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Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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    #1772
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Or alternatively, this thread is about people venting - about two things.

    Number 1. Travellers.

    Number 2. Anyone who might have anything remotely positive to say about travellers.

    Both are equally to be ridiculed.

    Its not a debate, its not a two way discussion.

    Its an angry mob basically.

    Yep. A perfect appraisal.... well said!


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    #1773
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Labelling people as an angry mob is an attempt to stifle debate, not to encourage two-way discussion.

    An angry mob would be no match for Traveller culture, Mullingar-style, all the same.

    We are subsidising an out-of-control, inbred 'clan' who want all the protections and privileges of life here, while determined to remain on the outside of society when it suits themselves. Which it overwhelmingly does most of the time.

    There is no two-way discussion here, its completely one way and anyone who challenges the prevailing view gets the pre-prepared and well worn tirade about "lefty liberal pinko political correct gone mad" shoved in their face.


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    #1774
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Yep. A perfect appraisal.... well said!

    Why thank you!:)


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    #1775
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    There is no two-way discussion here, its completely one way and anyone who challenges the prevailing view gets the pre-prepared and well worn tirade about "lefty liberal pinko political correct gone mad" shoved in their face.

    In between those posts you mention there are people having a discussion about Cash and the wider problems with the entitlement culture in the traveller population.


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    #1776
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    In between those posts you mention there are people having a discussion about Cash and the wider problems with the entitlement culture in the traveller population.

    A discussion - really, is that what you call it?

    A bit like chatting about the weather.....casual chat is it.....FFS


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    #1777
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    There is no two-way discussion here, its completely one way and anyone who challenges the prevailing view gets the pre-prepared and well worn tirade about "lefty liberal pinko political correct gone mad" shoved in their face.

    The 'prevailing view' prevails for a good reason.

    Two-way discussion is not compulsory when matters are clear-cut, but no-one is preventing you from posting, either.


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    #1778
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    A discussion - really, is that what you call it?

    A bit like chatting about the weather.....casual chat is it.....FFS

    Yes, I called it a discussion. Its generally what these things are used for.

    And no, its not small talk, its an actual issue. Whether people agree with one side or the other, I don't particularly care.


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    #1779
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Or alternatively, this thread is about people venting - about two things.

    Number 1. Travellers.

    Number 2. Anyone who might have anything remotely positive to say about travellers.

    Both are equally to be ridiculed.

    Its not a debate, its not a two way discussion.

    Its an angry mob basically.

    Sorry, but the "no debate welcome" attitude is exactly what you'll find in mainstream politics and on RTE, where anyone who dares to say anything critical about Travellers is immediately branded a racist. Look at the recent disgraceful treatment of Peter Casey, for instance.

    The prevailing mainstream narrative is that Travellers are a disadvantaged ethnic minority group whose many problems have been caused by discrimination, racism, and social exclusion. Everything that goes wrong in Traveller communities is somehow regarded as settled people's fault.

    People are right to call BS on this -- and the fact that Casey got 23 percent of the vote in the recent election shows that there are many in Irish society who are fed up of the pandering around Travellers. It's evident that their numerous problems are directly caused by the very "culture" that the mainstream politicians and media pundits tell us is valuable and worth protecting.

    If any settled person took his daughter out of school at age 12 and married her off to her first cousin when she was 16, our politicians and media would be up in arms protesting about it. It would be seen as utterly disgraceful treatment of a vulnerable young girl that should not be condoned in a civilized society. When Travellers do exactly this, words like "tradition" and "culture" get thrown about and everyone politely looks the other way.

    If you want to have a discussion about any of this, feel free.


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    #1780
    Rory28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Rory28


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    A discussion - really, is that what you call it?

    A bit like chatting about the weather.....casual chat is it.....FFS

    You are not helping to create a discussion. If you can say anything positive I am happy to listen to it.


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    #1781
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,264 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    A discussion - really, is that what you call it?

    A bit like chatting about the weather.....casual chat is it.....FFS


    I think that yourself and others are choosing to reply only to the most inflammatory posts.

    There are plenty of reasoned posts out there discussing the real issues with Traveller culture in a way that doesn't stigmatise all Travellers. There is plenty of room for an educated discussion about the aspects of Traveller culture that are incompatible with a modern equality-based, enlightened and tolerant society.

    A tolerant society doesn't have to tolerate criminality, misogyny and homophobia. Taking girls out of school and marrying them off at 16 to become baby factories is not something that anyone should condone. Margaret Cash is in some ways as much a victim of Traveller culture as those farmers who are burgled every second week.

    Similarly, strict observance of Ramadan, treatment of women, the wearing of the hijab are all issues that need to be discussed when considering the how Islamic culture translates into a modern society like ours.


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    #1782
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Labelling people as an angry mob is an attempt to stifle debate, not to encourage two-way discussion.

    An angry mob would be no match for Traveller culture, Mullingar-style, all the same.

    We are subsidising an out-of-control, inbred 'clan' who want all the protections and privileges of life here, while determined to remain on the outside of society when it suits themselves. Which it overwhelmingly does most of the time.

    I presume Mullingar-style refers to that time they carried out an assault on a house?!?

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #1783
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »
    If you want to have a discussion about any of this, feel free.

    I don't know how you do it. You must have posted something very similar to that 100 times in this thread in response to someone coming in and using the same old argument.


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    #1784
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Rory28 wrote: »
    You are not helping to create a discussion. If you can say anything positive I am happy to listen to it.

    Safe to say we all are, other than a few maybe, but it never seems to come. Just outrage instead.


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    #1785
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Feisar wrote: »
    I presume Mullingar-style refers to that time they carried out an assault on a house?!?

    I think he is referencing the Mullingar soccer referee attack


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    #1786
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    You ant even go to cemetery Sunday in mullingar without armed police all over the place incase those feral fûckers kick off and there’s a riot. In an actual graveyard. Devout catholic my eye


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    #1787
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,129 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    The one next door has a succession of blokes in when her aul fella is banged up. Which is quite often.

    Brave lads.
    Feisar wrote: »
    I presume Mullingar-style refers to that time they carried out an assault on a house?!?
    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    I think he is referencing the Mullingar soccer referee attack

    Or it most probably could be this...
    From Irish Times Feb 25, 2010
    THE LEADERS of two families involved in a Traveller feud yesterday said they had agreed a truce after a Circuit Court judge sentenced 64 of them to suspended sentences arising from a riot 2½ years ago.

    Those in court, including two women, two girls and 60 men, were charged with violent disorder over a riot in Dalton Park, Mullingar, Co Westmeath, in July 2008. They received suspended sentences of between six months and four years.

    Judge Anthony Kennedy was told at a sitting of Mullingar Circuit Court, sitting in Tullamore, Co Offaly, that the riot was sparked because a member of the Nevin family had not paid a debt owed to the Dinnegan family.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/travellers-involved-in-riot-receive-suspended-sentences-1.627184

    Then again it could be this...
    An elderly woman suffered a head injury when she was hit with a rock as Travellers rioted yesterday.

    Up to 100 thugs were involved in the disgraceful scenes when two rival families clashed in Mullingar, Co Westmeath.

    Gardai seized blades, golf clubs and hammers at the scene.

    Around 2,000 people were in attendance at the Mass for Cemetery Sunday Devotions when the violence flared.

    Garda sources said it was incredible that no one was more seriously injured.

    Locals were stunned at the outbreak of violence as a long-running dispute between Travellers turned ugly.

    The elderly woman who was injured is not connected to either faction.

    Gardai managed to restore order when they ejected one of the families from the cemetery. The Garda helicopter was also deployed during the operation.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/hundreds-brawl-travellers-run-riot-2125461

    BTW where has that name Dinnegan cropped up recently ?

    Oh yeah here it is ...

    http://www.midlands103.com/news-centre/man-banned-for-ref-attack-says-assault-was-wrong/

    BTW look up Dinnegan Mullingar and you will see perfect example of the traveller cultural contribution to this country.


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    #1788
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    How in hell did everybody there get suspended sentences?

    "The families decided to settle the issue with a 30-minute fight using rocks and weapons including swords, baseball bats and pitchforks."


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    #1789
    hurler32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    Jerichoholic wrote: »
    Why not give her her own television show?

    John connors has one .. are all travellers not entitled to a show each ? ...


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    #1790
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,129 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    How in hell did everybody there get suspended sentences?

    "The families decided to settle the issue with a 30-minute fight using rocks and weapons including swords, baseball bats and pitchforks."

    Because they are a special ethnic minority protected or rather excused by
    a) the media,
    b) the politicians,
    c) the do-gooder lobby groups

    and the police/justice system is sh** scared of them to a degree.


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    #1791
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jmayo wrote: »
    Because they are a special ethnic minority protected or rather excused by
    a) the media,
    b) the politicians,
    c) the do-gooder lobby groups

    and the police/justice system is sh** scared of them to a degree.

    The answer is in the story.
    The Garda seized weapons and took 64 of them to court in fairness.
    The Judge let them off ????


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    #1792
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Margaret Cash is in some ways as much a victim of Traveller culture as those farmers who are burgled every second week.

    While Margaret Cash herself is far from blameless, I do see her as a product both of Traveller culture (which is responsible for her being taken out of school at 12, married at 15, and pregnant by 16) and the misguided welfare policies of the Irish state, which steadily increased her monthly income and eligibility for social housing as she had more and more children. She is now caught in a poverty trap -- but there's no doubt that her entire life would have been different if she had continued on in school, got a job, and delayed marriage and children until she was more financially secure.


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    #1793
    Jerichoholic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Jerichoholic


    I was at the Cemetary Sunday riot, they were throwing rocks at each other, the elderly that were there to pray for their dead were hiding behind headstones.

    Absolutely zero arrests of course. If I did that do you think I would walk away with no repercussions? Then again I wouldn't do that because I'm not a ****ing animal.


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    #1794
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    Then the state shouldn't make it so advantageous to any family to increase the numbers of their children when they can't support them.

    the state doesn't do that. there may be the odd person who has more children for the increased money, but i'm sure they find out quite quickly that it's not anywhere near profitible?
    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    Cap child benefit
    Book scheme
    etc

    capping child benefit is unlikely to work. remember, there are countries with no wellfare system whatsoever, and yet there are large families.
    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    People have to take responsibility for the circumstances of their life that they have control of. Like having children, getting an education as an adult, etc - I appreciate the children have little or no control over their circumstances.

    then you would surely appreciate why the supports the state make availible to people are availible. because of the children ultimately. you don't have to like it, but it's unlikely to change as there is quite the potential for it to cause other problems which we may potentially end up paying more to try and deal with then if we had simply continued with the supports.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1795
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    Why? Why are they entitled to it?

    because the state deems quite rightly, that the children are entitled to a decent quality of life, regardless of one's opinions of the parents.
    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    Why do people like me and my wife wait until we have steady jobs a mortgage for a house we must pay for with our own money before we start having kids? Neither of the pair of us are Einstein we just use a small bit of cop on and common sense.

    because that is what you choose ultimately to do, i'd imagine.
    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    I know people who have had accidental children. 1,2 max. Not 7.

    And I'm sorry, but whatever lefty Liberal BS spin you want to put on it those are our taxes paying for other people's irresponsibility. Seriously sick of it at this stage.

    Going out to work to pay these taxes and constantly wondering if my house is going to be broken into by the same people who's lifestyle I have to sponsor. It's ridiculous.

    As I've said already if travellers want a life that's separate to us and involves no PAYE type stuff, no education beyond a JC, travelling around from site to site I'd actually be all for it. Just keep it to themselves and don't expect the rest of us to fund it.


    it's not "lefty liberal bs" to state the realities of why the systems we have exist, and to support the existence of those systems, in recognition that without them, there are likely going to be more problems then exist with the supports continuing to exist. you aren't paying taxes for "irresponsibility" but for supports and services. if you are sick of paying taxes for such supports (by the way your tax bill wouldn't be going down if they didn't exist) then imagine how sick of paying taxes you will be for the alternative when it quite likely doesn't work?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1796
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »
    While Margaret Cash herself is far from blameless, I do see her as a product both of Traveller culture (which is responsible for her being taken out of school at 12, married at 15, and pregnant by 16) and the misguided welfare policies of the Irish state, which steadily increased her monthly income and eligibility for social housing as she had more and more children. She is now caught in a poverty trap -- but there's no doubt that her entire life would have been different if she had continued on in school, got a job, and delayed marriage and children until she was more financially secure.

    Margaret doesn't seem to have an issue with the culture at all

    "Margaret also opened up about her life as a traveller and how she became a mother to seven children by the age of 28.

    "I got married at 15," she said. "That's when I had my own family then. [As a child] my aunty fostered me and I class her kids as my own brothers and sisters.

    "I went to school until the end of primary school. Being a traveller - it's hard to explain, if you don't understand it.

    "When you're a traveller and get married, you claim your coop and have kids. I love that, I love my kids. I wouldn't change any of them for the world.

    "I just don't have a home and I don't really care what people think."

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/homeless-dublin-ireland-15036222

    Marry early check
    Have Kids early check
    Claim coop check
    Never work check


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    #1797
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    jmayo wrote: »
    BTW look up Dinnegan Mullingar and you will see perfect example of the traveller cultural contribution to this country.

    Amazing what info you can find with the right surname and town, everything from rape to stoning the elderly in there. Dalton Park sounds like a great spot to live.


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    #1798
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    end of the road wrote: »
    the state doesn't do that. there may be the odd person who has more children for the increased money, but i'm sure they find out quite quickly that it's not anywhere near profitible?



    capping child benefit is unlikely to work. remember, there are countries with no wellfare system whatsoever, and yet there are large families.



    then you would surely appreciate why the supports the state make availible to people are availible. because of the children ultimately. you don't have to like it, but it's unlikely to change as there is quite the potential for it to cause other problems which we may potentially end up paying more to try and deal with then if we had simply continued with the supports.

    Here we go again, the ridiculous "pay up or they'll rob us blind" argument.

    I've had enough of it. No more.

    We need welfare reforms now, if it means putting that money into increased law and order so be it and if we need to bring in food stamps and workhouses then fine, I've no issue with that.

    I DO have an issue with the constant defending of these people who have no idea what it is like to go to work and have to pay for everything. Let's not forget the fragrant Ms Cash takes home roughly 3 times what someone on the average industrial wage takes home; still gets EVERYTHING for free and then steals on top of that!

    Well you might be fine and dandy with being bled dry but I'n not. And I doubt many others are too.


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    #1799
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Here we go again, the ridiculous "pay up or they'll rob us blind" argument.

    I've had enough of it. No more.

    We need welfare reforms now, if it means putting that money into increased law and order so be it and if we need to bring in food stamps and workhouses then fine, I've no issue with that.

    I DO have an issue with the constant defending of these people who have no idea what it is like to go to work and have to pay for everything. Let's not forget the fragrant Ms Cash takes home roughly 4 times what someone on the average industrial wage takes home; still gets EVERYTHING for free and then steals on top of that!

    Well you might be fine and dandy with being bled dry but I'n not. And I doubt many others are too.

    Ah the righteous working man :P Of course you'd never spend your day posting comments on a chat forum, because you work so hard isn't that right.


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    #1800
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Margaret doesn't seem to have an issue with the culture at all

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/homeless-dublin-ireland-15036222

    "Some of them even work, and they just can't afford a mortgage to put a roof over their head".

    Imagine! The mad b*stards!


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    #1801
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,556 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Jerichoholic wrote: »
    I was at the Cemetary Sunday riot, they were throwing rocks at each other, the elderly that were there to pray for their dead were hiding behind headstones.

    Absolutely zero arrests of course. If I did that do you think I would walk away with no repercussions? Then again I wouldn't do that because I'm not a ****ing animal.

    I believe the blessing of the graves ceremony that takes place during the summer is a no go for lots of folks due to the behavior of certain families.

    It is disgusting that the Gardai have to be present at this ceremony just to ensure that there is no fighting during by feuding families and that other people cannot attend for fear of getting caught up in the trouble caused by these feuds.

    So much for god fearing and being respectful.


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