Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

Options
16465666769

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    So we've gone from you claiming that "The identities of these individuals are never revealed" to now, someone who was identified and interviewed by the Warren Commission - Charles Steele.

    You're clearly just googling this as you go along.

    Also, Oswald got those flyers printed by a company called the Jones Printing Company in New Orleans.

    They had nothing to do with where "CIA-Anti-Cuban groups regularly met". Absolutely nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    People with Lee who are unidentified: Why aren't they found here?

    You have no interest in learning why they are not found here.

    Lee and his accomplices messed up big time. The addresses on the flyers they distributed were changed, and the reason for that is quite clear.

    Oswald was operating out of 554 Camp Street. As a result, the address had to be changed ( too much exposure)

    Oswald seemingly had enough money to cover the cost of printing and renting places, which has never been adequately explained. This raises questions about his source of funding, as it is not readily apparent how he could afford these expenses.

    Jones Company printed a third flyer for Oswald, allegedly, but there is no evidence that those two flyers were printed by the this company before.  I am open to being mistaken, provide your sources on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Yeah so you lied again.

    We've been over this 544 Camp St stuff.

    Oswald never operated out of there. Another pathetic lie from you. But Carlos Bringuier did at one stage. Oswald knew this. He tried to infiltrate Bringuiers anti Castro group to impress the Fair Play for Cuba committee in New York. Theres letters back and forth to prove this.

    He stamped 544 Camp St on some of the flyers. Maybe just one. He didnt get them printed with that address on them. And he did it to provoke Bringuier into a fight in pubic. Which happened and they all got arrested for it. What Oswald wanted.

    Heres Oswald 2 weeks later - because of the publicity he created - in a debate with Bringuier on local radio. WDSU. The same people who filmed him handing out leaflets.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    544 Camp Street was previously home to the Cuban Revolutionary Council (CRC), which was a front organization for the Cuban exiles. The CRC was actively involved in anti-Cuban revolutionary activities and was closely tied to the CIA. The New York branch advised him not to set up a branch and he wrote back saying he was going to do it anyway.

    Oswald's name appears on the flyers, promoting his branch of an organization, with that 544 camp street address. . Why would he go to such lengths to create a false impression and mislead? Promoting his branch as a physical location that does not exist?It appears that he is reciting a script or following a predetermined agenda. This insincerity suggests that Oswald lacks a genuine belief in what he is saying.

    You have no evidence he only printed one flyer with this address, you are only saying it was one in order to try and make it all go away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You clearly havent a clue what youre talking about.

    Go read up a bit about Oswald in New Orleans.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Paraphrasing from de mohrenschildt’s memoir: “ The Jet set, cafe society , Establishment of which I was part are boring the world over, however - Lee was interesting”

    This would be the equivalent of a €500,000 pa AIB managerial type  by chance striking up an association with an €11 an hour shelf stacker in Dunnes stores and finding him interesting & having common cause. 

    De M’s father was apparently saved by the nazis; so he had the mindset of the Gusanos in Florida (who’s families owned sugar plantations in Cuba with virtual slaves and that nasty social justice fella Castro took away all their profitable fun)!

    On paper him & LHO should have nothing in common.

    Other snippets:  Lee - the us is run by the FBI / hoover (said sardonically) in a discussion about living in the US.

    Any gestapo/fbi/cia manager would choose De M as an intermediary in 62 but not one would choose him once they knew what he turned out like after nov 63!

    De M was no doubt a slippery character. But he was persistent as regards the innocence of Oswald. How awkward for the lone gunman theory/conspiracy/theory - the best approach for them being to ignore him & his suicide- it doesn’t fit with the tightly curated evidence presentation as a simple ‘who done it’ episode of Columbo (Peter Falk).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Well he wasnt ignored was he? His testimony to the Warren Commission is nerly 200 pages long.

    Heres 270 pages on him from the HSCA


    And heres 33 pages on him released from the JFK Files

    More here


    Hes one of the most investigated people of the assassination and therefore one of the most ivestigated people in human history!



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    So Moore is confirmed CIA and says he did meet De M many times but not after 1961. I judge Moore & the CIA to be lying about this.

    The files clearly show the CIA using gangsters & crooks  to supply arms to destabilise target countries around the Caribbean. The US gangster state has an advantage of course that it can throw such crooks in prison to avoid paying them for their work.

    This was in one of the files: Dryer said Lancelot said “$250,000 was lodged to a De Mohrenschildt bank account shortly after the assassination”.

    This is just left there without further context or comment by the CIA. This is not helping the official narrative!

    In 1976 the CIA claim they dropped interest in De M in the mid sixties. Again, I say they are lying about that.

    The CIA also admits here that they used De M’s brother Dimitri as a foreign intelligence contact from April 1950. 

    When you add this to their farcical behaviour with the HSCA that Cheerful S pointed out (which they always get away with), in these files, the CIA simply deny they used De M as an intermediary with LHO. 

    Given that the CIA are a pack of lowlife liars, why does anyone take this at face value?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Yes the CIA are a dodgy shower alright. Involved in all sorts of covert actions. And very good at it.

    So, why would the CiA let their chosen assassin carry out the most important assassination in history with a $12 rifle?

    And then allow him to randomly run around Dallas for a couple of hours after? And allow him to be arrested and questioned for 2 days?

    De Mohrenschildt moved to Haiti when Oswald was in New Orleans. Never saw him again and theres no proof he ever spoke to him after that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I don’t think he was one of the assassins. He was planned as the fall guy from the beginning. I would like to know all of 22 - 24 November from his perspective i.e. what did he think was going on that day (there are plenty of theories going back to Garrison). although most of his movements & behaviours are known, not all are. 

    It was a mistake that he survived for 48 hours. No plan works perfectly.

    Isn’t it slightly more than strange that the richest country in history couldn’t tape record or film the many interviews with LHO. Maybe the reason was - what he was saying was  brutally incriminating to the real conspirators! He had to be out of the picture asap!

    Without a fall guy to distract, people would quickly see through whatever farce of a repeatedly botched, repeated cul-de-sac investigation was thrown up to them. That he is still being talked about 60 years later shows what a successful strategy a fall guy was. Having said that, for a 20 year period from the early 80’s only an average of 15% of USians believed the official Lone Gunman theory. This figure is rising lately as young USians don’t know or care who JFK was!

    Yes, as Cheerful said, Paine took over the role from De M after he played his part in helping LHO’s slow journey to the target location.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    If he wasnt one of the assassins why did he bring a rifle to work that day? Why did he flee? Why did he shoot Tippet? Why were his clothes fibres and prints found on the rifle? And the cartridges? How do explain him being the only person on the the 6th floor and 3 people seeing someone firing from the 6th floor window? One of them identifying Oswald etc.

    Theres too much evidence.

    But yeah, police investigation was a shambles but thats how things were done then. Imagine now, the cops parading round a presidential murder weapon in front of the press. A few hours after the shooting. No bag, no gloves.


    Ruth Paine is a wild goose chase imo. No evidence to suggest she was anything but a nice Quaker woman looking out for Marina.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    If the story regarding Oswald's encounter with Bringuier in New Orleans is true, it provides compelling evidence to suggest that Oswald was, indeed, a Machiavellian character. According to this story, Oswald visited the headquarters of a local anti-Castro organization called the DRE (Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil), seemingly offering his assistance in training their operatives. This move suggests that Oswald was actively seeking to involve himself in the anti-Castro-Cuban exile community, aligning himself with a group that shared anti-communist sentiments.

    We are hearing this story from a DRE member, and we know that it was a CIA front controlled by George Joannides. The same individual who the CIA sent to the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations) to stop the investigation into their activities.

    Oswald's actions in supporting the Cuban Revolution movement are highly unconventional and go against American policy on the matter. The official narrative portrays him as a lone individual who has chosen to act independently. It is unusual for someone to go against established policies during this time and take on such a controversial movement without any apparent connection to a larger organization or network that would protect him.

    This flyer handout, which is seemingly spreading his message and ideology, is in direct contradiction to what intelligence agencies would typically like to see. However, it is important to consider the possibility that this could all be part of a carefully crafted, stage-managed event to create a backstory for Oswald.

    In the Oswald story, there are many contradictions; there are bits that would lead you to believe he was a shooter, and there are bits of story that don't make sense. The truth is that no one knows where the full story is; only Oswald knows what he truly did, and he was killed.

    Even more intriguing is Oswald's decision to leave behind incriminating evidence such as rifle shells and the murder weapon. This behavior suggests that Oswald lacked a coherent plan to escape and establish his innocence. Oswald's behavior becomes even more odd when he claims in Dallas jail that he was a patsy and shot nobody.

    Again, it is not a very wise move for someone to leave evidence behind, especially when it links them to the crime. Oswald's actions in this regard raise questions about his intelligence and competence. If he was set up and someone brought all this evidence to TSBD and planted it there, and Oswald was unaware, that could be in support of your fall guy theory.

    The evidence shows that someone did indeed open fire on President Kennedy from behind. This has been confirmed by the presence of wounds on his body. There have been allegations that the autopsy photos and x-rays and the body of John F. Kennedy were tampered with, but based on the evidence currently available, it can be concluded that the shots were fired from the rear.

    Shots came in from behind, so I don’t think you fully rule out the official narrative that Oswald was a shooter. However, I don’t believe he was the only one there that day. There are too many problems with the wounds to Connally and Kennedy to believe it.

    The entry wound on the right shoulder of Connally is a crucial piece of evidence in the ongoing debate surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy. That entry wound is clear evidence that Connally was hit by a different bullet shortly after Kennedy was struggling and lifting his hands up to his throat.Dr. Shaw clearly stated that the wound measured 1.5cm, not 3cm. This clear discrepancy presents an undeniably problematic situation that the "magic bullet" theory fails to adequately explain. The bullet, based on its size, entered the body in a trajectory that was clearly nose-on. This rule out the possibility that the bullet hit any tissue or bone, causing it to flip, tumble, or wobble in any way.

    While the presence of a bullet hole in the back of Kennedy's head does suggest that it was fired from behind, it does not entirely rule out the possibility that two shooters fired at Kennedy at the same time from different locations. It is possible that two shots were fired, one hitting the head in the back and another striking the head from the side. The impact of two bullets hitting the skull smashed it.

    Although throat wound and back wound can be debated too, it is still the Connally entry wound that stands out as the biggest problem here. Connolly's entry wound looks like it was caused by another bullet, so you have another shooter., That's just the reality here. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    The entry wound on the right shoulder of Connally is a crucial piece of evidence in the ongoing debate surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy. That entry wound is clear evidence that Connally was hit by a different bullet shortly after Kennedy was struggling and lifting his hands up to his throat.Dr. Shaw clearly stated that the wound measured 1.5cm, not 3cm. This clear discrepancy presents an undeniably problematic situation that the "magic bullet" theory fails to adequately explain. The bullet, based on its size, entered the body in a trajectory that was clearly nose-on. This rule out the possibility that the bullet hit any tissue or bone, causing it to flip, tumble, or wobble in any way.

    This has been explained to you multiple times. Your suggestion that a wound 1.5 cm long could not be made by a bullet 3cm long tumbling end over end is wrong. And so, it does NOT "rule out the possibility".

    You will ignore this post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Heres the issue with other shots.

    1. There was no one behind the fence. There was no shot from there.
    2. And if there was another shot from the rear, where did it come from?

    One theory, a very early theory, is the Dal-Tex building (To the right of the TSBD here)


    But with 3D digital reconstruction, its impossible given the trajectory of the bullet that hit Connally.


    So, err, can anyone explain this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The statement "There was nobody shooting from there" cannot be definitively proven or disproved, as there are eyewitness accounts that contradict this claim 

    These eyewitnesses have testified that they smelled some gunpowder at street level. Some saw rifle smoke coming from that area of the fence. 

    Others witnessed men behind the fence watching and even reported seeing a man dressed as a businessman fire a rifle before handing it off to someone else dressed as a railroad worker, who then broke down the rifle in seconds and placed it in a bag before walking away in a separate direction. 

    The unexplained disappearance of the man in the grassy knoll area. If he were a law enforcement officer or Secret Service agent, one would expect him to come forward and provide his account of events. The lack of any official response from the individual suggests that he may have been involved in the assassination. The flashing of a badge caused the motorcycle cop to stand down and let them pass, which is unfortunate. The individual likely then blended into the crowd and vanished without a trace. All we know about that.  

    Another reason that shooters behind the fence cannot be ruled out is due to the fact that the original photos and video depicting the grassy knoll show that it was covered by heavy shadows from the foliage and sun. This makes it difficult to see beyond the fence. Additionally, the visibility over the fence is very poor, as can be seen in the NIX film.

    In the NIX film, three men can be seen standing low on the stairs below the picket fence. One of the men, upon witnessing the Kennedy head hit, immediately turns and runs up the steps. He disappears into the shadows, making it difficult to track his movements. He is another person who disappeared after this and is probably the first person to make it in time to see if there were shooters up there. It is not possible to definitively determine whether the person is a mere bystander watching the event or part of the assassination team that would stop people from going up there.

    The map clearly illustrates that there were several buildings within close proximity to the motorcade. These buildings provided the shooter with a clear line of sight and a reasonable opportunity to take aim at Connally.

    Regarding Hoops 66 post,

    Like to share some evidence regarding the bullet trajectory Go ahead. Prepare a crude drawing that will help convey your point here.  

    Dale Myers, Posner, and Lattimer have been claiming for years that the Connally entry wound was 3cm. Dale Myers, Posner, and Lattimer have not updated their incorrect information regarding the Connally entry wound. What does that reveal about them?)One possibility is that they may be intentionally trying to mislead the public and perpetuate false narratives about the Kennedy assassination.

    We know the truth regarding this matter because Nal even posted a diagram that originated from Dale Myers' research, yet the false claim persists. Furthermore, we have Dr. Shaw's testimony, which confirms this is all a lie.


    Why have they not changed their work?

    A 1.5cm hole in President John F. Kennedy's head. Nobody says that bullet tumbling or hits bone or tissue. Why would the Connally wound be different same size.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Theres no one there




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The presence of a tree plays a significant role in obstructing the view behind the fence. The tree's height, size, and foliage all contribute to its effective blocking of the line of sight there.

    The faces of the three men, who were standing in the foreground, appeared to turn almost white, with their faces appearing to be blotchy and distorted. This degradation in quality can be attributed to various factors, such as inadequate lighting conditions, poor camera settings, or an issue with the image capture process or other factors.

    Behind the fence on the other side, there exists an anomaly that resembles the silhouette of a person standing in front of the fence. However, it could also simply be something else not sure what though?The anomaly appears to be standing higher than the picket fence. Either way if it's not anything significant, the tree blocks the view anyway on the other side.

    Havent had much luck so far to see if this anomaly is still there after the shooting. Too much shadow in that area.




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Imagine believing that the CIA would place shooters with high powered rifles in broad daylight 10 feet behind members of the public.

    Now imagine none of those people seeing or hearing anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    They probably used nanothermite bullets. Amazing properties, that stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Heres a photo I took from behind the fence on the knoll. They obviously never show this perspective in the conspiracy books/blogs/docs. They always show it from across the street making everything look further away and apart.

    These people are standing about where the 3 guys are standing in the Nix movie at the time of the headshot.

    Yet they didnt hear or see anything?!


    Zapruder and his assistant Marilyn Sitzman were at the X on the left here. Zapruder was standing on the wall.

    The fence where the shooter apparently was is on the right.

    Yet they also didnt hear or see anyone?!


    Marilyn Sitzman:

    "And I'm sure that if the second shot would have come from a different place—and the supposed theory is they would have been much closer to me and on the right side—I would have heard the sounding of the gun much closer, and I probably had a ringing in my head because the fence was quite close to where we were standing, very close."





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The murder of a president is a highly sensitive and high-stakes endeavor that requires careful planning and consideration. That grassy knoll is an ideal location to place a team. Firstly, it provided an ideal setting for concealment due to its abundance of shadows, bushes, and trees.

    Furthermore, the knoll would allow a hit team to get back on the freeway. first quickly and with a good escape route.

     The presence of multiple yellow curbs only on this side suggests that a deliberate effort was made to mark a specific area. This raises questions as to why such efforts were made to paint only one side of the curbs? Eyewitness accounts further complicate the matter. Reports emerged of individuals claiming to have yellow paint on their shoes, indicating that they may have come into contact with it at some point and was not dry

    Sniper team in the grassy knoll use these yellow markings to delineate when to open fire?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Identifying the sniper team through shadows? How can that be done? We have the NIX film that shows how bad it was.

    In fact, I believe that you have intentionally placed them higher up to pretend that they are much closer to the fence. See it even in NIX film there between the last steps down and the flat area to the next step area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Which is why I said "These people are standing about where the 3 guys are standing in the Nix movie".

    Not exactly. But a few feet away. Do you think that means they cant hear a high powered rifle?

    I didnt place them. They were random people in the background of the photo I took.


    As for this

    Sniper team in the grassy knoll use these yellow markings to delineate when to open fire?

    No. Thats a particularly stupid thing to think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Only one of the three standing people on the stairs has ever been found. Two of them, both men, have never been seen again since this event.That men disappear once the event is over and never heard from again is a mystery in itself. It is incorrect to assume that we have a clear understanding of what they heard. 

    Are you aware of these two men too? Another two disappeared once the event was over.

    Why is it stupid to think when there blotches of yellow only on one side of the street and all in that area where Kennedy and Connally got shot?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    One of those men sitting down has been found. The guy on the right. Louie Witt. Also known as Umbrella Man.

    People not being identified and not coming forward isnt a mystery. People who have come forward in later years said they didnt at the time out of fear in case it was a conspiracy. Didnt want to get wrapped up in it.

    Also theres about 10 sections of painted yellow curbs in Dealey Plaza. Thats why its a stupid theory.

    But good to know the Dallas city road workers are in on the assassination too! Add them to the list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Umbrella Man was dressed in all black and had an umbrella with him and a large black hat. 

    Thinking the changed clothes or something? it is clear that neither of the two men is the umbrella man.

    It is evident that this event was a coup. The evidence at the scene points towards a clear case of tampering, with individuals seen collecting items and stuffing them into their pockets.





  • Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    The HSCA proved it was Umbrella man through enhanced photos. 45 years ago.

    Im kinda done going back and forth with idiotic tidbits you've just googled.

    Saying things like "It is evident that this event was a coup" is the height of stupidity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Note how it's always "can't explain this to me, therefore conspiracy".

    Never "here is the supporting evidence".

    Denial based shenanigans over and over again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,727 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The assassination of John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, was undoubtedly a coup against the president. Evidence suggests that there was a deliberate effort to undermine his security.

    One significant detail that stands out in this regard is the Secret Service's directive to stay away from the side of the presidential limousine. Furthermore, there was evidence of laziness and negligence in the way the streets were controlled on the day of the assassination. The presence of strangers in the area where Kennedy was assassinated is a cause for concern. It suggests that there may be individuals present who are not authorized to be there. That we had strangers flashing fake badges in the grassy knoll is evidence that there were people there conducting a covert operation.

    We also have a group of individuals dressed in business attire who are tampering with evidence and placing items in their pockets without reporting any findings. The question is, what evidence did this blonde man in the business suit find on the ground, but there is no record?

    The doctors who worked at Parkland Hospital in Dallas, Texas, where Kennedy was pronounced dead, described what they perceived as a "large and gaping wound" in the back of his head. In contrast, the autopsy photos and X-rays taken during the official medical examination of Kennedy's body do not show any signs of a massive blast hole. The central claim of the Parkland Hospital conspiracy theory is that all the doctors at the hospital, including most well known ones, Dr. Earl Rose, Dr. Robert McClelland, and Dr. Charles James Carrico, suffered from mass delusion here?

    One of the key things supporting a coup is the medical evidence. If these doctors are indeed telling the truth, it would indicate that the government operatives involved in this situation fabricated or altered the medical evidence released.

    For several decades, there has been a persistent attempt to manipulate the Connally wound size to suit specific agendas or narratives. This fabrication has been perpetuated through various debunking channels.

    End of day, I have no qualms with Oswald's alleged act of firing a rifle. However, I do not buy the official explanation that he operated alone. There is overwhelming evidence that he was a CIA asset, which raises important questions about his role on that day. The details of what Oswald actually did are probably known only to a select few.

    That is not true about the HSCA identifying him with photographs.  A journalist, determined to uncover the truth, managed to track down Witt after someone gave that journalist the name. He then showed up in the HSCA with a bizarre claim was targeting Kennedy over something his father did. To believe WITT's version of the event? Or was just another person brought in to confuse?



Advertisement