Dairy Chitchat 3

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And, with respect, Dawg, trying to shoehorn regulations for a continental climate into a maritime climate is ludicrous situation.

You can tell, within reason, the likely weather you will have on 1st May and can work around that. We have to work within the weather regardless of what lads with soft hands and low shoes tell us, that's just the way it is.

We had ideal conditions for spreading before Christmas, ground conditions ideal, weather dry and warm, good growth (averaging 8kgsDM/Ha/day during December) and good ability of grass to absorb the slurry and do it well before any deterioration in weather. Yet we were not permitted to spread.

We are now in a situation where growth is near 0 here, land waterlogged, conditions poor for the foreseeable future yet we are allowed spread. I certainly didn't want to but I'm working within the idiocy that we are forced to follow. Plenty of lads spread in December and they're under no pressure to spread now.

Which of the two periods do you think will lead to more risk of pollution, Dawg? I'd be 100% certain the lads spreading during the before Christmas conditions are at a much lower risk of pollution than idiots like me that decide to abide by the rules and regulations and have to spread now.

Soft hands and low shoes --- LOVE IT.

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And, with respect, Dawg, trying to shoehorn regulations for a continental climate into a maritime climate is ludicrous situation.

You can tell, within reason, the likely weather you will have on 1st May and can work around that. We have to work within the weather regardless of what lads with soft hands and low shoes tell us, that's just the way it is.

We had ideal conditions for spreading before Christmas, ground conditions ideal, weather dry and warm, good growth (averaging 8kgsDM/Ha/day during December) and good ability of grass to absorb the slurry and do it well before any deterioration in weather. Yet we were not permitted to spread.

We are now in a situation where growth is near 0 here, land waterlogged, conditions poor for the foreseeable future yet we are allowed spread. I certainly didn't want to but I'm working within the idiocy that we are forced to follow. Plenty of lads spread in December and they're under no pressure to spread now.

Which of the two periods do you think will lead to more risk of pollution, Dawg? I'd be 100% certain the lads spreading during the before Christmas conditions are at a much lower risk of pollution than idiots like me that decide to abide by the rules and regulations and have to spread now.

You could look at it from the point of view that they left it up to farmers to know their own land and local weather to plan for more than a minimum amount of storage IF it was necessary for their conditions/stocking rates. If lads wont voluntarily put in extra capacity that could do with it and pollution occurs from spreading in the open season, it will just mean that everyone could be forced to put in extra storage.

Panch18

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

You could look at it from the point of view that they left it up to farmers to know their own land and local weather to plan for more than a minimum amount of storage IF it was necessary for their conditions/stocking rates. If lads wont voluntarily put in extra capacity that could do with it and pollution occurs from spreading in the open season, it will just mean that everyone could be forced to put in extra storage.

out of interest how many animals are you storing slurry for and what kind of storage facilities do you have??

yosemitesam1

Panch18 wrote: »

out of interest how many animals are you storing slurry for and what kind of storage facilities do you have??

outwinter mainly and don't fancy having to build sheds because of ye highly stocked lads

Panch18

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

outwinter mainly and don't fancy having to build sheds because of ye highly stocked lads

do you have sufficient storage for the stock that you are outwintering? What kind of storage do you have?

alps

It's not within the Irish mindset to obey rules. It has to have something to do with our colonisation. Our immediate response to any rule, is how do we get around that..

Other countries adopted separate nutrient vulnerable zones and applied closed periods to those. The workable solution for Ireland was to class it all NVZ and apply the closed period to the lot...

Bufords point about growth and utilising slurry in winter is valid, for very short windows of time, on very good ground. If this was allowed, how much abuse of the rule would occur?

Considering that currently 50% of all agricultural runoff occurs during the closed period...thats during the 12 weeks that we "spread no slurry"...how bad would things get of spreading was allowed on "good" days.?

We're not fooling anyone, and I know we have the issue and abuse with domestic waste entering the rivers, but we all see what's going on regarding closed periods, firing it out before rain, and the council's see it too and so does Joe Public...

The only losers here will be ourselves..

Can we honestly say that being able to hold slurry for just 12 weeks is sufficient? We have more than half a winter done since the season opened, and with our massive reliance on contractors to get the job done, we need massive windows of opportunity even to get the thing spread.

Slurry capacity is more dependent on your own circumstances, land type, stocking rate, self or contractor spread, than it is at all to do with the length or timing of a closed period.

yosemitesam1

Panch18 wrote: »

do you have sufficient storage for the stock that you are outwintering? What kind of storage do you have?

When they're in they're on straw and have adequate storage for what's there. But just under a quarter of the farm is scrub and the farm is dry. So coming from inheriting a fairly rundown place if sheds/storage had to be built for increases in numbers here, I'd just be putting that money elsewhere where it will give a better return and keep a low stocking rate instead

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And, with respect, Dawg, trying to shoehorn regulations for a continental climate into a maritime climate is ludicrous situation.

You can tell, within reason, the likely weather you will have on 1st May and can work around that. We have to work within the weather regardless of what lads with soft hands and low shoes tell us, that's just the way it is.

We had ideal conditions for spreading before Christmas, ground conditions ideal, weather dry and warm, good growth (averaging 8kgsDM/Ha/day during December) and good ability of grass to absorb the slurry and do it well before any deterioration in weather. Yet we were not permitted to spread.

We are now in a situation where growth is near 0 here, land waterlogged, conditions poor for the foreseeable future yet we are allowed spread. I certainly didn't want to but I'm working within the idiocy that we are forced to follow. Plenty of lads spread in December and they're under no pressure to spread now.

Which of the two periods do you think will lead to more risk of pollution, Dawg? I'd be 100% certain the lads spreading during the before Christmas conditions are at a much lower risk of pollution than idiots like me that decide to abide by the rules and regulations and have to spread now.

When I came here first the closed season ran from 1st Dec to 15th Jan. It’s now 1st Nov to 1st March. Two winters ago there was dust flying all winter and the irrigation lakes didn’t even fill...so what?
The decision of when to spread and when not to spread has been taken out of farmers hands with quite a while, and rightly so.
There are plenty folk that like to complain about the Brazilians wrecking their environment to produce more gmo soya and maize, yet at home polluting the environment to produce more milk, using said gmo’s is OK? Hmmm.

The very nub of the issue is that the Gov grant aided the building of slurry storage to the tune of millions of euros, and thus are slow to enforce and/or extend storage due to the inherent cost...

Funny that the hormone ban on beef animals is enforced, while the pollution controls are widely ignored?

***Alps post explains the situation very well indeed.

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

It's not within the Irish mindset to obey rules. It has to have something to do with our colonisation. Our immediate response to any rule, is how do we get around that..

Other countries adopted separate nutrient vulnerable zones and applied closed periods to those. The workable solution for Ireland was to class it all NVZ and apply the closed period to the lot...

Bufords point about growth and utilising slurry in winter is valid, for very short windows of time, on very good ground. If this was allowed, how much abuse of the rule would occur?

Considering that currently 50% of all agricultural runoff occurs during the closed period...thats during the 12 weeks that we "spread no slurry"...how bad would things get of spreading was allowed on "good" days.?

We're not fooling anyone, and I know we have the issue and abuse with domestic waste entering the rivers, but we all see what's going on regarding closed periods, firing it out before rain, and the council's see it too and so does Joe Public...

The only losers here will be ourselves..

Can we honestly say that being able to hold slurry for just 12 weeks is sufficient? We have more than half a winter done since the season opened, and with our massive reliance on contractors to get the job done, we need massive windows of opportunity even to get the thing spread.

Slurry capacity is more dependent on your own circumstances, land type, stocking rate, self or contractor spread, than it is at all to do with the length or timing of a closed period.

+1...Nailed it.

K.G.

I have never met a fella yet that regretted putting in more storage.i ve plenty of fellas that said they should have put in more .it dosent make sense having the storage requirements the same length as the closed period.the only ill say is while our rivers are deteriorating we are wasting our breath complaining about calendar farming.until we see water quality improving regs are only going to go one way.i see fellas shooting off roadways in November this year.i mean for f##k sake

Panch18

And when you spread slurry in summer virtually all of the nitrogen is “lost”

But that’s not pollution I suppose

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

I have never met a fella yet that regretted putting in more storage.i ve plenty of fellas that said they should have put in more .it dosent make sense having the storage requirements the same length as the closed period.the only ill say is while our rivers are deteriorating we are wasting our breath complaining about calendar farming.until we see water quality improving regs are only going to go one way.i see fellas shooting off roadways in November this year.i mean for f##k sake

I’ve photos on the phone of a former employee firing slurry into a flooded field, not just standing water, but actual flowing river water...his orders were to keep spreading until the tank was down by 2ft.
People like that ruin it for everyone.

Mooooo

I've seen vids on their own social media accounts of a farmer in the UK using the raingun on saturated ground. And it's an account that is wide open for public viewing.

straight

Mooooo wrote: »

I've seen vids on their own social media accounts of a farmer in the UK using the raingun on saturated ground. And it's an account that is wide open for public viewing.

I don't think they have a closed period in uk

Mooooo

straight wrote: »

I don't think they have a closed period in uk

Regardless of closed period didn't think that would fly in any country. Esp when put up on social media

Waffletraktor

straight wrote: »

I don't think they have a closed period in uk

There are nvz's for most of the Uk these days same as nitrates for you with cut off dates and the likes, fert allowances are laid out in RB209 guidlines for virtually all forms and rates of fert and relates to previous inputs/ yield eg, and if cultivations or anything occured.
https://ahdb.org.uk/nutrient-management-guide-rb209

straight

K.G. wrote: »

I have never met a fella yet that regretted putting in more storage.i ve plenty of fellas that said they should have put in more .it dosent make sense having the storage requirements the same length as the closed period.the only ill say is while our rivers are deteriorating we are wasting our breath complaining about calendar farming.until we see water quality improving regs are only going to go one way.i see fellas shooting off roadways in November this year.i mean for f##k sake

I've way more storage than required but I'd always like to have more. It offers so much flexibility especially when you can't get the contractor during the busy periods.

Say my name

Maybe it's my imagination running riot again.

But say if the coronavirus does become a thing in Ireland in the near future.
Ai ing cows could become a bit difficult in the upcoming breeding season.
You could also say milk collections could be difficult. But there's probably more lorry drivers qualified to fill in for people off sick than there are ai technicians that have time and would be able to fill in.
Maybe if you have a working bull maybe make sure he's ready to fill in for some "off sick" days in case nobody turns up.

The middle of April won't be long coming around.

Castlekeeper

Panch18 wrote: »

And when you spread slurry in summer virtually all of the nitrogen is “lost”

But that’s not pollution I suppose

Not if you use a low emission spreader and spread in overcast /damp conditions. Why would one be using a spashplate in the blazing sun and buying lorry loads of protected urea?

Castlekeeper

Say my name wrote: »

Maybe it's my imagination running riot again.

But say if the coronavirus does become a thing in Ireland in the near future.
Ai ing cows could become a bit difficult in the upcoming breeding season.
You could also say milk collections could be difficult. But there's probably more lorry drivers qualified to fill in for people off sick than there are ai technicians that have time and would be able to fill in.
Maybe if you have a working bull maybe make sure he's ready to fill in for some "off sick" days in case nobody turns up.

The middle of April won't be long coming around.

I'd be more worried about this year's calves getting it!

Say my name

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'd be more worried about this year's calves getting it!

I was just saying last night to the auld lad that this year's calves are some of the healthiest we've ever had. This weather is really suiting them in the sheds.
It's usually when it gets milder that you get any problems.

I know you're gone away from it all. But have you heard anything of C.A.N being coated in seaweed coating in this country? Some nice efficiencies being quoted on trials. It looks a better safer alternative than the chemical treated urea that's being pushed by teagasc.

Panch18

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Not if you use a low emission spreader and spread in overcast /damp conditions. Why would one be using a spashplate in the blazing sun and buying lorry loads of protected urea?

So you want bright sunny days to cut your silage and then the very next day you want damp overcast conditions to spread your slurry after the silage - you don't ask for much

Everybody knows that overcast damp conditions are best for slurry spreading - that's what makes spreading a good winters day the BEST option for nitrogen utilisation - but its banned

All i am saying is that every farmer that is farming to any kind of intensive level has found themselves in the same position as Bufford - full tanks and ****e weather. I certainly have.

Sensible rules is the way forward - there were perfect spreading conditions in Dec and Jan and we were sat on our hands looking out at it and now tanks full all over the country

roosterman71

On the way home yesterday evening I seen a lad out with his tanker spreading on a side of a bit of a hill. At the bottom of the hill was a lake from the heavy rain. I'm guessing the lad had no option but to try lower his tanks somewhat

Panch18

Well here's a potential suggestion.

Why don't we form cooperatives or local depots for slurry storage? so something like a huge lagoon or tower be constructed in every parish and local farmers can drop slurry in there to get them past bad weather events like this. Farmers would only use it when really necessary as it would cost them to transport it to the shared location and they would have to take the slurry back when the weather improves. You could have local tillage lads taking from the depot as well. Farmers could still be obliged to have their 12 weeks storage or whatever it is.

It seems madness to me that every farmer in the country is pouring money into concrete tanks and extra capacity when it might only be used every few years. Have a set amount that a farmer must have - such as the current situation, but rather than impose more costs on individuals to increase this take a more joined up approach to it and have shared storage

Gillespy

Best time to spread slurry is when you're rising dust in the long summer days with some rain in the forecast. Are you better chasing some small bit of nitrogen in iffy conditions in the spring making a mess of gaps and roads, compacting ground etc? Umbilical and rainguns onto near saturated ground like now? No brainer. In good conditions like last spring, spread as much as you can but springs like this, I think mid June is better.

The more storage you have to more responsibility the farmer should get regarding spreading dates. It's 2020, the majority of us left are pretty professional. We have some understanding of soil health, worms, compaction etc and of course pollution risks. If I can show I have say 20 weeks storage, I should be left alone to spread any day I think is best.

mahoney_j

Panch18 wrote: »

So you want bright sunny days to cut your silage and then the very next day you want damp overcast conditions to spread your slurry after the silage - you don't ask for much

Everybody knows that overcast damp conditions are best for slurry spreading - that's what makes spreading a good winters day the BEST option for nitrogen utilisation - but its banned

All i am saying is that every farmer that is farming to any kind of intensive level has found themselves in the same position as Bufford - full tanks and ****e weather. I certainly have.

Sensible rules is the way forward - there were perfect spreading conditions in Dec and Jan and we were sat on our hands looking out at it and now tanks full all over the country

On the money ......but common sense is just been sucked out of farming by pen pushers .regardless of what these idiots come up with us farmers in the ground aren’t thick and from experience we know u can’t farm by calendar dates

Say my name

Panch18 wrote: »

Well here's a potential suggestion.

Why don't we form cooperatives or local depots for slurry storage? so something like a huge lagoon or tower be constructed in every parish and local farmers can drop slurry in there to get them past bad weather events like this. Farmers would only use it when really necessary as it would cost them to transport it to the shared location and they would have to take the slurry back when the weather improves. You could have local tillage lads taking from the depot as well. Farmers could still be obliged to have their 12 weeks storage or whatever it is.

It seems madness to me that every farmer in the country is pouring money into concrete tanks and extra capacity when it might only be used every few years. Have a set amount that a farmer must have - such as the current situation, but rather than impose more costs on individuals to increase this take a more joined up approach to it and have shared storage

Too much of a disease and virus risk.
If overflow communal tanks were to be a thing. Then it could only be tillage farmers that be allowed to draw from it.

Not being funny but the slurry from my own farm could be nutritionally and bacterial better than anyone else's in tank. I wouldn't want my good stuff that I've spent years getting to this level be going to someone else and crap literally coming back onto the farm. And then the disease point as above and who knows what substances any other farmers were treating their stock with that would be too much of a risk to your own soil health plan.

stanflt

Say my name wrote: »

Too much of a disease and virus risk.
If overflow communal tanks were to be a thing. Then it could only be tillage farmers that be allowed to draw from it.

Not being funny but the slurry from my own farm could be nutritionally and bacterial better than anyone else's in tank. I wouldn't want my good stuff that I've spent years getting to this level be going to someone else and crap literally coming back onto the farm. And then the disease point as above and who knows what substances any other farmers were treating their stock with that would be too much of a risk to your own soil health plan.

Very true




But can’t help but thinking that you think your **** is better than everyone else- sorry I couldn’t resist

Say my name

stanflt wrote: »

Very true




But can’t help but thinking that you think your **** is better than everyone else- sorry I couldn’t resist

Oh it is.

stanflt

Say my name wrote: »

Oh it is.

My granny told me once that self praise is no praise
I replied well it’s better than no praise