Immigrant Caravan's WTF?!

Nermal

wexie wrote: »

And quite frankly I'm finding it hard to see much of a difference between this particular caravan of people trying to reach the US and the many famine ships that would have been doing the exact same thing a couple of hundred years ago.

There isn't a difference. But if you want to see how that policy worked out for the natives, you'll have to visit an Indian reservation.

green shoots wrote: »

Population explosion in Africa right now is going to see boat after boat after boat flowing into Europe by hook or by crook.

Tow the boats back to Africa.

wexie

Nermal wrote: »

There isn't a difference. But if you want to see how that policy worked out for the natives, you'll have to visit an Indian reservation.

green shoots

Nermal wrote: »

There isn't a difference. But if you want to see how that policy worked out for the natives, you'll have to visit an Indian reservation.



Tow the boats back to Africa.

How can we possibly monitor the entire Med? At the end of the day, this is a global problem whether we like it or not.

Manic Moran

wexie wrote: »

And quite frankly I'm finding it hard to see much of a difference between this particular caravan of people trying to reach the US and the many famine ships that would have been doing the exact same thing a couple of hundred years ago.

The analogy is fair, but there is one significant difference from the perspective of the migrants.

When the Irish migrated, they took their gamble on the basis that they knew there was an excellent chance that when they got to the other end, they could start working on their improved life. The US was expanding, it needed anyone it could get who could swing a pickaxe, farm the land, or carry a musket. So for the Irish, it was worth the trip. The caravans of today are making their gamble with the knowledge that the US’s immigration needs and policies have changed, and that when they reach the border they are not likely to be lawfully admitted. They have no reasonable expectation of the opportunity to make that better life in the US.

So the logical question then becomes... what do they intend to do when they get to the border? Of the last major caravan heading to the US, only about a third actually presented themselves to border patrol for admission. (Coincidentally, generally the third with the best arguments for admission). The rest, either decided that Tijuana or Ciudad were great places to settle (they aren’t) or they dispersed to the services of coyotes to try to make it over the border through other means. CBP arrested some 15,000 families (not people, not counting non-family groups, just families) last month trying to make it across, and presumably they didn’t get them all. Coyote is a lucrative and burgouning business.

The conclusion I think that most people have to come to is that though they may be driven by a reasonable desire for a better life, the very first act for most of them is going to be to deliberately disregard the sovereignty and laws of the nation they are planning to settle in. This is a notable moral distinction between today’s caravans, and the famine ships.

RobbingBandit

Military have been told shoot to kill if anybody is singing west side story or Neil diamond

4068ac1elhodqr

green shoots wrote: »

Genuine what?

Refugees?

green shoots wrote: »

They're [economically] poor and desperate [for big TVs]

[FYP]. Economic migrants are often poor and desperate for a better life, yes correct.

green shoots wrote: »

Which US Embassies?

Probably the offical ones, with the big flag waving outside

green shoots wrote: »

In other sh*tholes like Mexico? Their lives will hardly improve there will they?

So no-one ever, ever, ever can create a decent life for themselves in Mexico?
Maybe the whole entire country should vacate itself and turn the lights off.
Just leave that Mex GDP of 1.15(tr) USD behind also on a scrapheap.

Most of these folks are already fluent in Spanish, so could be ideal place to start.

antietam1

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/its-incredible-unreal-judge-throws-out-personal-injury-claims-for-120000-over-car-filled-with-smoke-37487420.html
Do we need immigrants like the above, coming over here crashing into our lovely trees and not taking our jobs.

Dog Man Star

This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention away from their continuing attempts to slash billions from the US healthcare pool to fund his preposterous tax cuts for the 2% very wealthy in the US.

Nothing more than that.

There is a process for asylum seekers in the US which will be followed as always.

Distraction. The boogeymen at the border. Nothing more than that.

wexie

Manic Moran wrote: »

The conclusion I think that most people have to come to is that though they may be driven by a reasonable desire for a better life, the very first act for most of them is going to be to deliberately disregard the sovereignty and laws of the nation they are planning to settle in. This is a notable moral distinction between today’s caravans, and the famine ships.

That's a very fair point and I can't disagree. I'd have to wonder though it that notable moral distinction so clearly visible to you and me from the comfort of our internet equipped homes perhaps is a little harder to see from by the side of the road somewhere in Mexico while struggling to keep your family together and alive.

Having said that, I don't believe these people should simply be let in, while the majority may well go on to lead perfectly law abiding lives if let in it would send completely the wrong message and would simply lead to more and more of these caravans.

Dog Man Star

Man, the standard of posting in AH has gone down something rotten over the past 4 years or so. It is pure right wing loonies now.

Pkiernan

Dog Man Star wrote: »

This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention away from their continuing attempts to slash billions from the US healthcare pool to fund his preposterous tax cuts for the 2% very wealthy in the US.

Nothing more than that.

There is a process for asylum seekers in the US which will be followed as always.

Distraction. The boogeymen at the border. Nothing more than that.

From some lefty student who has never lived near the Mexican border.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dog Man Star wrote: »

This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention away from their continuing attempts to slash billions from the US healthcare pool to fund his preposterous tax cuts for the 2% very wealthy in the US.

Nothing more than that.

There is a process for asylum seekers in the US which will be followed as always.

Distraction. The boogeymen at the border. Nothing more than that.

You’re saying that Trump organised the caravan?

Huge if true.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Pkiernan wrote: »

https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal93-844-25162-1104265

Bill Clinton had the right idea:

"The simple fact is that we must not and we will not surrender our borders to those who wish to exploit our history of compassion and justice. We cannot tolerate those who traffic in human cargo, nor can we allow our people to be endangered by those who would enter our country to terrorize Americans. But the solution to the problem of illegal immigration is not simply to close our borders.

The solution is to welcome legal immigrants and legal, legitimate refugees and to turn away those who do not obey the laws. We must say no to illegal immigration so we can continue to say yes to legal immigration.

Today, we send a strong and clear message. We will make it tougher for illegal aliens to get into our country. We will treat organizing a crime syndicate to smuggle aliens as a serious crime. And we will increase the number of border patrol, equipping and training them to be first-class law enforcement officers."

This speech got a standing ovation.

This is an example of how the response to Trump has radicalised the left. There’s a similar speech by Obama. The radicalisation of trump has radicalised the left.

Harika

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You’re saying that Trump organised the caravan?

Huge if true.

He blows it out of proportion. They will arrive earliest in 3-4months and then the usual asylum process starts. To send the army now, is pure alarmism for the midterms.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Harika wrote: »

He blows it out of proportion. They will arrive earliest in 3-4months and then the usual asylum process starts. To send the army now, is pure alarmism for the midterms.

Oh certainly he’s doing that.

The guy I was responding to seemed to say the caravan was a trump invention.

Odhinn

Dan Shaw wrote: »

Lidl are doing a great deal on tinfoil hats atm, just to let you know.

Sales of pitchforks and pitch soaked torches are also on the rise.

Outlaw Pete

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Imagine sending your army to defend your countries border

The man has gone completely insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDwt5UNV_4

archer22

It's ironic though that the people moving north are of native American ancestry and are now classed as "invaders" by those whose origins are the foreigners who came there in real invading caravans.

Dog Man Star

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Oh certainly he’s doing that.

The guy I was responding to seemed to say the caravan was a trump invention.

What?

He's referring to me. He is suggesting that I implied the caravan was invented by Trump.

Here is my post: "This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention away from their continuing attempts to slash billions from the US healthcare pool to fund his preposterous tax cuts for the 2% very wealthy in the US.

Nothing more than that.

There is a process for asylum seekers in the US which will be followed as always.

Distraction. The boogeymen at the border. Nothing more than that.

"

Pure lies. Lies upon lies upon lies.

Franz Von Peppercorn

archer22 wrote: »

It's ironic though that the people moving north are of native American ancestry and are now classed as "invaders" by those whose origins are the foreigners who came there in real invading caravans.

There’s a fair amount of Spainish blood in there too.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dog Man Star wrote: »

What?

He's referring to me. He is suggesting that I implied the caravan was invented by Trump.

Here is my post: "This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention away from their continuing attempts to slash billions from the US healthcare pool to fund his preposterous tax cuts for the 2% very wealthy in the US.

Nothing more than that.

There is a process for asylum seekers in the US which will be followed as always.

Distraction. The boogeymen at the border. Nothing more than that.

"

Pure lies. Lies upon lies upon lies.

The problem is you are unable to write coherently or clearly.

This statement:

“This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention”

Implies that the caravan was caused by trump.

You probably meant to say that the reaction from trump was a distraction.

The caravan itself is supported by left wing media.

JohnMc1

green shoots wrote: »

Genuine what? They're poor and desperate. Which US Embassies? In other sh*tholes like Mexico? Their lives will hardly improve there will they?

So this is the NPCs I've been hearing about.

Its not our responsibility or obligation to make people's lives better. And they certainly don't have the right to just waltz into our Countries. If we can make Countries worth living in then they can do the same with theirs.

Billy86

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

But hey, at least Donald is managing to encourage domestic terrorism and get citizens of his own country to murder each other in the process (the synagogue terrorist attack was over the Jewish community's role in helping refugees), so... there's that? Winning, right?

Dog Man Star

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The problem is you are unable to write coherently or clearly.

This statement:

“This caravan is a distraction from Trump to turn attention”

Implies that the caravan was caused by trump.

You probably meant to say that the reaction from trump was...

The caravan itself is supported by left wing media.

Jesus Christ.

mammajamma

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So this is the NPCs I've been hearing about.

Its not our responsibility or obligation to make people's lives better. And they certainly don't have the right to just waltz into our Countries. If we can make Countries worth living in then they can do the same with theirs.

This is fundamentally true.

As a nation becomes "better off", you can certainly offer help to those less well-off.

But the idea that Ireland, or many other countries for that matter, are improving for the common man is a lie. Jobs security and stability are nearly things of the past, housing is a joke and healthcare is hanging on by a thread. These things probably explain why our birth-rates are dropping off a cliff too.

So no, I have absolutely zero responsibility to help out people from far-flung corners of the planet when my own country is seemingly on the ropes. Nevermind that "helping" in this instance will directly contribute to worsening conditions in housing, health and jobs here and elsewhere.

Its a nut-cracker of an idea. Cloud 9 level thinking.

Harika

Billy86 wrote: »

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

That's a really good point.
He is just the one to protecting America alone.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Jesus Christ.

What’s upsetting you now? You probably need to write more coherently and write more to explain your position.

mammajamma

Billy86 wrote: »

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

But hey, at least Donald is managing to encourage domestic terrorism and get citizens of his own country to murder each other in the process (the synagogue terrorist attack was over the Jewish community's role in helping refugees), so... there's that? Winning, right?

Regardless of whether he is making a bigger deal of it or not, the fact remains that it is reality. Look at Europe too. Even if it slowed down somewhat from ridiculous numbers, to only semi-ridiculous numbers, whats the end-game? A neverending march of people from one place to the other?

The mass movement of people is happening. There is ZERO plan in place, anywhere, to prevent or cure it.

So regardless of political gains and losses, it is still a very real and imminent problem.

You pointing out that some dude shot other dudes in a country has precisely FA to do with the issue at hand.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Billy86 wrote: »

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

That’s true that illegal immigration is down. I’m still not getting how trump is responsible for the caravan’s existance though.

*** sinister music ****

Maybe it’s the Russians.

Billy86

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border have been on the decline since George W. Bush was in office, this just goes to show what a weak leader and comical failure Trump is. Despite running on the laughable idea of a big wall to "stopping all those illegals", it looks like he's now overseeing what even his own supporters seem to think is one of the largest insurgencies of illegal immigrants the country has ever witnessed. :pac:

That’s true that illegal immigration is down. I’m still not getting how trump is responsible for the caravan’s existance though.

*** sinister music ****

Maybe it’s the Russians.

The same Russians that the moderators of the Irish reddit had to warn people about leading up to our own election? Or different Russians?

Rather than doing anything effective to stop it, all he's managing is to do is lie about it being full of middle easterners (because dog whistles are like heroin to his supporters, even if they make no sense) and getting his own citizens to commit terrorist attacks and murder each other as a result.