Are short men disadvantaged in the dating world?

One eyed Jack

lukin wrote: »

It's no surprise that some women get all stroppy and defensive when these simple facts are pointed out to them and label me with terms like "resentful", "obsessive" etc. because it's not seen as socially acceptable to say "I won't date a guy because he is shorter than me. I don't hate him, I like him in fact but I just won't be his girlfriend". But why is that not socially acceptable? I see nothing wrong with it at all.
I have often read/heard things like "If a girl won't date you because of your height then she is not worth bothering with anyway". I disagree with this completely and have said so and been attacked for it in person and online.
I respect women enormously and if you knew me personally you would see that. You are just misunderstanding my argument completely.

I can understand why anyone would get annoyed when you’re trying to put words in their mouths and then criticising them for not admitting the words you want to hear. I just don’t see what it would do for you? Would it make you any taller? Or is it to make women feel smaller?

Like this idea that being small in stature in straight men is a disadvantage in competing against other men for straight women’s attention? That’s not women’s fault. They have nothing to admit to, and it certainly does come across as obsessive and resentful when you try to make a point of it as though women owe men something. You don’t suggest that taller men should stand back and give the little guy a chance for instance? Quite likely because you know you’ll be told where to go, so it’s easier to try and do it to women because they won’t be as quick to tell you to take a running jump. They’re being polite, because they can sense it’s probably something you’re sensitive about.

Galwayguy35

Being a shortarse doesn't seem to have done Bernie Ecclestone any harm, his wives were giants compared to him and stunners as well.

Even our little President got himself a wife.

Triceratops Ballet

lukin wrote: »

OK I made a mistake when I said "I don't hate women for preferring tall guys". I should have said "some women". Reading back my post I generalised a bit and I apologise for that, I did it without thinking. However it seems to be the exact percentage of these women that I am being challenged on. The figure of 50% is accurate I think and the ladies lounge poll that I mentioned backs this up. Close enough to that percentage said they would not date a guy shorter than them. Reading that in black and white that means they would not date a guy shorter than them under any circumstances, including if he had bags of confidence. This notion that if a girl who is in that 50% meets a short guy who is really confident will then overlook his height completely because of that and see him in exactly the same light as a guy of six feet tall is simply laughable.
The "you need to work on other parts of yourself", "what else are you bringing to the table" etc. is the usual tired response that is given to short guys who state that they are disadvantaged in the dating world. But the bald facts are that having confidence will not help one jot with some women. Height supersedes confidence in their eyes. Not in all cases I must stress but yes I believe the figure of 50% is accurate.
Again, facts bear this out; the average height of an Irish female is 5 feet 6 (not 5 foot 4 as incorrectly said by someone else). They wear high heels when they are out and obviously their boyfriend is going to be with them on most social occasions so this height is 5 foot 8 in reality. So you can see how the figure of 50% is arrived at. The ladies lounge poll should actually have asked "Would you date a guy shorter than you when you are wearing high heels?" and then the figure of 50% would rocket I assure you.
It's no surprise that some women get all stroppy and defensive when these simple facts are pointed out to them and label me with terms like "resentful", "obsessive" etc. because it's not seen as socially acceptable to say "I won't date a guy because he is shorter than me. I don't hate him, I like him in fact but I just won't be his girlfriend". But why is that not socially acceptable? I see nothing wrong with it at all.
I have often read/heard things like "If a girl won't date you because of your height then she is not worth bothering with anyway". I disagree with this completely and have said so and been attacked for it in person and online.
I respect women enormously and if you knew me personally you would see that. You are just misunderstanding my argument completely.

The problem is you're trying to sell people the idea that this is a black and white thing and it's not. I'm just under 5'9, if you asked me off the cuff do I date short guys, my answer is probably going to be no. If you ask me what height I like my men to be I'll say ideally 6'2- infinity(!) however in my actual life I've only dated one man in that height range. The majority of men I have dated have been between my height and 5'11. so you're not wrong, in theory women do like tall men, in practice it's not that simple.

Achasanai

lukin wrote: »

The average height of an Irish female is 5 foot 6. However most women wear high heels at social events so that adds on another 2 inches. The average height of an Irish male is 5 foot 9.
So if you are a man who is two or three inches below average height 50 percent of females will not be interested in you. I know that poll said "shorter than you" but you can equate that with " same height as you" because they won't date a guy fhe same height as them either.

I think it's the difference between an online poll and what you would do in real life.


We all have our ideals and I'm sure you have certain things in a girl you would or wouldn't allow, but in real life, you will make exceptions depending on the person who is right there in front of you.

lukin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Like this idea that being small in stature in straight men is a disadvantage in competing against other men for straight women’s attention? That’s not women’s fault.

Show me where I said it was their fault.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They have nothing to admit to, and it certainly does come across as obsessive and resentful when you try to make a point of it as though women owe men something.

Actually you'll find I said the opposite. Again, show me where I said "Women should date short guys instead of tall guys and are despicable human beings for not doing so". They are entitled to prefer tall men to short men if they so choose.
It's just the way they get all bent out of shape when someone says it.

antietam1

Tall guy myself and knew really funny nice guys who could not even get a girl to go to the pictures with them.
Girls would say they only wanted to meet a nice fella but not those guys.
And yet girls would ask why guys liked girls with big boobs, I would answer for similar reasons to your height requirements.

armaghlad

antietam1 wrote: »

Tall guy myself and new really funny nice guys who could not even get a girl to go to the pictures with them.
Girls would say they only wanted to meet a nice fella but not those guys.
And yet girls would ask why guys liked girls with big boobs, I would answer for similar reasons to your height requirements.

Their tinder bios be like “what do you call guys under 6 foot? Friends”

Yet I’m a shallow c@nt for saying “no fatties” on mine!

wakka12

lukin wrote: »

There was a poll with a thread on this subject in the ladies lounge forum (you can find it if you look for it). 43% of women said they would not date a guy who was shorter than them. I would say the real figure is higher because some of those who said yes probably would not do it if they had to make that choice in a real-life situation.
So there you have it lads; 50 percent of the female population is unavaialble to you if you are short.

well 50% is an exaggeration seeing as most the vast majority of men are taller than the vast majority of women,even a man of a height as short as 5'6'' will be taller than a large proportion of women, they said he just needs to be taller than them, not tall

lukin

wakka12 wrote: »

well 50% is an exaggeration seeing as most the vast majority of men are taller than the vast majority of women,even a man of a height as short as 5'6'' will be taller than a large proportion of women, they said he just needs to be taller than them, not tall

I respectfully disagree that 50% is an exaggeration but you have the right to hold your opinion. I made the point about the high heels making a woman taller and I am surmising that is maybe why some women said "no I would not date a man shorter than me" in that poll.
You must also bear in mind that there are probably some really small women (in the range of five feet to five feet 4 inches) who will not date a guy of 5 foot 6 inches. They want a guy of 5 feet 9 or maybe even six feet. There are probably not many of them admittedly but on the law of averages they must exist.

Triceratops Ballet

You're putting way too much emphasis on a random poll in the ladies lounge. How many responses were there? Do you know that all respondants were actually women? The LL is notoriously quiet compared to other fora and loads of meaningless polls are created on this site every day, do you give them all the same credence?

wakka12

lukin wrote: »

I respectfully disagree that 50% is an exaggeration but you have the right to hold your opinion. I made the point about the high heels making a woman taller and I am surmising that is maybe why some women said "no I would not date a man shorter than me" in that poll.
You must also bear in mind that there are probably some really small women (in the range of five feet to five feet 4 inches) who will not date a guy of 5 foot 6 inches. They want a guy of 5 feet 9 or maybe even six feet. There are probably not many of them admittedly but on the law of averages they must exist.

But why does it bother you so much that girls like that with admittedly ridiculous requirements exist? Its just the way it is unfortunately and theres nothing that will change their preference.Just dont think about them, youll be a lot happier, theres more than enough women out there that will like you for traits other than your height

I just find conversations like this so depressing because theres so much more to life, theres so many thousands of people around the world bedridden for life with diseases and illnesses or are deformed or disabled who would give anything to live as a normal healthy person whos a bit shorter than average, Im sure this could come off as patronising but a bit of persoective could go a long way

ginandtonicsky

antietam1 wrote: »

Tall guy myself and knew really funny nice guys who could not even get a girl to go to the pictures with them.
Girls would say they only wanted to meet a nice fella but not those guys.
And yet girls would ask why guys liked girls with big boobs, I would answer for similar reasons to your height requirements.

Which girls are asking which guys why they like big boobs? It's not a universal fact btw, some guys want less than a handful.

This incredibly black-and-white way of talking about the sexes where there's no room for nuance or the discrepancies between an online profile and real-life is just boring and lacking serious depth tbh.

Your judgement of which men are really nice and really funny is irrelevant tbh. Are you willing to have sex with them yourself? Sexual attraction runs a lot deeper than "he's a great guy" as you well know, given the big boobs comparison.

One eyed Jack

lukin wrote: »

Show me where I said it was their fault.

Actually you'll find I said the opposite. Again, show me where I said "Women should date short guys instead of tall guys and are despicable human beings for not doing so". They are entitled to prefer tall men to short men if they so choose.
It's just the way they get all bent out of shape when someone says it.

It’s just the way you make it sound, as though it’s their fault they have no interest in dating short men. It’s not really a dating ‘preference’ as such, it’s just what many women find attractive - tall men.

Does that mean men who are short are at a disadvantage? Of course not, as they may still be attractive to many women in spite of their height. That’s why you won’t find too many women who will say it’s because of your height they wouldn’t date you, but far more likely they wouldn’t date you because of the way you imagine they should feel about your height.

Anyone gets bent out of shape when someone else tries to put words in their mouth that they didn’t say.

lukin

wakka12 wrote: »

But why does it bother you so much that girls like that with admittedly ridiculous requirements exist?

It doesn't bother me that they exist, it bothers me (a little) that so many people deny they exist. There was a poster earlier who said "is being a short man a disadvantage in dating? Probably". But there is no "probably" about it. The last poster said that short men are not at a disadvantage. I just cannot understand how anyone can say that. It flies in the face of reason.
You'd be amazed the number of people (male and female) that screw their noses up when you say "a large percentage of women prefer tall men".

One eyed Jack

lukin wrote: »

It doesn't bother me that they exist, it bothers me (a little) that so many people deny they exist. There was a poster earlier who said "is being a short man a disadvantage in dating? Probably". But there is no "probably" about it. The last poster said that short men are not at a disadvantage. I just cannot understand how anyone can say that. It flies in the face of reason.
You'd be amazed the number of people (male and female) that screw their noses up when you say "a large percentage of women prefer tall men".

It flies in the face of reason if you’re self-conscious about your height. You’re making the whole idea of attraction solely about height! Most people simply don’t do that, so they’re not going to ‘admit’ that they wouldn’t date someone short, because it generally doesn’t occur to them. If you were to press someone on it, they’re screwing up their noses at your pressing them on anything, as if they owe you an explanation. That’s what I meant earlier when I said it comes off like you feel women owe you something. I should have clarified - it comes off like you feel they owe you an explanation.

Suggesting that being short is a disadvantage in dating is like someone you don’t find attractive suggesting that ‘your dating preferences are discriminatory’. Well, yes, they are discriminatory, but not in any sense that it’s somehow ‘unfair’ on someone if you wouldn’t date them.

lukin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

because it generally doesn’t occur to them.

I think that is incredibly naive.

One eyed Jack

lukin wrote: »

I think that is incredibly naive.

What I mean by that is they’re generally not actually actively looking for short lads to point out that they wouldn’t want to date them. They’re generally looking for the tallest lad in the room, or, on whatever dating app they be on. They’re nothing if not ambitious, and that makes them no different from yourself who isn’t preoccupied with women you wouldn’t want to date, if you get me?

lukin

I still find it absolutely astonishing that someone can think that a short guy stands an equal chance to a tall guy in the dating stakes.
As a person already stated, a "head-turner" would never choose a short guy. I've never seen it anway. In college,among people I know and work with and places I have worked in the past I have never seen an attractive girl with a short guy. Don't attack me for it and I'm not trying to be a WUM. I'm just saying what I've seen.

ginandtonicsky

I've seen it plenty of times. The lads were by no means shortchanged (pardoning pun) in the dating stakes due to their heights though. They had lots of attractive things going on.

Vogue Williams and Spencer Matthews is an example. He's about 5"7.

It's so weird and unsettling how unwilling you are to let this go. Lots of women love tall men, by no means "all women" and also by no means leaving no romantic hope for the shorter guys out there. Statistically most people settle down with someone or multiple partners over the course of their lives, therefore lots of women are coupling up with shorter men every day.

But if it makes you feel strangely better about yourself by thinking of yourself as totally disadvantaged and with less chance than your male peers in the dating world, then go right ahead and think it. Guaranteed the attitude will be far more of a turn-off than your lack of height.

seenitall

I am 44 y.o. and 5'3". I get asked out a good bit in the usual age range, shall we say.

My last guy was 51 and 5'4". He's funny, engaging and very cute. It fell through as he seems to have some commitment issues, alas.

FWIW.

Daisy78

wakka12 wrote: »

I just find conversations like this so depressing because theres so much more to life, theres so many thousands of people around the world bedridden for life with diseases and illnesses or are deformed or disabled who would give anything to live as a normal healthy person whos a bit shorter than average, Im sure this could come off as patronising but a bit of persoective could go a long way

Amen to this. There are people lying in hospitals and hospices around the country who swap their problems for yours in an instant.

For what it's worth I have always tended to fancy smaller men over their taller counterparts. Now I'm 5ft 4 so maybe subconsciously I was more attracted to shorter guys because they were a better fit for me height wise. But really what it came down to was these men always had other attractive traits (both in terms of physicality and personality) that made them stand out. Give me a short guy with nice eyes, a great smile who can flirt any day over a tall bloke any day. Yes there are women who prefer height but they are not the ones you should focus on, there are plenty others who won't factor height into their decision to go on a date with you, they are the ones you need to pursue.

lukin

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Vogue Williams and Spencer Matthews is an example. He's about 5"7.

Yeah, one example of a male celebrity who is short and is married to a female celebrity who is taller than him. One example and this plants the idea in people's head that it is commonplace (when it is not). I could find you twenty other famous couples where the exact opposite is the case.

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

leaving no romantic hope for the shorter guys out there.

Again, someone twisting my words (and not for the first time in this thread). I never said that. I just said they were at a significant disadvantage.

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Guaranteed the attitude will be far more of a turn-off than your lack of height.

I don't get this idea that my "attitude" is a turn-off for women. I don't project it in anyway to people. I have never brought it up in conversation with a girl, I don't wear it on a sandwich board around my neck. If they are somehow able to intuitively sense this when I talk to them then that is quite remarkable.It's just something I've noticed and as a result I wouldn't attempt to chat up a girl who was taller/same height as me. I just believe I wouldn't stand much of a chance. That's my right and hopefully girls will respect that in the same way I respect the right some of them have to not be interested in guys that are shorter than them.

completedit

Reality is, all else being equal,  it's better to be taller and larger framed. Most people are average looking but with a big frame and height, you can stand out. Short guys don't have this luxury. Now, often shorter peoples faces are actually more attractive and proportioned but the problem with that is looks are more open to interpretation, height isn't. So a girl can say she got the ''tall, dark and handsome'' guy even if really his looks aren't that conventionally handsome, they aren't off-putting either. Remember also that women don't judge guys compared to themselves, they judge guys based on fellow men, so saying as long as you're taller than the girl or whatever doesn't hold in this case because you're being judged against your fellow male classmates,friends,workers. It's a huge problem to be honest, I'm 5'8'', tbh I'm more concerned about my face than my height, I've never felt self-conscious about it but it does seem that this height closes off a lot of possibilities, you don't even get thought about in that way. All tall guys have to do is show up and they'll at least be in the race, regardless of their looks. It's a never ending struggle tbh, not sure I'll be able to cope too much longer with ambivalence from the opposite sex. You keep coping telling yourself, oh if I just keep working out, eating well, sprinting, buying clothes, gaining experiences, girls will finally wake up and see your potential but it has never happened to me.

lukin

completedit wrote: »

Reality is, all else being equal,  it's better to be taller and larger framed. Most people are average looking but with a big frame and height, you can stand out. Short guys don't have this luxury. Now, often shorter peoples faces are actually more attractive and proportioned but the problem with that is looks are more open to interpretation, height isn't. So a girl can say she got the ''tall, dark and handsome'' guy even if really his looks aren't that conventionally handsome, they aren't off-putting either. Remember also that women don't judge guys compared to themselves, they judge guys based on fellow men, so saying as long as you're taller than the girl or whatever doesn't hold in this case because you're being judged against your fellow male classmates,friends,workers. It's a huge problem to be honest, I'm 5'8'', tbh I'm more concerned about my face than my height, I've never felt self-conscious about it but it does seem that this height closes off a lot of possibilities, you don't even get thought about in that way. All tall guys have to do is show up and they'll at least be in the race, regardless of their looks. It's a never ending struggle tbh, not sure I'll be able to cope too much longer with ambivalence from the opposite sex. You keep coping telling yourself, oh if I just keep working out, eating well, sprinting, buying clothes, gaining experiences, girls will finally wake up and see your potential but it has never happened to me.

Finally some sense. No doubt this guy will also be attacked and have words put in his mouth too.

completedit

Yeah man. I just wish people would stop being disingenuous. Women, or most of them aren't going out of their way to ignore/reject shorter guys. They are conditioned by the media/evolution to search for certain things. The problem is like anything, reinforcing feedback loops create an overriding preference and one of these is that women don't tend to go for shorter guys. Yes some guys can slip through the cracks but in general, you're at an immediate disadvantage. You better have good enough looks to compensate. I think if you have the required looks though, most women will preference that over height, unless the other guy is equal facially and 6'2.
My cousin is one the best looking guys I know, he's not a model or anything but he just looks so sharp and better looking than any Irish guy that's thought of as handsome. He's a bit older(like early 40's) but looks better than guys 15 years his junior. He must be about 5'5'' because I tower over him, he managed to get girls in spite of his height but by god if he had've been even 5'8'' even he could have gotten any girl he wanted. Maybe he's an inspiration, I don't know, he has a good personality with good looks(like I say most guys in Ireland or anywhere aren't facially impressive so when a guy is, they can get away with being shorter)

Potatoeman

Height is an advantage but guys can make this up in other areas, even looks can be made up for in other areas. Though not so much for women, looks matter more for men so a guy will sleep with a girl and never intend to take it further. So women can hit above their weight for flings but it’s unlikely to turn into a relationship whereas guys can hit above their weight for relationships.

Getting in shape will improve things for you in clubs and initial interactions but you still need social skills to flirt, pick the right time to make the right move. Simple things like smiling more and having fun yourself first can do way more than bulking up in the gym or being tall.

Triceratops Ballet

completedit wrote: »

Remember also that women don't judge guys compared to themselves, they judge guys based on fellow men, so saying as long as you're taller than the girl or whatever doesn't hold in this case because you're being judged against your fellow male

I wouldn't speak for all women (like you have done) but I do judge mens height relative to my own, and I do not judge men against each other.
I don't get men to stand in a line and compare them and pick the one I want. I judge each man individually as he presents to me. The actual world where people meet is nothing like tinder.
If women were to judge men against all other available men, that would be insane. People meet people and they fall for them, human mating doesn't fit into some sort of linear plan where you have the we all judge phase and we all settle down phase, people pair off at different rates

completedit

Nah gym does nothing, I'm like 10 per cent bodyfat, pretty strong, sprint regularly, zero attention from women. My face(depending on what time of day you catch it at, lighting etc.) I would say is better than most Irish men but not good enough to make up for my height and more importantly my small frame.

EarlyStorms

completedit wrote: »

Nah gym does nothing, I'm like 10 per cent bodyfat, pretty strong, sprint regularly, zero attention from women. My face(depending on what time of day you catch it at, lighting etc.) I would say is better than most Irish men but not good enough to make up for my height and more importantly my small frame.

There is something else at play here, there is no way a fit reasonably good looking guy who is 5'8 cant get any female attention simply because he's 5'8. If you were abnormally short maybe it'd be more difficult. You're doing something wrong, are you awkward around the opposite sex? An interesting guy who is funny and good company and looks how you've physically described yourself should be doing ok.

antietam1

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Which girls are asking which guys why they like big boobs? It's not a universal fact btw, some guys want less than a handful.

This incredibly black-and-white way of talking about the sexes where there's no room for nuance or the discrepancies between an online profile and real-life is just boring and lacking serious depth tbh.

Your judgement of which men are really nice and really funny is irrelevant tbh. Are you willing to have sex with them yourself? Sexual attraction runs a lot deeper than "he's a great guy" as you well know, given the big boobs comparison.

My point is girls are saying one thing and doing another, the girls I am talking about would know these guys and had said how nice and funny they were.
But not go out with them because they were not tall enough.
Also the girls decided all men wanted big boobs not me.
Oh by the way I am talking about dating and seeing what happens not love or lust at first sight.
I don't have a type nor would I rule out going with someone who was good for a laugh