mr. Guappa

Great to have this thread up and running, and huge thanks to OOnegative for coming onboard to guide us. Thanks also to juke for taking the initiative and getting the ball rolling. As a group we made great strides over the past 6 months during DCM training, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's story develop over the next year.

A: What are your next goals?
So far, I'm signed up for 2 races next year - DCM and the Dungaravn 10 miler in February. Before that, there is a 4 mile race in Clonmel on Stephen's Day that I'm looking forward to, and a few more 5km and 10km races between then and the start of DCM '19 training.

B: What type of training do you intend to do over the winter?
I've taken it pretty handy over the past month since DCM (31 total miles, mainly easy to very easy, plus one parkrun last weekend), but I'll kick off the base building plan next week, and then the 5k/10k plan off the back of that.

C: Where do you hope to see yourself to be in 12 months with your running?
I'd like to run consistently for the next year, and to still enjoy running coming next December. Smashing PB's is obviously a goal, but that will hopefully be a by-product of good, consistent running. I've learned so much about running over the past 6 months or so, and I'd just like to continue adding to that knowledge base.

OOnegative

Anyone racing Jingle Bells on Saturday?