2018 DCM (& Limerick & Berlin) Graduates Log: How far can we go?

OOnegative

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I have a question on the weekend runs. For DCM we would typically have done the long run of a Saturday, with a few recovery miles on the Sunday. The graduate plans on the other hand have a session of some sort on the Saturday (30 min tempo, 4 x 6min @ threshold, etc.) with the long run on the Sunday.

I guess I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind why they are laid out in this way. I think if I understand the why, it helps get me out the door.

The reason for a long run the day after a session is about adaptation. Getting the body/legs used to running long after a session will make legs stronger hopefully making us a better runner. As you get more marathon blocks into your legs the long run will maybe be moved to Sunday and ran after a week of decent mileage, same idea basically as grads plan, adapting the body to run on tired legs making it stronger come marathon day.

Hedgehoggy

OOnegative wrote: »

The reason for a long run the day after a session is about adaptation. Getting the body/legs used to running long after a session will make legs stronger hopefully making us a better runner. As you get more marathon blocks into your legs the long run will maybe be moved to Sunday and ran after a week of decent mileage, same idea basically as grads plan, adapting the body to run on tired legs making it stronger come marathon day.

I had sort of accidentally been doing this in my marathon training block last year. Friday was the only day I could fit in sessions and the long run on the Sunday. Had a day rest in between but always felt I was doing the long run on tired legs and suspected it helped me get stronger

juke

After weeks of hardly any running at all, between Christmas & skiing hols, girl 'flu, knee rehab, I think I'm finally back. Did 60 min easy earlier, and it felt great.

I'm going to start my modified version of base building again tomorrow, hoping there'll be less distractions this time.

OOnegative

juke wrote: »

After weeks of hardly any running at all, between Christmas & skiing hols, girl 'flu, knee rehab, I think I'm finally back. Did 60 min easy earlier, and it felt great.

I'm going to start my modified version of base building again tomorrow, hoping there'll be less distractions this time.

Good stuff, glad to see you back at it. Am sure the girl “flu” was mild compared to its male counterpart!!!

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

Good stuff, glad to see you back at it. Am sure the girl “flu” was mild compared to its male counterpart!!!

Oh, but of course :rolleyes:

Applegirl26

I've a question about how to manage the Raheny race next Sunday, into my plan for the week....
I start week 4 tomorrow, and I have a 90 min progression run due at the weekend. Should I move this to say Wednesday? And then run raheny on Sunday?
Or just omit the progression run, race raheny and add the extra miles onto another day?

I'm also racing trim the following week...

Thank you!

OOnegative

Applegirl26 wrote: »

I've a question about how to manage the Raheny race next Sunday, into my plan for the week....
I start week 4 tomorrow, and I have a 90 min progression run due at the weekend. Should I move this to say Wednesday? And then run raheny on Sunday?
Or just omit the progression run, race raheny and add the extra miles onto another day?

I'm also racing trim the following week...

Thank you!

Drop the progression run and race Raheny, add miles to other runs to get your desired mileage for the week. Regarding Trim the following week, I would drop the mid week CV session and run easy that day. Race Trim with warm up/cool down should bring you 13/14 miles of quality work for the day. Sound reasonable?

Applegirl26

OOnegative wrote: »

Drop the progression run and race Raheny, add miles to other runs to get your desired mileage for the week. Regarding Trim the following week, I would drop the mid week CV session and run easy that day. Race Trim with warm up/cool down should bring you 13/14 miles of quality work for the day. Sound reasonable?

Sounds perfect! Thanks so much.

coogy

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think. So if you have a workout @CV pace, just refer to the calculator and look under the 1000m heading for pace if you use Km or the 1600m for miles across from that intensity. The same for moderate and tempo and all that other stuff.

I feel like every time I post on this thread, I am one step closer to disproving them the term 'there's no such thing as a stupid question'.......

Can I ask why we refer to the 1600m distance on the pacing chart if we are running at CV pace?

Huzzah!

coogy wrote: »

I feel like every time I post on this thread, I am one step closer to disproving them the term 'there's no such thing as a stupid question'.......

Can I ask why we refer to the 1600m distance on the pacing chart if we are running at CV pace?

I think El C was just explaining how to use the calculator to work out the training paces on the plan, with 1,600m being the mile equivalent but there's a mile tab also, so I'm not sure it matters which one you use?

CV was just used as an example, I believe.

coogy

Hi folks, I have some thoughts I'd like to 'get out there', if you like.

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

And one more question.........:rolleyes: once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?


Sorry if any of the above has already been addressed!!!!

ReeReeG

coogy wrote:

And one more question......... once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?

You could take a week between the two plans and race, and have training paces from where you're at then?

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Hi folks, I have some thoughts I'd like to 'get out there', if you like.

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

And one more question.........:rolleyes: once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?


Sorry if any of the above has already been addressed!!!!

1. I wouldn’t take any break at all between plans, your basically building the base currently to start a plan, no break.

2. Regarding racing, I would simply drop one of the sessions that week and replace it with the race. Push other sessions post race out a day maybe to give yourself adequate time to recover.

3. If you haven’t raced since starting the base building plan stick to the paces you have been using for that. Gives you an excuse to race fairly soon into the 10k-Half plan to see where your at.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

1. I wouldn’t take any break at all between plans, your basically building the base currently to start a plan, no break.

Oops 😉

OOnegative

ReeReeG wrote: »

Oops 😉

No, no oops at all. I should have stated that would be my preference. A week between the plans is no harm if that’s what suits, but I wouldn’t leave it any longer than that.

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

No, no oops at all. I should have stated that would be my preference. A week between the plans is no harm if that’s what suits, but I wouldn’t leave it any longer than that.

I would add to this that a week or two between the plans is fine if you are continuing to do a similar level of training and maybe a session or two with your club. I wouldn't take a break though.

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

I wouldn't bother with a break. But as suggested it could be a good opportunity to race something shorter if it suits.

coogy wrote:

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

Regular racing is a good thing as long as it's managed right. 5ks in particular have a reasonably quick recovery time. I wouldn't go racing a load of HM's if you get me.
As Oonegative suggested you can set the week up around the race. For example if it's a Saturday race then you might have easy Monday, tuneup session Tuesday, easy Wednesday and Thursday, rest or shakeout Friday and race Saturday. Long run will suffer that week.

coogy wrote:

And one more question......... once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?

Assuming you don't race between the two plans then I'd be using the base plan paces. But in an ideal world you'd learn by feel if your paces are right or wrong and alter them intuitively

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

But in an ideal world you'd learn by feel if your paces are right or wrong and alter them intuitively

That's something I'm always trying to figure out. I think I'm getting better at it though......

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Regular racing is a good thing as long as it's managed right. 5ks in particular have a reasonably quick recovery time. I wouldn't go racing a load of HM's if you get me.

To me, 5k runs were like "pah"! Now, I totally respect this distance just as much as I do a 10k or 10 mile run. Sure, it's all relative but it requires just as much effort as any other distance IMO.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

I would add to this that a week or two between the plans is fine if you are continuing to do a similar level of training and maybe a session or two with your club. I wouldn't take a break though.

Thanks S. Starting to get back into the groove again!!

coogy

OOnegative wrote: »

1. I wouldn’t take any break at all between plans, your basically building the base currently to start a plan, no break.

2. Regarding racing, I would simply drop one of the sessions that week and replace it with the race. Push other sessions post race out a day maybe to give yourself adequate time to recover.

3. If you haven’t raced since starting the base building plan stick to the paces you have been using for that. Gives you an excuse to race fairly soon into the 10k-Half plan to see where your at.

Thanks for the info, that's a great help!!

OOnegative

Best of luck to any Grads racing Raheny Sunday, have a great race & run well!! Plenty of detail in the reports.

kittyclaws

OOnegative wrote: »

Best of luck to any Grads racing Raheny Sunday, have a great race & run well!! Plenty of detail in the reports.

TLDR version, my running at the minute is not worthy of a full race report!
I'm still recovering from the virus from hell but this race went a lot better than expected I decided to run by feel instead of setting myself a target, I didn't look at my watch once. I was hoping, but not expecting - to come in under the 50 minute mark. Delighted to do it in 48.19.
It wouldn't be a Raheny report without mentioning the goodie bag - wow, definitely the best in the country

My PB from November still stands at 45 mins but hopefully by the Terenure 5 mile I'll be fighting fit to beat it. I'm back at the physio next week so hopefully she'll be able to give me some strengthening exercises, I'm still weak as a kitten, I'm back running and spinning so hopefully weight lifting will follow soon

Mr. Guappa

People talk a lot about maintaining good form when running. I'm trying to better understand what they mean. In my mind (and i could be way off) it's about keeping my back and shoulders upright and looking ahead rather than at the ground, but presumably there's more to it than that?

coogy

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

People talk a lot about maintaining good form when running. I'm trying to better understand what they mean. In my mind (and i could be way off) it's about keeping my back and shoulders upright and looking ahead rather than at the ground, but presumably there's more to it than that?

I'm the same, have been making little tweaks here and there. I've always felt that my strides were possibly a little long when running and I'm not sure if this is something I need to be careful of.

skyblue46

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

People talk a lot about maintaining good form when running. I'm trying to better understand what they mean. In my mind (and i could be way off) it's about keeping my back and shoulders upright and looking ahead rather than at the ground, but presumably there's more to it than that?

They are a few of the basics alright. It's also important to stay relaxed. Don't clench your fists. Keep the shoulders relaxed. Shake out the arms every so often. Make sure to use your arms when you run and try to ensure they swing back and forth, not across your body. Don't let either hand cross the centre line of the body.

Mr. Guappa

skyblue46 wrote: »

They are a few of the basics alright. It's also important to stay relaxed. Don't clench your fists. Keep the shoulders relaxed. Shake out the arms every so often. Make sure to use your arms when you run and try to ensure they swing back and forth, not across your body. Don't let either hand cross the centre line of the body.

That makes sense. I used get pain in my back when running and then I read somewhere that I shouldn't be clenching my fists. Ever since I stopped the fist clenching the back pain has gone away. My arm action could do with a bit of work I'd say, and the centre line tip is something I'll keep an eye on this week. Thanks!

ReeReeG

First of all, well done to all who raced at the weekend! Lots of super performances. I was quite jealous I didn't run Raheny this year!


I'm into week 4 of the grads 5k / 10k plan, and loving it so far I have to say. This week the Wednesday session has minutes at "AP". Is this Aerobic or Anaerobic Power on the runfastcoach calculator? I'd hope Aerobic or else it's hella intense...

skyblue46

ReeReeG wrote: »

First of all, well done to all who raced at the weekend! Lots of super performances. I was quite jealous I didn't run Raheny this year!


I'm into week 4 of the grads 5k / 10k plan, and loving it so far I have to say. This week the Wednesday session has minutes at "AP". Is this Aerobic or Anaerobic Power on the runfastcoach calculator? I'd hope Aerobic or else it's hella intense...

Deep breath and.....relax....its aerobic power :pac:

ReeReeG

skyblue46 wrote:

Deep breath and.....relax....its aerobic power

Goodie! Might be enjoyable in that case!