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2018 DCM (& Limerick & Berlin) Graduates Log: How far can we go?

juke

As our treasured novices thread is unstickied, it’s time for us graduates to pull up our big girl/boy pants and embrace the bigger world of running.

We are a mixed bunch of runners, all ages, all speeds, all keen to move on and progress after the superb mentoring of ariana`and her backroom team of Kellygirl & skyblue46. They were consistently amazing.

Our first marathon has had a huge impact on our lives, taking over every spare moment as the weeks grew closer, the distances longer, until ultimately, that precious medal was put around our necks. Now that it’s over, I think it’s fair to say, we all need some structure, guidance and motivation to get us back into the swing of things. I’ve been asked to get things started.

So the graduates plan, devised by Testosterscone, is here
Pacing calculator link

Previous threads are here:

2017 2016 2015 2014 2013

I really hope boards running regulars and elites will click ’follow’ and pop in now and then to check up on us. Most importantly, one super and sound runner has selflessly agreed to take a special interest in us and pass on his wisdom and call us out when we get notions.

I give you OOnegative, running regularly since 2010, has a log here, recent DCM pacer who achieved a marathon PB in Cologne this year in a seriously very impressive 3:15:10. I’d list more of his PB’s if he was on Strava. Maybe we can work on that

In keeping with previous years, a few questions to get us started (flagrantly copy and pasted):

A: What are your next goals?
B: What type of training do you intend to do over the winter?
C: Where do you hope to see yourself to be in 12 months with your running?

Let's get logging!

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Applegirl26

Aoifemcc19 wrote: »

Will be dying to see how you get on with the maxing at 3 hours!! I did the 22 miler in training for DCM but was happy I did on the day felt it stood to me but if capping long runs at 3 miles works then I could totally cope with that!! :cool:

Well done on your training, you are going great guns!! I'm doing 3 runs a week until the end of the year with two S&C sessions in gym and I'll get my head around a plan after Christmas!

Thanks Aoife. Your 22 miler inspired me to do mine!

Aoifemcc19

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply testosterscone. Having taken a different approach for dcm, I'm happy to try something new this time. I totally see the reasoning behind maxing the long run at 3 hours and I'll work hard to increase up my weekly mileage in general.

Will be dying to see how you get on with the maxing at 3 hours!! I did the 22 miler in training for DCM but was happy I did on the day felt it stood to me but if capping long runs at 3 miles works then I could totally cope with that!! :cool:

Well done on your training, you are going great guns!! I'm doing 3 runs a week until the end of the year with two S&C sessions in gym and I'll get my head around a plan after Christmas!

Applegirl26

Testosterscone wrote: »

The long run always seems to be a bit of a stickler for people but if you ask any elites would they do a 30-40 mile run as part of a long run they would flat out refuse for fear of injury. These are folks running 100-120 mpw so are well conditioned.

The thing is at there average pace would bring them in around that 3 hr mark so why would we ask a beginner to do the same without years of mileage under there belt.

Similarly we wouldn’t ask ultra runners to do 70 mile long runs to prepare for a 100 mile ultra.

Most people run too long for their long run to condition them to tolerate the distance rather than improve running fitness. There can be a little overlap here but they are not the same thing.

Thanks for the reply testosterscone. Having taken a different approach for dcm, I'm happy to try something new this time. I totally see the reasoning behind maxing the long run at 3 hours and I'll work hard to increase up my weekly mileage in general.

Testosterscone

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

The long run always seems to be a bit of a stickler for people but if you ask any elites would they do a 30-40 mile run as part of a long run they would flat out refuse for fear of injury. These are folks running 100-120 mpw so are well conditioned.

The thing is at there average pace would bring them in around that 3 hr mark so why would we ask a beginner to do the same without years of mileage under there belt.

Similarly we wouldn’t ask ultra runners to do 70 mile long runs to prepare for a 100 mile ultra.

Most people run too long for their long run to condition them to tolerate the distance rather than improve running fitness. There can be a little overlap here but they are not the same thing.

Applegirl26

Huzzah! wrote: »

This is a big reason I didn't participate on the Novices thread: my LSRs for Berlin topped out at three hours/16 miles. I was nervous that seeing all of you running big long runs at the weekend would put me on edge.

It wasn't a problem for me at all on the day. As Mr Guappa says, it's not about any single run, really; it's about the accumulated miles in your legs over the duration of the plan. My plan said that the LSR would replicate the end of the marathon because of the cumulative fatigue. I didn't really believe this but it wasn't that far off.

I guess it depends on how much of a psychological boost you would get from covering the extra miles in training.

Thanks so much for the reply Huzzah! By my own choice I went up to 22 miles in training for dcm, thinking it would give me a psychological edge on the day. It did to some degree but I also got tired very early so it backfired on me really. Though running for just 3 hours does make me panic a bit too! Ha!

Applegirl26

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the longest runs being "only" 3 hours. The plan is not about just about any single run, it's about the accumulated miles over each week meaning you'll be running that 3 hours on tired legs. I don't know enough to even suggest any other plans, and I guess a big selling point for the grads plans is that people here will have more familiarity with them and so might be able to offer more detailed advice, maybe?

Thanks A. Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking too. I remember the mentors discussing how some recommend not to go over 3hours in a training run as after that the negatives outweigh the positives. My longest training runs for dcm often went to four hours and more. I remember feeling wiped out after them, even after the taper I still felt exhausted tbh. The 3 hour long run might be the way to go so. Thanks.

Huzzah!

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

This is a big reason I didn't participate on the Novices thread: my LSRs for Berlin topped out at three hours/16 miles. I was nervous that seeing all of you running big long runs at the weekend would put me on edge.

It wasn't a problem for me at all on the day. As Mr Guappa says, it's not about any single run, really; it's about the accumulated miles in your legs over the duration of the plan. My plan said that the LSR would replicate the end of the marathon because of the cumulative fatigue. I didn't really believe this but it wasn't that far off.

I guess it depends on how much of a psychological boost you would get from covering the extra miles in training.

Mr. Guappa

Applegirl26 wrote: »

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

I wouldn't worry about the longest runs being "only" 3 hours. The plan is not about just about any single run, it's about the accumulated miles over each week meaning you'll be running that 3 hours on tired legs. I don't know enough to even suggest any other plans, and I guess a big selling point for the grads plans is that people here will have more familiarity with them and so might be able to offer more detailed advice, maybe?

Applegirl26

gypsylee wrote: »

I've signed up for a Winter Group Run Training 12 Week Block starting on the 7th of January. Three times a week. It's for runners to build their distance and speed. Its the speed part I am interested in as hoping to improve my 5k and 10k times in 2019.

That sounds brilliant gypsylee. Let us know how you find it.

I'm now on week 5 of the base building plan and will be starting my proper training for Manchester when that finishes. Super duper excited for it though I'm sure once I'm midway through it, I'll be thinking what the heck have I done here?!

I'm thinking of the beginner grads plan as my current weekly mileage is only 30ish miles. I'm concerned that the longest run is "just" 3 hours and, let's face it, I'll be out there on the day for a lot longer than that! Is there another plan someone could recommend or will I stick to the grads one? Thanks so much.

gypsylee

I've signed up for a Winter Group Run Training 12 Week Block starting on the 7th of January. Three times a week. It's for runners to build their distance and speed. Its the speed part I am interested in as hoping to improve my 5k and 10k times in 2019.

OOnegative

Huzzah! wrote: »

One of my goals for 2019 is to get my shorter distance times to scale up. I find calculators quite inaccurate because I'm lacking in endurance. I'd love to be able to run the 10k time that my 5k time predicts.

You’ll get that the less ‘elite’ say you are, my 5k PB puts me down as as a sub 3 marathon runner(yeah right!!). The faster you are the more times on those calculators add up from my experience, I tend to only use them for training paces and ignore them otherwise as there not good for the ego sometimes.

Huzzah!

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Still running here - but definitely not getting in the miles I had hoped to get in before the end of the year. Hopefully, I'll be able to do some longer runs when I finally get to the Christmas break.

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

One of my goals for 2019 is to get my shorter distance times to scale up. I find calculators quite inaccurate because I'm lacking in endurance. I'd love to be able to run the 10k time that my 5k time predicts.

Hedgehoggy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Which, after reading back, is exactly what B said anyway. Lol

Thanks.I actually hadn't thought of it like that. My endurance is way way btr. Maybe I was a bit ambitious with my goal time too and need to think about taking smaller chunks off time off gradually. I would love to one day go sub 20. Think that will be a long term goal!

Swashbuckler

Which, after reading back, is exactly what B said anyway. Lol

Swashbuckler

Hedgehoggy wrote:

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

I'd agree with what B said but also remember progress isn't always measured in times. All that marathon training has built up a huge base. You're progress has been on the endurance side. Complement that with some training for shorter stuff and you should see gains.

Hedgehoggy

OOnegative wrote: »

Yip, you may as well quit now........

Joking aside, i’ll give my take on that, you have spent the last 4-5 months running slow miles minus any real speed work. Your body is used to the slow miles at this stage, so that Jingle Bells 5k isn’t a true reflection of what your capable of over 5k. Get more speed sessions into the legs and then run a 5k, bet the 5k time won’t line up with that 10k time then.

You have far from plateaued, years of progress yet, be patient about it.

Thanks - yes, will def have to get some speed work in!! There have been a good few times lately when I feel I am running fast only to find out after that my pace was slower than MP!!

OOnegative

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

Yip, you may as well quit now........

Joking aside, i’ll give my take on that, you have spent the last 4-5 months running slow miles minus any real speed work. Your body is used to the slow miles at this stage, so that Jingle Bells 5k isn’t a true reflection of what your capable of over 5k. Get more speed sessions into the legs and then run a 5k, bet the 5k time won’t line up with that 10k time then.

You have far from plateaued, years of progress yet, be patient about it.

Hedgehoggy

Still running here - but definitely not getting in the miles I had hoped to get in before the end of the year. Hopefully, I'll be able to do some longer runs when I finally get to the Christmas break.

I have a question about progress - and my starting point v. where I'm finishing up for the year. I did a 10k at the start of the year, trained for the marathon, and then did the Jingle Bells there last week. When I entered my new 5k time into the mcMillan calculator, it actually gave me my 10k time back - so they line up exactly.

I was wondering if this means I haven't really made any progress - have I plateaued in terms of speed?

Huzzah!

Just keeping things ticking over this week. Notions of a tempo parkrun on Sunday but the party tonight might make me change my mind when the alarm goes off tomorrow morning.

aloooof

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

Another on the physio table here, at the moment. Almost 4 weeks into a 6-8 week suggested lay off, but after that I'll definitely have questions about your tempo's vs threshold's etc.

Rossi7

4th run since DCM last Saturday doing Jingle Bells, dragged myself around purely to get the mug. Getting a lot of work done at home before xmas so I'll be ticking over til the New Year. I'll try start the base plan next week

eyrie

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

No! Not for me anyway

But I'm going back to the physio next week and hopefully after that it might be a different story and I'll have something to post about :P

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

There wasn't for 2 weeks for me, but got a run done tonight and all good!

I'll be back with questions as I get back into it, no doubt ðŸ˜

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

See, if you were on strava ........:D

Precious little in my case, but have great plans for Saturday after my office party.

OOnegative

Very very quiet around here, any running going on at all..........

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

That's grand. Just stay on the plan. Don't chase lost miles. You're moving from sacrificing everything for DCM to incorporating running into your life. Allow for missed runs particularly at this time of the year.

Thanks for the reply S.

I think motivation may be a little on the low side but I'm sure that will pick up once I start entering races in the New Year.......have my eye on a handful already

juke

skyblue46 wrote: »

That's grand. Just stay on the plan. Don't chase lost miles. You're moving from sacrificing everything for DCM to incorporating running into your life. Allow for missed runs particularly at this time of the year.

Thanks for that...I had a fear I'd have a groundhog moment for week 2 for the next month

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Sooooo.......this week did not turn out as planned.

Missed two out of five runs, one of them being a 90 minute easy run yesterday.

What I'm a battling a little with is whether to:

a) continue on with the base plan, as if nothing happened

b) start again

c) wait till the new year

I'll be 100% honest and say that I am very tempted to keep on going, despite missing out on a couple of runs this week, only because of the training I already have behind me. But that may very well be me clutching at straws.......

That's grand. Just stay on the plan. Don't chase lost miles. You're moving from sacrificing everything for DCM to incorporating running into your life. Allow for missed runs particularly at this time of the year.

coogy

Sooooo.......this week did not turn out as planned.

Missed two out of five runs, one of them being a 90 minute easy run yesterday.

What I'm a battling a little with is whether to:

a) continue on with the base plan, as if nothing happened

b) start again

c) wait till the new year

I'll be 100% honest and say that I am very tempted to keep on going, despite missing out on a couple of runs this week, only because of the training I already have behind me. But that may very well be me clutching at straws.......

OOnegative

Well done to all Graduates who raced or PB’d this week. For those who raced, take it handy for first half of the week before you do anything fast paced again.

Silly season is upon us, don’t feel guilty if ye miss runs over this period, you gave enough sacrifice over marathon training to feel bad. Let the hair down if needs be, it’s been well earned. But come this day next month ye all better be on the dry like me!!! Well done folks.