Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

Options
16465676970

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    This is really quite funny. Watching someone, who doesn't seem to have read (only "excerpts") any of the books on the subject but has obviously read a lot of conspiracy stuff about it, trying to argue with someone who is clearly very well-read on the subject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Good interview here with Ruth Paine.

    FYI she got Oswald the job a month before the motorcade was even agreed, never mind the route.




  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Too busy reading about the (‘under democratic control’) CIA’s Project Artichoke (for which the permitted exposure of MKULTRA helped keep hidden for longer). Who would object to having mind control experiments done on them, without their knowledge, that drive them insane & cause some to commit suicide. Same barbaric biochemistry still going on in Camp Detrick. Democratic countries are fascinating don’t you think?

    What I have found out is that Mary Meyer may represent one of the invisible borders of the lone gunman theory that its defenders treat as a no-mans land for some reason. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti



    Yes, she wouldn’t have known about the presidential visit or route. Edit: To clarify, its not to imply she is involved in any way in the plot. It is only that she is an obedient cog to the establishment, she is the type that believes the US foreign policy can do no wrong or domestic police can do no wrong and her laugh about the Oliver Stone film was cringe.

    Once Oswald was in place the route could easily be tailored to his location.

    Chicago & Tampa would have been prepared & ready with a similar but different set of characters. If they were used we’d never have heard of LHO or Paine.

    Contrary to her claiming they were looking for an American to accuse of surveillance in Nicaragua, she drew attention to herself by inappropriately making copious notes at meetings of every organisation name, leadership names & other useful information and brought a photographer who took photos of everyone. It later turned out the organisation that sent her didn’t request or know anything about a photographer (first paragraph).


    Post edited by Lucien_Sarti on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    How could the route be easily be tailored to his location?

    You seem to be getting most of your info from The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Which is a waste of time btw.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    The Dallas mayor at the time was a CIA asset, so would get what looked like a harmless parade routing request from his handler & use his influence with the Democratic party. Such a trivial request would matter little to parade organisers. There also could be others in the Dallas PD compromised by the CIA.

    No, never heard of that show/book before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    I recently came across a YouTube video where someone used Adobe AI to enhance the visual quality of the Zapruder film.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    What stops Oswald from being one of the assassins and getting caught? The question about whether they could have made Oswald the fall guy remains unanswered.

    By killing Oswald, Ruby ensured that there would not be a trial, which would have allowed Oswald to defend himself and potentially reveal any truths regarding his involvement in the assassination.

    Regardless of the specific details surrounding the events that took place or how the route may have influenced the situation, it is evident that the forensic analysis has unequivocally established the presence of multiple shooters.

    There is no way a bullet that comes down from an elevated height can strike Kennedy in the back and suddenly do a turn upwards out the throat, then go on another journey and hit Connelly's right shoulder, breaking his rib and tissue, coming out again, hitting the wrist, doing more damage, and then landing on the thigh, causing more damage. This sequence of events is physically impossible, as the bullet's trajectory and shape would not allow for such a complex path. Additionally, there is a lack of chain of custody for the bullet that was found in Parkland, with some edges and grain particles missing. This raises questions about the authenticity of the bullet and whether it was tampered with or compromised in some way.

    A police officer encountered an individual up in the grassy knoll. and attempted to approach them. Debunkers claim there was nobody up there is false. However, the individual flashed a badge and intimidated the officer, causing them to back off. Reasonably inferred that the individual's actions were not completely innocent. They likely remained in the area with the intention of cleaning up the scene and ensuring everything was good.

    Then, the man disappeared without a trace, leaving everyone wondering what became of him. I have a feeling he was somehow involved, and it is unfortunate the police officer was not wise enough to detain him for questioning. The entire story could have ended differently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Thanks for that. It's amazing how it fills in missing detail. Although if course it can only predictively fill in based on the surrounding information rather than creating what wasn't actually captured at the time.

    The stabilised zapruder film is interesting too. If they could find the original NIx film and do similar it would be worth seeing.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Yes, some think he fired a shot that day, others think he didn’t, its not known for sure. I’d be in the latter group. The trial of LHO would have been interesting for the citizens- maybe leading to the end of the US /as a constitutional republic, which is probably why it was prevented. He'd have been Epsteined or fallen out a 5th floor window etc. if Ruby screwed it up.

    An observation on the MB by someone else: “There was a piece in JFK Revisited showing edits made by Gerald Ford's pen, altering the Warren report's description of the location of a wound in Kennedy's back, falsely claiming it was in his neck to keep things consistent with the Magic Bullet (they assumed images wouldn't be released)”.

    I agree, Dealey Plaza was a shooting gallery that day, where the chance of missing was virtually ruled out. Around 30 people or more instinctively ran up the grassy knoll after the shooting.

    Not CIA this time 😶 but the US Dept of Defence (what’s the difference- all US agencies spread endless human suffering around the world for the same gangsters in charge) planning on faking evidence in ‘62 of Cuban responsibility if John Glenn died during the first American space mission (Operation Dirty Trick). In March 1963, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Maxwell D. Taylor, asked for a report on what could be done "to plan and incite a revolt in Cuba." Because of past difficulties in contriving "a timed uprising," he said consideration should be given to "engineering an incident as a cause for invasion."

    archive.ph/vlt5H#selection-927.0-934.0

    This is a regime mouthpiece, the WP, giving one of countless examples of what the US is and people say “No, the good guys would never -not find- other rifle bullets in Dealey Plaza, that is outside the range of what is possible”.

    Right!

    Post edited by Lucien_Sarti on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    it is evident that the forensic analysis has unequivocally established the presence of multiple shooters.


    What a load of lies. Why do you lie so much?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Debunkers will claim that, because he was allegedly involved in shooting at General Walker's house and killing Tippet, he must be a killer. However, it is important to understand that even if he had done those actions, his background suggests that he was controlled by the CIA

    In the period of the cold War, the idea of defecting to the Soviet Union and sharing secrets with the KGB was certainly not taken lightly. In fact, anyone who did so would be placed under close surveillance.

    What likely happened is that Oswald was recruited to be some sort of spy, he liked it, and then got an offer to play a role. The process of recruitment may have been gradual, starting with an initial exposure to espionage activities. Oswald may have found the role intriguing and engaging, leading to his acceptance of the opportunity.

    Marina Oswald actually mentioned in her earliest writings that her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald, had expressed admiration for President John F. Kennedy. While theories abound, one fact remains clear: the Oswald's decision to kill Kennedy does not make a lot of sense. Kennedy's actions during his short presidency suggest that he was committed to avoiding unnecessary conflict and working toward peace. One of his key initiatives was to pull the United States out of the Vietnam War and form closer ties with the Soviet Union. This shift in foreign policy was seen as a major step away from the Cold War mentality that had dominated the previous administration.

    The decision to target Kennedy and assassinate him only served the interests of warhawks in Washington, the CIA, and other factions with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. By removing Kennedy, these forces were able to prevent any further progress toward peace, ensuring that the United States remained entangled in Vietnam. Oswald shooting Kennedy really didn't help his cause at all.

    It will remain a mystery if the job at TSBD as a stockboy was actually a frame job or was he part of a larger conspiracy.

    The Tippet murder: What many people do not know about this case is that a classified memo released by the FBI claimed that Tippet was a leader of the John Birch Society in Dallas. This revelation adds a new dimension to the investigation of Kennedy's murder, as it highlights the involvement of individuals who were connected to the John Birch Society, known to have harbored deep suspicion and hostility towards the president. Tippet murder that warrants further scrutiny is the fact he was the only police officer assigned to the area where Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin, resided. Was he sent there to kill him, and Oswald reacted first, or did Oswald just kill an innocent police officer?The involvement of individuals with intelligence and big business connections in the John Birch Society raises further suspicions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    allegedly involved

    What likely happened

    some sort of spy

    one fact remains clear: the Oswald's decision to kill Kennedy does not make a lot of sense.


    Your usual brand of fact free waffle and lies, but one fact that actually does remain clear, and what you've omitted, is that Oswald was obsessed with Castro and the Kennedy administration tried to kill Castro many times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I’ve fallen into a common error. The official US narrative since the 1979 HSCA, is not the lone gunman theory but that it WAS a conspiracy of two (?) lone gunmen acting together but tied to no other organisations.

    Nothing about the Tippit murder makes sense in terms of a two lone gunman conspiracy, where afterwards the ‘killer’ casually walks into a cinema and just chills out. As others have pointed out in the sixties, it is a known phenomenon that a policeman being killed riles up the blood of other police who then will naturally become more trigger happy during the pursuit- at least that explanation has the advantage of some logic.

    Have you seen any effort by ‘debunkers’ to explain Oswald learning Russian (he took the Russian examination on February 25, 1959, while stationed at El Toro Marine Base in California), non-binding defection to the USSR and effortless return to US life that doesn’t involve ignoring it?

    I’d agree with your explanation of why JFK was killed. Two further ways of describing that rationale - my words mixed with others:-

    Btw, I don’t see JFK as some kind of knight on a white horse or Camelot figure. He was an American exceptionalist & imperialist (this alone makes him a fascist)- he wouldn’t be allowed near the Presidency if he wasn’t of that basic mindset. Even though he was unquestionably both these things, he still represented a threat deemed real enough to a powerful subset of the ruling class that they launched a soft coup by having his head blown off during a parade.

    JFK was assassinated by the dominant faction of the US govt for refusing to flex the full might of empire. Look up the secret calls he was making to Castro and Khrushchev during the crisis. It was also a clear message to future presidents that they better do what they’re told (the role of US president is a front desk face which by all appearances has all the power but in reality, is proximate to real power) – the memo has been understood by all office-holders since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You are agreeing with a poster who has speculated an entirely different sequence of events from you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I am agreeing with this paragraph.

    "The decision to target Kennedy and assassinate him only served the interests of warhawks..."

    i.e. that Oswald didn't shoot JFK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    But you agree with the HSCA who said Oswald did shoot JFK.

    The 2nd shooter was based on now discredited audio FYI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    No, I think all official narratives correct home is a rubbish bin.

    What was Ford’s explanation in later years for conspiratorial fabrication and perjury regarding moving the shoulder entrance wound up 4 inches, when he assumed the photos wouldn’t be released to the public?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Tiny details and semantics. Amazing you focus on this and arent bothered about the mountains of evidence against Oswald.

    The initial draft of the report stated: "A bullet had entered his {JFKs} back at a point slightly below the shoulder to the right of the spine."

    Ford wanted it to read: "A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

    The final report said: "A bullet had entered the base of the back of his neck slightly to the right of his spine."

    This is tired old hat btw.


    What does "all official narratives correct home is a rubbish bin" mean?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I assume you accept the 2nd photo in post 1992 is a valid photo and is the same photo that Ford was looking at in 1964.

    Fords version wanted to move the wound up by almost 3 inches (to be the entrance for the bullet they allege exited his throat), and the final version moves the wound up by at least 1.5 inches- to still serve that function.

    The entrance wound is not ‘at the base of the back of his neck’ (such contorted language) –  it is in his shoulder.

    Why would someone look at this photo, change an accurate & precise description by 3 inches and spend time and effort trying persuade 6 others to describe it that way only to reach a compromise which is still a false description.

    Here we have the attempted falsification of an entrance wound by 3” that just happens to assist a lone gunman theory (at the time) with all these officials not expecting their deliberations or the photo ever being seen by the public. The bullet was on a sharp downward angle and Kennedy was sitting upright - do you think the bullet that entered his shoulder exited his throat around the adams apple?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You claim that 9 shooters (3 teams of 3) were involved in assassinating JFK. I have some questions about this:

    (Let's start with basics)

    How do you know it was 9 and not 8 or 10 for example?

    What weapons did they use and what ammo?

    Who shot when and how often?



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    3 teams in Tampa, 3 in Chicago and 3 in Dallas. Some of the teams could of course be moved forward when previous assassination attempts failed, meaning a lot less than 9 teams may have been used.

    This is guess work of course, based on how assassination squads are set up in the military & intelligence agencies of countries like the US, UK etc. Their vets do like bragging about this in books. Reliable rifles & expert marksmen are required. It’s possible the 3rd team wasn’t used if they couldn’t get a clear shot. . Most or possibly all shots came from the TBD & knoll. I think Jackie & others were lucky not to also be hit.

    Take the team on the knoll: with honed practice, after finishing shooting the gunman drops the rifle into a long duffel bag being held by man 2, man 1&2 are jogging off a second later, man 3’s job is to pick up the casings & flash a (fake?) official badge to any cop who arrived (man 1&2 would not be seen by arrivees having sat into a nearby car by then). Man 3 could be in the the same or a different car in 40-60 seconds.

    It was bad luck that the car was immediately & zealously stripped & refurbished.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    There was no one on the knoll. As per the pictures and videos from the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    This is guess work of course

    That's exactly what is is.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Their vets do like bragging about this in books.


    Yet somehow there isn't any books written by any of these assassin squads, or the ones which assassinated the assassin squads, or the ones who... Etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    In a previous post, I mentioned how the HSCA investigation turned out to be a bit of a farce and a big cover-up by the CIA. One of the key figures in this farce was George Joannides, the CIA liaison to the HSCA. The CIA was initially helpful with HSCA by allowing them the opportunity to set up an office in Langley, Virginia, where they could review and access documents. There was an agreement between the HSCA and the CIA regarding non-disclosure, ensuring that sensitive information would not be disclosed to the public.

    HSCA's collaboration with the CIA involved two clerks from the CIA who would provide them with documents for review and authorization. The documents were mainly reviewed and sanctioned by the CIA first before being handed over to the HSCA.

    HSCA's investigation focused on given leads that implicated Bill Harvey and David Atlee Phillips, both CIA, who were alleged to be involved in the Kennedy conspiracy. In 1977, their efforts yielded promising results, indicating that the investigation was on track. However, things took a sinister turn in 1978. Scott Breckenridge, an attorney from the CIA's legal department, approached HSCA and informed them there would be a new point of contact within their organization. Breckenridge stated that his aim was to provide further assistance. It turned out to be a lie

    The HSCA began encountering difficulties in obtaining documents when George took over. The documents were often redacted, leaving out crucial information. The request for different documents was denied. With the sudden obstructions and redactions, the cooperation between the HSCA and the CIA had deteriorated.

    HSCA investigators, including Blakey as the chief counsel, have gone on record since the investigation ended to claim that the CIA terminated its cooperation because they could have found potentially damaging information. They contend that the CIA feared the revelation of sensitive information that could be explosive.

    It is worth noting that the HSCA team was not aware of the CIA's operations in Miami until 2001. It was discovered that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was running an operation there that involved collaboration between the agency and anti-Cuban exiles. It was also revealed that this group, known as Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil (DRE), was the same group that had a confrontation with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans.

    Carlos Bringuier, who was involved in the New Orleans incident, was a member of DRE. The HSCA investigators requested information regarding the identity of the CIA handler assigned to DRE, but they were not aware of the handler's presence throughout the duration of the investigation. The handler, however, was posing as a fellow investigator (our George) and observing the HSCA's activities.

    Furthermore, leaked files have revealed that Joannides met Lee Harvey Oswald three weeks before the assassination. This raises serious questions about the CIA's actions and their deliberate obstruction of the investigations. More to this story, I leave here for now.

    People on the side who believe Oswald acted alone often ignore information that does not fit with their narrative. The magic bullet theory, while seemingly promising when it was first suggested as the cause, is a clear hoax. What these magic bullet theorists have been claiming for years on YouTube and in books, and elsewhere is a lie.

    They have been claiming for decades that the Carcano bullet that hit Connally on the right shoulder opened a 3cm wound. The image attached contains this false claim (entry wound)

    The statement, "All based on a lie and fact, it still held up as evidence", is amazing to me. Dr Shaw, the surgeon who performed the operation on Governor Connally, stated to the Warren Commission and the HSCA that the bullet that hit Connally caused a 1.5-cm wound. He also added that the 3-cm wound was an enlargement procedure that he had made on the operating table.

    The significance of this discrepancy lies in its impact on the lone gunman theory, which posits that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy. If the bullet that hit Connally was indeed 1.5 cm long, it would indicate a second shot from Oswald that hit Connally, with the tip of the bullet penetrating his skin. The medical evidence that Dr. Shaw provided debunked the lone gunman theory and exposed a list of lone gunman supporters who concealed that information.

    This is a long post already, so I'm sorry I couldn't discuss more.





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    I have explained to you twice how the bullet could have made a 1.5cm entry wound. But, as usual, you ignore anything that calls into question your "gotcha" re: the bullet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Refusal to engage. Text dumps c&ped from Wikipedia.


    Give me one good reason why anyone would take this poster seriously?



Advertisement