Madeleine McCann

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

EDit wrote: »

In my 40+ years on this planet I don’t think I’ve known a single person (including my best friends at different points in my life) who, if I asked them to help me dispose of a child’s body, wouldn’t tell me to **** off. If anyone asked me to do that for them, it would be my response

The idea that these folks who holiday together just happened to all agree to aid in the disposal of a dead kid is just laughable

David Paynes a creep and Jane Tanner is lying. As are Kate and Gerry. Wilfully. Make it easier on yourself and limit your future theories to just these four people.

Maybe add in the fact that Jane like Kate is an anestitist. The toddlers were drugged. The place was left unlocked and the dogs alerted by the couch and at the flowerved outside the window.

Its almost as if the evidence is telling you what happened.

gozunda

Something Else

EDit wrote: »

In my 40+ years on this planet I don’t think I’ve known a single person (including my best friends at different points in my life) who, if I asked them to help me dispose of a child’s body, wouldn’t tell me to **** off. If anyone asked me to do that for them, it would be my response

The idea that these folks who holiday together just happened to all agree to aid in the disposal of a dead kid is just laughable

As it stands - it is suggested as just one of the many possibilities. We have no idea how many may have been implicated and/ or what any of those involved had to lose. Desperation makes for strange outcomes in my experience. Sadly some people will lie and do just about anything if they believe they can get away with something.

RollieFingers

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

So some random contact was ready to go with location/van etc. and was just happy to implicate himself/herself in the disposal/hiding in a fridge of a child's dead body? From an out of the blue phone call from a couple on holidays? That makes no sense at all to me.

juno10353

Something Else

Have the British police, interrogated the parents and the tapas group?

Have they spent 12 million going over the Portuguese files only where they refer to abduction?

Has the British police found anything anywhere to suggest who the abductors were?

Top British police spend 12 million pounds, approx 14 million euro, on abduction theory and nothing!

Time to look at other theories.

Time to look to family and friends for answers.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MonkieSocks wrote: »

You need to watch that video again.

I would think Gerry McCann would be enormous stress on the night of the dissappearence and subsequently on the night of the reconstruction.

Tanner states that Gerry was gone so long Kate said he must have stopped go watch the football. Totally contracting the bogus timelines they had written out on the night in question (twice /differently). No clarifying of time gone by Gerry unsurprisingl.

Then Tanner says she passes right by him and Jez on he side of the road. Gerry has already stated he didnt see Jane. So now it's obvious one is lying again. Gerry cuts across her and tells her he was on the other side of the street explaining how he didnt see her.

Jane then goes on to break down when she describes the egg man/women silhouette who passed by who she remembers absolutley nothing about but later changes to state she saw Murat. Despite initially describing him with long hair. Very conveniently when he becomes a suspect.

Her account and Gerry's with her is so obviously completely bogus

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

RollieFingers wrote: »

So some random contact was ready to go with location/van etc. and was just happy to implicate himself/herself in the disposal/hiding in a fridge of a child's dead body? From an out of the blue phone call from a couple on holidays? That makes no sense at all to me.

What they did with the body after she died no doubt remains the greatest mystery. The Smith sighting if it was Gerry (60-80%) and with a striking resemblance to the way he carried one of the twins places him heading to the beach. Freud? Boat? In the Water? Empty house? That part even if the body is ever found we may never know.

Mike9832

OwlsZat wrote: »

What they did with the body after she died no doubt remains the greatest mystery. The Smith sighting if it was Gerry (60-80%) and with a striking resemblance to the way he carried one of the twins places him heading to the beach. Freud? Boat? In the Water? Empty house? That part even if the body is ever found we may never know.

Dustbin truck at 12-4am makes the most sense

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

EDit wrote: »

In my 40+ years on this planet I don’t think I’ve known a single person (including my best friends at different points in my life) who, if I asked them to help me dispose of a child’s body, wouldn’t tell me to **** off. If anyone asked me to do that for them, it would be my response

The idea that these folks who holiday together just happened to all agree to aid in the disposal of a dead kid is just laughable

If Madeleine died or was seriously injured, it was as a direct result of neglect on the part of her parents. All the adults in that group were negligent and therefore culpable. They would have been looking at career ends, possible jail sentences and the possibility of their remaining kids being taken from them. I shudder to think it, but if she died, she wasn't coming back and they did what they felt was necessary .

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

Her account and Gerry's with her is so obviously completely bogus

Jez Wilkins said he was there at the time talking to Gerry McCann.

Jane stated she seen them where Jez said they were.

Gerry McCann said he was talking to Jez, only difference he thought it was on the other side of the road

How did she know they were there on the street talking, unless she was there and seen them.

Unless Jez is in on it too.

I would think Gerry McCann would be enormous stress on the night of the dissappearence and subsequently on the night of the reconstruction.

Imagine the extreme stress of loosing your child.

gozunda

Something Else

RollieFingers wrote: »

So some random contact was ready to go with location/van etc. and was just happy to implicate himself/herself in the disposal/hiding in a fridge of a child's dead body? From an out of the blue phone call from a couple on holidays? That makes no sense at all to me.

It's just one of the possibilities mooted. And as crazy as some random kidnapper able to run in between all the checking and abduct the child with no one observing anything or leaving any trace whatsoever...

Spanish Eyes

Mike9832 wrote: »

Dustbin truck at 12-4am makes the most sense

Years ago I said a similar thing on a related thread, maybe this one, but cannot be bothered to look back. And the absolute abuse I got was unreal.

But it is a theory, as are many others. Awful to contemplate for sure, but in a panic it may well have happened. No one will ever know.

And before someone gets back and says "what about the dogs and the rental car after 25 days" I dunno, but maybe something connected with the poor child was detected.

I have no answers, nor does anyone else. The only thing I am absolutely sure of is the cavalier attitude of the parents towards their little babes in order that they could go drinking and eating with their friends.

Anyway, we all know the whole thing smells rotten. But it is over really as far as pinning any guilt on anyone really. That can only be done in a court of law.

Neglect of the parents is something else though really.

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Neglect by the parents is something else though really.

Something they've never admitted to. They should have come out afterwards and pleaded with parents to not do what they did. It might have prevented another " child abduction".

RollieFingers

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

It's mad to think what happened, both scenarios seem so crazy, things like that just don't really ever happen.

So either was a) the parents/tapas group were involved in her murder/accidental death and successfully disposed of the body/hid in a fridge with or without the help of an accomplice already in the country and happy to help. Or put the body in the bins. Or disposed of the body in the sea?

Or b) she was taken by a lone wolf opportunist or a more organised paedo/crime ring.

For me it's more probable that she was abducted, the sightings/reports of dodgy characters, the total negligence by the parents providing a chance for such a scenario to occur, the pattern like behavior of the group in previous nights etc.

Or is there realistically any other possibilities?

Mike9832

maebee wrote: »

They should have come out afterwards and pleaded with parents to not do what they did. It might have prevented another " child abduction".

Good point

They still says it was like being in the back garden

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

RollieFingers wrote: »

Or is there realistically any other possibilities?

There are other possibilities. Unpalatable as it is, it is possible that there was something other than family holidays going on here with this group. This sentence from page 129 of KM's book "madeleine" has always troubled me - "Her perfect little genitals torn apart":(:(:(

Such a strange thing for any mother to write/think. She must have known, when she wrote this, that Madeleine's siblings would be able to read it in time. Unbelievable.

RollieFingers

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

maebee wrote: »

There are other possibilities. Unpalatable as it is, it is possible that there was something other than family holidays going on here with this group. This sentence from page 129 of KM's book "madeleine" has always troubled me - "Her perfect little genitals torn apart":(:(:(

Such a strange thing for any mother to write/think. She must have known, when she wrote this, that Madeleine's siblings would be able to read it in time. Unbelievable.

What's the other possibility and scenario?

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

RollieFingers wrote: »

What's the other possibility and scenario?

"it is possible that there was something other than family holidays going on here with this group"

RollieFingers

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

maebee wrote: »

"it is possible that there was something other than family holidays going on here with this group"

Yeh but can you elaborate a bit please? What other than family holidays was going on and how did that result in the disappearance of the child?

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

RollieFingers wrote: »

Yeh but can you elaborate a bit please? What other than family holidays was going on and how did that result in the disappearance of the child?

Look at David Payne and the Gaspars statements and KM's bit in her book about Madeleine's genitals

RollieFingers

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

maebee wrote: »

Look at David Payne and the Gaspars statements and KM's bit in her book about Madeleine's genitals

Can you not just say what your theory is? Is it that Payne was a paedo and killed Madeline? Were the parents involved? I'm not discounting anything, just curious as to what other possibilities exist apart from abduction or accidental overdose/accidental killing by parents/group?

maebee

Accident happened, parents hid body

RollieFingers wrote: »

Can you not just say what your theory is? Is it that Payne was a paedo and killed Madeline? Were the parents involved? I'm not discounting anything, just curious as to what other possibilities exist apart from abduction or accidental overdose/accidental killing by parents/group?

I can say what my theory is. I think that there was pedophilia
in that group:(.
I think that Madeleine died and her body could not be presented for autopsy:( so it was disposed of

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

hawkelady wrote: »

The same Ben Needham that investigating officers believe he was killed in an accident at his grandparents house during renovations ? They believe he died the same day he disappeared and was moved and buried shortly thereafter .... sounds similar alright !!

You don't find it convenient that this theory is arrived at after the suspect has died - after all this time?

Speaking on ITV's Good Morning Britain Leigh-Anna Needham said she is not sure that a toy car found by cops at the site of a farmhouse in Kos belonged to her brother ...

She said: “I still remain hopeful that he is out there. The toy car has been shown to my mum and grandparents.

"My mum obviously broke down, they do vaguely remember a toy car but what I can’t stress enough is my nan is only 90per cent sure that it is one that is similar to the one that Ben had. We can’t say for definite that it is Ben’s toy car."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1998064/ben-needhams-sister-breaks-down-on-good-morning-britain-as-she-vows-to-keep-searching-for-tragic-tot/

chicorytip

Something Else

maebee wrote:

Look at David Payne and the Gaspars statements and KM's bit in her book about Madeleine's genitals

RollieFingers wrote:

Can you not just say what your theory is? Is it that Payne was a paedo and killed Madeline? Were the parents involved? I'm not discounting anything, just curious as to what other possibilities exist apart from abduction or accidental overdose/accidental killing by parents/group?

maebee wrote:

I can say what my theory is. I think that there was pedophilia in that group . I think that Madeleine died and her body could not be presented for autopsy so it was disposed of

EDit wrote:

The idea that these folks who holiday together just happened to all agree to aid in the disposal of a dead kid is just laughable

It seems to me that Gaspars misinterpreted what Payne and McCann were actually talking about and the gestures that were made did not relate to sexual activity involving a child. I don't believe there is a paedophilic element to the group themselves or in the disappearance of Madeleine.
There would be no grand conspiracy required to stage a cover up. Just two members of the group, Kate and Gerry, would be involved. The others would never know for certain what really transpired even if they were suspicous. The theory that somebody assisted the couple in the removal of the body is as valid as any other. Why were the phone records wiped? There could well have been many frantic calls made to influential friends in high places back home in England resulting in a plan being set in motion involving local recruits.
See the Richard Hall analysis in relation to this particular aspect. It appears quite plausible to me.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Mike9832 wrote: »

Dustbin truck at 12-4am makes the most sense

It doesn't. There are 3 bits of evidence which involve the rental car. She was moved just before Eddie and Keela arrived.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

You don't find it convenient that this theory is arrived at after the suspect has died - after all this time?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1998064/ben-needhams-sister-breaks-down-on-good-morning-britain-as-she-vows-to-keep-searching-for-tragic-tot/

Thst story goes that someone the digger driver had spoke to about it confessed after he died. That seems hugely plausible.

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

As it stands - it is suggested as just one of the many possibilities. We have no idea how many may have been implicated and/ or what any of those involved had to lose. Desperation makes for strange outcomes in my experience. Sadly some people will lie and do just about anything if they believe they can get away with something.

lol, you seem to have alot of experience in desperation, particularly when it comes to trying to suggest the parents and friends were involved in the disappearance.

The only desperation was that of parents trying to find their missing child, and on the flip side, the desperation of conspiracy theorists trying to suggest the McCann's are responsible by taking every word and action they made and try to wrench it out of context as if it was some indication of guilt.

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

It doesn't. There are 3 bits of evidence which involve the rental car. She was moved just before Eddie and Keela arrived.

What is your theory on how and when she was moved and by whom?

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously? lol

Two different timelines produced at the same time on the activity book of the missing child??? Handwriting appears to be the same on both. All this raises more questions than it answers tbh.

That is unless you wish to inexplicabley excuse those who automatically need to be first excluded from further investigation.

Very odd imo.

Seriously yourself lol.

Are you suggesting that they they wrote down their plan, not one but twice, one version supposedly contradicting the other, on the missing child's copy book, for the police to find?

What exactly are these two different version of events? Can you show us how different they are and how they contradict one another? Where is this copy book, can we see it?

v638sg7k1a92bx

maebee wrote: »

I can say what my theory is. I think that there was pedophilia
in that group:(.
I think that Madeleine died and her body could not be presented for autopsy:( so it was disposed of

How did you come up with that theory, based on what?

v638sg7k1a92bx

maebee wrote: »

Something they've never admitted to. They should have come out afterwards and pleaded with parents to not do what they did. It might have prevented another " child abduction".

They've always acknowledged that they left the kids alone. Nobody debates this, even the people who suggest that the McCanns' are lying believe them when they say they left their kids alone, which then raises the question that if people choose to question everything else the McCann's say then why selectively choose the believe the McCann's when they say they left the kids alone?

Anyway, KM addresses this in the first chapter of her book.