Immigrant Caravan's WTF?!

2 Scoops

How strangely accurate. Winter is Trumping

Billy86

mammajamma wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

But hey, at least Donald is managing to encourage domestic terrorism and get citizens of his own country to murder each other in the process (the synagogue terrorist attack was over the Jewish community's role in helping refugees), so... there's that? Winning, right?

Regardless of whether he is making a bigger deal of it or not, the fact remains that it is reality. Look at Europe too. Even if it slowed down somewhat from ridiculous numbers, to only semi-ridiculous numbers, whats the end-game? A neverending march of people from one place to the other?

The mass movement of people is happening. There is ZERO plan in place, anywhere, to prevent or cure it.

So regardless of political gains and losses, it is still a very real and imminent problem.

You pointing out that some dude shot other dudes in a country has precisely FA to do with the issue at hand.

It has everything to do with the issue at hand, because this is all that is being achieved with the supposed "saviour" of the US from the same illegal immigration that has been in decline for over a decade. When you've got a supposedly huge issue like this at the door, it helps to have more than a hapless fraud in charge.

JohnMc1

mammajamma wrote: »

This is fundamentally true.

As a nation becomes "better off", you can certainly offer help to those less well-off.

But the idea that Ireland, or many other countries for that matter, are improving for the common man is a lie. Jobs security and stability are nearly things of the past, housing is a joke and healthcare is hanging on by a thread. These things probably explain why our birth-rates are dropping off a cliff too.

So no, I have absolutely zero responsibility to help out people from far-flung corners of the planet when my own country is seemingly on the ropes. Nevermind that "helping" in this instance will directly contribute to worsening conditions in housing, health and jobs here and elsewhere.

Its a nut-cracker of an idea. Cloud 9 level thinking.

We [as in US and Europe] have been giving these countries [and Continent in Africa's case] money to prop them up [via charities or tax funded financial aid] for decades and they are still poor. Now we're in the dilemma of if we just say screw it cut off all aid and let them figure things out for themselves the bleeding hearts will be on about how we want children to die [they're first response when people talk about reforming entitlement programs. ]or cut them off completely and they eventually revolt against their Govts that have been hoarding the money and aid that we have been sending for all these decades.

Something will have to be done eventually. We can't keep up the "They can always come to America or Europe" much longer. As you pointed out our Health services is barely able to accommodate the current population. It will be broken by the time Varadkar gets his 1 million extra people in his 2040 plan. Plus the Social Welfare system will dry up at some point as well.

wexie

Billy86 wrote: »

Rather than doing anything effective to stop it, all he's managing is to do is lie about it being full of middle easterners (because dog whistles are like heroin to his supporters, even if they make no sense) and getting his own citizens to commit terrorist attacks and murder each other as a result.

That could be true though??!! It's the Saudi's financing this whole thing to try to get this nasty Khashoggi business off the front pages.

The middle easterners in the actual caravan are just there to drop body parts along the way, kinda like breadcrumbs

Dog Man Star

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s true that illegal immigration is down. I’m still not getting how trump is responsible for the caravan’s existance though.

*** sinister music ****

Maybe it’s the Russians.

Nobody has suggested, jesus christ, that Trump organised the caravan.

Do I actually have to state that? Yes, it seems I do.

What posters are suggesting, and try and pay attention now, I will use simple words, is that Trump is Talking About The Caravan To Divert Attention From His Poicies To Crush The Medicaid Funds To Fund His Tax Cut For 2% Very Wealthy Americans.

Caravan of Honduran families = very dangerous
Cutting billions from Medicaid = good
Deploying 15,000 soldiers to deserted border over Christmas = good
Black people elected = bad.
Black women elected = very bad.

Dog Man Star

wexie wrote: »

That could be true though??!! It's the Saudi's financing this whole thing to try to get this nasty Khashoggi business off the front pages.

The middle easterners in the actual caravan are just there to drop body parts along the way, kinda like breadcrumbs

1. The Saudis have been funding the US since the late 1980s.
2. The caravan is unremarkable. It happens all the time. It is zero threat to the USA, as always.

mammajamma

Billy86 wrote: »

It has everything to do with the issue at hand, because this is all that is being achieved with the supposed "saviour" of the US from the same illegal immigration that has been in decline for over a decade. When you've got a supposedly huge issue like this at the door, it helps to have more than a hapless fraud in charge.

As far as I am aware, the democratic partys solution is to just let them all in and legalise them. Procedure or not. As the "people of X origin" increase in numbers within a country, its the most expected thing in the world that they will collectively push for MORE "people of X origin" to join them. Its colonialism with a new twist.

That would be cataclysmically wrong going forward. There are already other caravans forming and moving toward their border. Imagine if they get word that they'll all just be allowed in?

So, with that in mind, no matter how off his rocker Trump may be, its surely better than the other option. Even if its all only hot air, its still better.

The only reason there is a schism within American society regarding modern immigration is BECAUSE they have allowed so much immigration. They are a divided nation of different opposing groups of people, and this is symbolic of where they are now, one group versus another.

Why isn't Ireland like that? Split down the middle on just about every issue? I think perhaps the most important reason is that we are still a vast majority of population. Watch that go down, watch problems increase.

Diversity = division and antagonism.

Dog Man Star

What a relief it will be when an actual President replaces Trump. What a sigh of relief will ripple over the US, the World and the Financial Markets.

The boom to the US economy will be enormous.

Jail terms for Kushner, Trump Junior, Roger Stone will only enhance the US's position as the new age dawns. Back into the Paris Accord. The US setting the standard for renewable energies. The economy buzzing from the US's total conviction and investment into renewable energies.

US Entreprenuers setting the standards, breaking down walls. The entire nation buzzing and leading the way into the new world of zero carbon emissions and rolling back years of destruction.

Women and minorities emboldened and on equal wages, young black girls growing up to be the next CEOs. The US leading the way as the most progressive, flexible dynamic nation in the world.

I hope my daughter sees this.

mammajamma

JohnMc1 wrote: »

We [as in US and Europe] have been giving these countries [and Continent in Africa's case] money to prop them up [via charities or tax funded financial aid] for decades and they are still poor. Now we're in the dilemma of if we just say screw it cut off all aid and let them figure things out for themselves the bleeding hearts will be on about how we want children to die [they're first response when people talk about reforming entitlement programs. ]or cut them off completely and they eventually revolt against their Govts that have been hoarding the money and aid that we have been sending for all these decades.

Something will have to be done eventually. We can't keep up the "They can always come to America or Europe" much longer. As you pointed out our Health services is barely able to accommodate the current population. It will be broken by the time Varadkar gets his 1 million extra people in his 2040 plan. Plus the Social Welfare system will dry up at some point as well.

To sum up, its insanity. A definition of unsustainability that leads to bigger and worse problems.

Billy86

mammajamma wrote: »

As far as I am aware, the democratic partys solution is to just let them all in and legalise them. Procedure or not.

Really? Where did you read this, or who told it to you?

sonic85

Sure isn't the same thing happening at the Croatia Bosnia border? A load of economic migrants demanding to be admitted into the EU. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better I'm afraid

mammajamma

Dog Man Star wrote: »

What a relief it will be when an actual President replaces Trump. What a sigh of relief will ripple over the US, the World and the Financial Markets.

The boom to the US economy will be enormous.

Jail terms for Kushner, Trump Junior, Roger Stone will only enhance the US's position as the new age dawns. Back into the Paris Accord. The US setting the standard for renewable energies. The economy buzzing from the US's total conviction and investment into renewable energies.

US Entreprenuers setting the standards, breaking down walls. The entire nation buzzing and leading the way into the new world of zero carbon emissions and rolling back years of destruction.

Women and minorities emboldened and on equal wages, young black girls growing up to be the next CEOs. The US leading the way as the most progressive, flexible dynamic nation in the world.

I hope my daughter sees this.

You need to lay off the drugs there

Basically, one bloke not having a certain job will turn the world into a utopia, and all real and growing problems will just evaporate. Yeah!

Dog Man Star

mammajamma wrote: »

As far as I am aware, the democratic partys solution is to just let them all in and legalise them. Procedure or not.

I read this far and stopped. This is obviously not the democratic party's solution. This is Trump lies. If you think the Democrats believe in no borders, you are a cretin and do not deserve a vote.

"Let them all in" that's what he actually thinks is Democrat Party policy.

Dog Man Star

mammajamma wrote: »

You need to lay off the drugs there

Basically, one bloke not having a certain job will turn the world into a utopia, and all real and growing problems will just evaporate. Yeah!

More personal abuse and reported.

Dog Man Star

mammajamma wrote: »

You need to lay off the drugs there

Basically, one bloke not having a certain job will turn the world into a utopia, and all real and growing problems will just evaporate. Yeah!

Reported post. Personal abuse.

Sweetemotion

Dog Man Star wrote: »

More personal abuse and reported.

Ha, ha.

mammajamma

Billy86 wrote: »

Really? Where did you read this, or who told it to you?

The inference that I might need to be "told" something is stupid. With the little personal research I have done, it appears that the democrat party is purposefully playing down anything to do with these caravans, but that the intent is to sneak through the mid-term elections, and then start blasting their usual policies on immigration.

So if you want to know what they plan on doing, just look at their political stance over the last decade. They rely almost solely on immigrant/minority votes, and those groups of people want more of their own in the country. Democrats tow the line.

Its not rocket science to make an educated guess as to how they plan on addressing this.

mammajamma

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Reported post. Personal abuse.

Jesus man, its a tongue in cheek joke. If youre that delicate perhaps you shouldn't post on forums with clearly out-there ideas.

For what its worth, I apologise. And wont be replying to you again.

Mr. teddywinkles

Sweetemotion wrote: »

And with birth rates lower in Western countries. After time there would be more resources for everyone to have a better standard of life.

I call bollix to this. People are not having kids due to high cost of having kids in the first world. So if ya want to let your kids live in squalor. That's fine. Have as many as you like.

Billy86

mammajamma wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Really? Where did you read this, or who told it to you?

The inference that I might need to be "told" something is stupid. With the little personal research I have done, it appears that the democrat party is purposefully playing down anything to do with these caravans, but that the intent is to sneak through the mid-term elections, and then start blasting their usual policies on immigration.

So if you want to know what they plan on doing, just look at their political stance over the last decade. They rely almost solely on immigrant/minority votes, and those groups of people want more of their own in the country. Democrats tow the line.

Its not rocket science to make an educated guess as to how they plan on addressing this.

It would have saved you time to just admit you made it up.

If your guess was in any way educated, it would look at what happened when the Democratic party were in power from 2008-16, but that might not have been convenient as illegal border crossings and the number of illegals in the US went down year on year over that time (as they had been since the end of Bush Jr's tenure).

That's the problem with making uneducated guesses based on what you want to believe to be the truth, they tend to be very far off base.

Manic Moran

The decline in illegal immigration appears to hav somewhat reversed. The total of 397,000 arrests of people crossing the Southern border last year was a fair bit higher than the 310,000 or so from the year before.

Regardless, even if the decline is a given, one could well make the argument that a third of a million people is still a very significant number which needs addressing, even if that number is not the staggeringly significant number of the year before, Arguing “it’s declining so it does not need addressing” seems to be of limited utility in the near term.

Dog Man Star

mammajamma wrote: »

You need to lay off the drugs there !

Is this the joke I am overreacting to? You asking me to lay off the drugs? In what way is that supposed to be not-serious?

mammajamma

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I call bollix to this. People are not having kids due to high cost of having kids in the first world. So if ya want to let your kids live in squalor. That's fine. Have as many as you like.

Ding ding

Another upside-down hypocritical stance. If irish people decided to have no children tomorrow, in the vague hopes that it would free up housing and healthcare and improve jobs etc, sure the fools in charge would only fill the country up with non-irish people in their place, and much more besides.

Its a thought process that leads to a complete dead-end. Unless you count f&cking ourselves over for zero gain to be a great idea.

Dog Man Star

mammajamma wrote: »

Ding ding

Another upside-down hypocritical stance. If irish people decided to have no children tomorrow, in the vague hopes that it would free up housing and healthcare and improve jobs etc, sure the fools in charge would only fill the country up with non-irish people in their place, and much more besides.

Its a thought process that leads to a complete dead-end. Unless you count f&cking ourselves over for zero gain to be a great idea.

Typical Trumptard, lashing around insults like it's going out of fashion, and backtracking like a weak **** when actually challenged. Another flaky piece of ****.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Typical Trumptard, lashing around insults like it's going out of fashion, and backtracking like a weak **** when actually challenged. Another flaky piece of ****.

You’re very sane.

Dannyriver

Fann Linn wrote: »

Throw boiling oil down on them!

The US helped create these hell holes by continually interfering with them since the 80's the citation below is from 2014

'U.S. intervention in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala may seem like a hazy memory now, but these countries used to feature prominently in our headlines. The civil war in El Salvador, for example, began in 1980 and only ended in 1992.

During much of that time the El Salvadorian people were subjected to death squads and massacres by their government — which was backed by the U.S. When President Reagan came into office, and America began spending billions in El Salvador. According to the national organization Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador, the U.S. spent more than $6 billion on direct military assistance to El Salvador’s repressive regime.'

mammajamma

Billy86 wrote: »

It would have saved you time to just admit you made it up.

If your guess was in any way educated, it would look at what happened when the Democratic party were in power from 2008-16, but that might not have been convenient as illegal border crossings and the number of illegals in the US went down year on year over that time (as they had been since the end of Bush Jr's tenure).

That's the problem with making uneducated guesses based on what you want to believe to be the truth, they tend to be very far off base.

So the immigrant population of the united states is booming "just because", huh? The European origin people are quickly on the road to being a minority themselves, due to no political reason?

Do the democrats rely on immigrant voters or not? What shape would they be in minus those votes?

How do you explain the direction that everything is taking?

I think that the lack of rational thought leads to demanding "proof", even when observed reality exists all around you.

If I stated that the sky is blue, maybe youre the type of person that needs documented proof.

Funny how it boils down to this, isn't it? I claim i'm making an educated guess, you claim its uneducated. That's the state of the world today. Someone is right though, and someone is wrong. Not every thing is a bloody opinion.

mammajamma

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Typical Trumptard, lashing around insults like it's going out of fashion, and backtracking like a weak **** when actually challenged. Another flaky piece of ****.

"trumptard"! I don't even like the guy.

Be carful though, petal, I might have to report you for personal abuse :rolleyes:

Sweetemotion

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You’re very sane.

Careful now, he'll report you :pac:

Dannyriver

mammajamma wrote: »

The inference that I might need to be "told" something is stupid. With the little personal research I have done, it appears that the democrat party is purposefully playing down anything to do with these caravans, but that the intent is to sneak through the mid-term elections, and then start blasting their usual policies on immigration.

So if you want to know what they plan on doing, just look at their political stance over the last decade. They rely almost solely on immigrant/minority votes, and those groups of people want more of their own in the country. Democrats tow the line.

Its not rocket science to make an educated guess as to how they plan on addressing this.

All this Democrats v Republican nonsense from Irish people is sickening, why not call it as it is. The US governments have been continuously imperialistic war lords intent on bullying their way around the globe since WW 2 ...This is a US issue not Democrat v Republican. Both parties are culpable. Irish people supporting a nationalist like Trump that doesn t give 2 flying ****s about us is downright embarrassing.