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Immigrant Caravan's WTF?!

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12467…18

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    #92
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Climate aside, Ireland a hundred years ago wasn't exactly a desirable destination. People stayed and made something of it.
    Granted it won't happen over nite. But this up and abandon every thing (king and country)because ya see a you tube video of a guy somewhere else living it up elsewhere, which truth be told we all know isn't exactly as clear cut as that.

    Yes, nobody ever left Ireland in search of a better life.


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    #93
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    Yes, nobody ever left Ireland in search of a better life.

    A certainty of course


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    #94
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    juice1304 wrote: »
    There are already an estimated 30 million illegal immigrants living there... At what point is it an invasion then?

    Around the same time our Govts in the West of Europe realize that this "refugee crisis" is also an invasion.


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    #95
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Pero_Bueno wrote: »
    To all the people that think the US should just open it's borders and let everyone in , would you let them in your house to live ?

    Notice how all the "refugees welcome" will never do that. Or the rich celebrities like JK Rowling telling us to give up our spare rooms to them, but she hasn't given any of her 19 bedroom mansion to them either.


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    #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55sjaEDJ65k


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    #97
    jim salter
    Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭jim salter


    I thought this thread was about travelers (cúnts) moving from Tipperary to Westmeath


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trump should do the humanitarian thing and spend a billion of his own money building camps for these people next to those that wish to welcome them.


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    #99
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    Notice how all the "refugees welcome" will never do that. Or the rich celebrities like JK Rowling telling us to give up our spare rooms to them, but she hasn't given any of her 19 bedroom mansion to them either.

    It was the exact same when the boats were going down in sea and young turkish boy was washed up. Everyone calling to open our doors houses etc but nobody did it in the end. Its NIMBYISM..


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    #100
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,268 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    America is all for the free market but even it is not so extreme on that as to let this caravan in.


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    #101
    Thespoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    I blame mobile phone technology. The more people from poorer countries begin to have access to them, the worse its going to get.


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    #102
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,977 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    juice1304 wrote: »
    There are already an estimated 30 million illegal immigrants living there... At what point is it an invasion then?

    11 million, not 30 million. Still an enormous number. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/04/25/undocumented-immigrant-population-united-states/100877164/


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    #103
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    wexie wrote: »
    Calling 15000 people trying to get into a country with a population of over 300 million an 'invasion' is like calling a mosquito in your room an assassination attempt...

    :rolleyes:


    15000 would be a decent invasion number but the idea that to be considered an invasion the numbers would have to have any relevance to the population is nonsense.

    If they try to force their way in , the yes it's an invasion attempt.
    Nobody said it had to be a competent one.


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    #104
    Spleerbun
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Spleerbun


    Do the ones in the caravan who are genuine refugees not legally cease to be refugees as soon as they reach the first safe country? If not, they probably should


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    #105
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    paw patrol wrote: »
    15000 would be a decent invasion number but the idea that to be considered an invasion the numbers would have to have any relevance to the population is nonsense.

    If they try to force their way in , the yes it's an invasion attempt.
    Nobody said it had to be a competent one.

    I guess you could call it an invasion alright, technically you might even be right.

    But let's not get carried away with the rhetoric and make it seem like the very fabric that holds together US society is under threat from these people.

    To put it in context, if this caravan is 15000 people and they were to actually gain entry into the US then that would make up for about half of the gun deaths in the US last year....


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    #106
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Do the ones in the caravan who are genuine refugees not legally cease to be refugees as soon as they reach the first safe country? If not, they probably should

    I guess that probably depends on how you define 'safe country' to be honest.

    I think I remember reading they were all offered residence and work permits in Mexico but if you've given up everything you own and know in order to try to find a better life for yourself and your kids I can see how Mexico would seem like a pretty poor compromise.


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    #107
    maxwell smart
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭maxwell smart


    Read something about this caravan.
    A few questions on it, such as how are they being fed and watered? Where is the money coming from for that.
    Who benefits most from the timing of this caravan heading to the US?

    Hmmmmmmm?
    Maybe I should head over to the Conspiracy Forum..?:confused:


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    #108
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    maxwell smart wrote: »
    Who benefits most from the timing of this caravan heading to the US?

    Seems like an awful convenient election topic doesn't it?


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    #109
    Spleerbun
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Spleerbun


    wexie wrote: »
    I guess that probably depends on how you define 'safe country' to be honest.

    I think I remember reading they were all offered residence and work permits in Mexico but if you've given up everything you own and know in order to try to find a better life for yourself and your kids I can see how Mexico would seem like a pretty poor compromise.

    Well that wouldn't really be the mindset of someone in fear for their life, you've just described an economic migrant. So if you're correct, then while maybe they did start off a genuine refugee they ceased to be one once they kept moving beyond safety


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    #110
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Well that wouldn't really be the mindset of someone in fear for their life, you've just described an economic migrant. So if you're correct, then while maybe they did start off a genuine refugee they ceased to be one once they kept moving beyond safety

    I'm not disputing that many of these people are economic migrants in the technical sense. Not even remotely.

    But, you'd have to wonder at what stage does an 'economic migrant' stop being a refugee, there was an article linked a few pages back about the impacts of climate change on small subsistence farmers in South America, many of which are in this caravan.

    After a few years of failed crops they've nothing left, can't afford to feed or educate their children, no state support available.....what do you do at that stage?

    And I don't think any of this is going to get any better any time soon, they may not be 'in fear for their lives' in a sense of war, violence, crime etc. etc. but you're no less dead when you starve are ya?


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    #111
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    wexie wrote: »
    I guess you could call it an invasion alright, technically you might even be right.

    But let's not get carried away with the rhetoric and make it seem like the very fabric that holds together US society is under threat from these people.

    To put it in context, if this caravan is 15000 people and they were to actually gain entry into the US then that would make up for about half of the gun deaths in the US last year....

    Humans still think like villagers. If there’s a terrorist incident that kills a dozen there’s no real panic, a 9/11 causes an existential panic even though the number of deaths was probably lower than the yearly gun homicides or car deaths. Why?

    Because a single extreme event like that was an existential crisis for most of history. If you belonged to a tribe the death of 3000 people will end the tribe.

    Similarly 15,000 people at the gates is no threat to a country of 320 million but it would be an existential crisis to a village or walled town. Which is how we think.

    (Also when the caravan hits the wall it’s numbers will grow with locals and activists).

    As I said before you’d swear the right came up with this. Because of TDS the democrats will be demanding entry (even though Obama and all previous democratic presidents were not open borders activists, often far from it).

    Now imagine the wall is breached with the help of democratic activists and politicians, and the outposts are overrun...


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    #112
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore




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    #113
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    There is something similar in Calais for ages already.


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    #114
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    wexie wrote: »
    I guess that probably depends on how you define 'safe country' to be honest.

    I think I remember reading they were all offered residence and work permits in Mexico but if you've given up everything you own and know in order to try to find a better life for yourself and your kids I can see how Mexico would seem like a pretty poor compromise.

    Plus they passed several US Embassies where they could have easily applied for asylum if they were in fact genuine asylum seekers.


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    #115
    green shoots
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 54 ✭✭green shoots


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    Plus they passed several US Embassies where they could have easily applied for asylum if they were in fact genuine asylum seekers.

    They're poor desperate people looking for a better life, in USA. They'd have a hard time finding that in other Central American countries or Mexico.
    It's a sad state of affairs, but you can't really blame the people for trying.


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    #116
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    green shoots wrote: »
    They're poor desperate people looking for a better life, in USA. They'd have a hard time finding that in other Central American countries or Mexico.
    It's a sad state of affairs, but you can't really blame the people for trying.

    If they were genuine then they would have applied in the US Embassies that they passed by. Europe is paying for it Bleeding heart "Let them in. They just want a better life." insanity.


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    #117
    green shoots
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 54 ✭✭green shoots


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    If they were genuine then they would have applied in the US Embassies that they passed by. Europe is paying for it Bleeding heart "Let them in. They just want a better life." insanity.

    I'm not saying open all borders, but if you were in their situation I'm pretty sure you'd consider trying to get into the USA. We all would.


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    #118
    Spleerbun
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Spleerbun


    green shoots wrote: »
    They're poor desperate people looking for a better life, in USA. They'd have a hard time finding that in other Central American countries or Mexico.
    It's a sad state of affairs, but you can't really blame the people for trying.

    Fair enough but then you also can't blame countries for defending their borders either. (Not directed specifically at you)


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    #119
    green shoots
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 54 ✭✭green shoots


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Fair enough but then you also can't blame countries for defending their borders either. (Not directed specifically at you)

    I agree. I'm not sure what the solution is but it's going to get a whole lot worse. If I was struggling to put food on the table and could chance my arm getting to a richer country with more opportunities, I'm pretty sure I'd take the chance.


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    #120
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    green shoots wrote: »
    I'm not saying open all borders, but if you were in their situation I'm pretty sure you'd consider trying to get into the USA. We all would.

    We're not legally or morally obligated to take in everyone with a sob story [which Europe is finding out with its constant influx of migrants from a Continent that's 3x or more the size of Europe]. Why aren't they marching on their Govts to improve their Countries instead of always rushing to ours?


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    #121
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    green shoots wrote: »
    I agree. I'm not sure what the solution is but it's going to get a whole lot worse. If I was struggling to put food on the table and could chance my arm getting to a richer country with more opportunities, I'm pretty sure I'd take the chance.

    That's it exactly, some of those people may not be refugees in the traditionally accepted sense of the word....but I'm not sure if starving in peace is much better than dying in armed conflict to be honest.

    And quite frankly I'm finding it hard to see much of a difference between this particular caravan of people trying to reach the US and the many famine ships that would have been doing the exact same thing a couple of hundred years ago.


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