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Shooting at Bray Boxing Club, 1 killed, 2 seriously injured...

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    #32
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Deceased rumoured to be innocent and got caught in the crossfire. I have not idea how reliable that information is.

    Wouldn't surprise me, its looking like this may be some sort of personal grudge more so than organized crime related.


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    #33
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Ffs

    You do know, this may come as a surprise, that anyone can buy a white van?
    Sure. But we're talking about a gangland shooting, something which traveller gangs have been heavily involved in, in the past. And a white van might be nothing exceptional, but yellow-plated white vans are a frequent sight on halting sites. And a boxing club being the target...well travellers are heavily involved in boxing.

    Just putting two and two together. I may have gotten five, that's why I didn't say it was definitely a traveller gang.

    Dial down the histrionics there.


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    #34
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    To be fair, Pete Taylor being involved with MTK people doesn't necessarily mean he was involved with Daniel Kinahan. The boxing scene in Ireland is incredibly small with very few degrees of separation between individuals, so just because person A has a mutual friend with person B, doesn't necessarily mean that A and B are actually involved with eachother.

    TBH, Irish social live in general tends to be like this as well. I'd imagine for example that most people who live and grew up in Dublin probably have maybe only one or two degrees of separation between themselves and Conor McGregor - but similarly, only one or two degrees of separation between themselves and Bono.

    Say what you like about people willingly choosing to train in an environment allegedly funded by criminal assets, but in my view it's extremely unfair to make the blanket assumption that everyone who has a connection to MTK is involved with the Kinahan cartel. Paddy Barnes is supposed to be an incredibly nice lad and the media are always extremely careful to make the point that he's never even been alleged to be any sort of criminal, whenever they write about MTK and Daniel Kinahan.

    It's similar to all the uproar over Conor McGregor "associating with Kinahan thugs" - the people he's regularly lambasted for hanging around with, grew up together from childhood in the same relatively small community. Letting go of childhood friends is f*cking hard, and the fact that you remain friends with somebody doesn't necessarily mean that you're in any way involved in or approve of the lifestyle they have gotten involved in.

    If it does turn out that Pete Taylor was targeted because of his MTK connections, in my view it's an extraordinarily unfair and despicable attack - and I mean that even more so than the usual despicableness which accompanies this feud. To suggest that everyone who has ever been associated in any way with Gerry Hutch or Daniel Kinahan - or even who has ever been associated with associates of Gerry Hutch or Daniel Kinahan - is a legitimate target in any of this, or is automatically a dodgy person, is an absolutely vile outlook IMO.


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    #35
    RoryMac
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    tomofson wrote: »
    Wouldn't surprise me, its looking like this may be some sort of personal grudge more so than organized crime related.

    Really? What makes you think that?

    I would of thought Taylor's much publicised links to Kinahan boxers was a more obvious possible cause


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    #36
    ronn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ronn


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Deceased rumoured to be innocent and got caught in the crossfire. I have not idea how reliable that information is.

    That’s true, the chap was doing a workout before work, tragic


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    #37
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    RoryMac wrote: »
    Really? What makes you think that?

    I would of thought Taylor's much publicised links to Kinahan boxers was a more obvious possible cause

    There is a separate feud simmering in the bray area and it is more of a personal grudge thing than gang related.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RoryMac wrote: »
    Really? What makes you think that?

    I would of thought Taylor's much publicised links to Kinahan boxers was a more obvious possible cause

    Don’t pay any attention! The poster often makes ****e up.


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    #39
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Don’t pay any attention! The poster often makes ****e up.

    As does yourself and most posters on boards.ie

    I said what I THOUGHT, never said it was 100% fact.


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    #40
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Another innocent killed. If the last few weeks are anything to go by the country is fast reaching kip status.


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    #41
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Omackeral wrote: »
    They’ve represented this country at the Olympic Games also, that’s only to be commended.

    Who was the lad who in 1992 held the Irish flag at the opening ceremony in Barcelona ?

    I heard rumours they gave him the flag to keep his hands busy, so he wouldn't be robbing the other athletes.


    Mod-Banned


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    #42
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Another innocent killed. If the last few weeks are anything to go by the country is fast reaching kip status.

    What we have seen over the last few weeks some cities in america see over a weekend or even a day, luckily the murder rate in Ireland is quite low.


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    #43
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Another innocent killed. If the last few weeks are anything to go by the country is fast reaching kip status.

    Really OTT comment.

    Look at crime stats in other countries.

    Have you seen how many stabbing deaths there have been in London last year.

    Ireland is very low on crime despite what many people may think.


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    #44
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    tomofson wrote: »
    What we have seen over the last few weeks some cities in america see over a weekend or even a day, luckily the murder rate in Ireland is quite low.

    Sure, but on the other hand if society is in a state of change from good to bad, that's obviously a concern, no? The murder rate in Ireland is indeed low - and most of us would like it to stay that way, which is why any anomalous period of violence in society is concerning as a trend.


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    #45
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    tomofson wrote: »
    There is a separate feud simmering in the bray area and it is more of a personal grudge thing than gang related.

    Is that between gangland types, low level criminals, or just ordinary people who are willing to go to extreme lengths to settle personal scores?

    I ask only because I still feel that it's really not an easy task in Ireland to get hold of guns, probably a lot less so in recent years since decommissioning etc, so it seems highly unlikely to me that someone without organised crime links would be able to get their hands on one, or would bother going through the hassle involved. When I see the word "gun" or "shooting" in an article about criminality in Ireland, I always assume organised rather than low level criminals are likely to be involved.


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    #46
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Is that between gangland types, low level criminals, or just ordinary people who are willing to go to extreme lengths to settle personal scores?

    I ask only because I still feel that it's really not an easy task in Ireland to get hold of guns, probably a lot less so in recent years since decommissioning etc, so it seems highly unlikely to me that someone without organised crime links would be able to get their hands on one, or would bother going through the hassle involved. When I see the word "gun" or "shooting" in an article about criminality in Ireland, I always assume organised rather than low level criminals are likely to be involved.

    I would assume they have gangland connections, but I don't think its related to the most sensationalized gang feud we are constantly hearing about.


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    #47
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Sure, but on the other hand if society is in a state of change from good to bad, that's obviously a concern, no? The murder rate in Ireland is indeed low - and most of us would like it to stay that way, which is why any anomalous period of violence in society is concerning as a trend.

    You said it better than I could.


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    #48
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Why do people always say "it's not as bad as other countries"? What relevance has that? One senseless killing is a senseless killing too many, why do people try to justify it because we have a lower crime/murder rate than other countries.


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    #49
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Why do people always say "it's not as bad as other countries"? What relevance has that? One senseless killing is a senseless killing too many, why do people try to justify it because we have a lower crime/murder rate than other countries.

    That is the way you are reading it?

    I was pointing out to those hyperbole types that its not as bad as they think or are trying to make it out to be, thats all. Nobody justified it.


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    #50
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Why do people always say "it's not as bad as other countries"? What relevance has that? One senseless killing is a senseless killing too many, why do people try to justify it because we have a lower crime/murder rate than other countries.

    Because people say things like the country's turning into a kip etc


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    #51
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Because people say things like the country's turning into a kip etc

    'Turning into" we are not there yet but there is a noticable transition going on looking at the overall picture, not just crime.


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    #52
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    'Turning into" we are not there yet but there is a noticable transition going on looking at the overall picture, not just crime.

    No we're not. People are just dramatising.

    What "noticable tranistion" is happening?


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    #53
    GiftofGab
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭GiftofGab


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Why do people always say "it's not as bad as other countries"? What relevance has that? One senseless killing is a senseless killing too many, why do people try to justify it because we have a lower crime/murder rate than other countries.

    I remember reading one year that Dublin was the gun murder capital of Europe. More people were murdered by gun crime that any other city in Europe...and they weren't talking about per capita. Crazy for a small city.
    London has mostly knife crime.


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    #54
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    GiftofGab wrote: »
    I remember reading one year that Dublin was the gun murder capital of Europe. More people were murdered by gun crime that any other city in Europe...and they weren't talking about per capita. Crazy for a small city.
    London has mostly knife crime.

    So where the terrorist attacks in Paris that killed over 80 people not "gun crime"?
    Here's an article from the UK showing the unsafest cities in Europe. Belfast makes the list.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-17-most-unsafe-cities-in-europe-a6895511.html


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    #55
    P.Walnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 4,748 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    GiftofGab wrote: »
    I remember reading one year that Dublin was the gun murder capital of Europe. More people were murdered by gun crime that any other city in Europe...and they weren't talking about per capita. Crazy for a small city.
    London has mostly knife crime.

    Source?


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    #56
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    GiftofGab wrote: »
    I remember reading one year that Dublin was the gun murder capital of Europe. More people were murdered by gun crime that any other city in Europe...and they weren't talking about per capita. Crazy for a small city.
    London has mostly knife crime.

    There was a lot more gun murders in Dublin and indeed the whole of Ireland ten years ago than there is nowadays.

    The murders seem to be just more sensationalized now.


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Source?

    Arse.


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    #58
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    tomofson wrote: »
    That is the way you are reading it?

    I was pointing out to those hyperbole types that its not as bad as they think or are trying to make it out to be, thats all. Nobody justified it.


    Each recent thread. Ana/Jastine/Cameron has had people talking about how we have a low crime/murder rate. So yes, it can come across as people saying that the death of the innocent person doesn't matter as much because our murder rate is 'low'.


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    #59
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Each recent thread. Ana/Jastine/Cameron has had people talking about how we have a low crime/murder rate. So yes, it comes across as if the death of the innocent person doesn't matter because our murder rate is 'low'.

    And those comments where most likely in response to some sensationalist posters hyperbole.


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    #60
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    murpho999 wrote: »
    No we're not. People are just dramatising.

    What "noticable tranistion" is happening?

    Fine, if your happy with a shoddy legal system, poor health system, a brutal housing market, an under resourced and badly mismanaged police force and insurance cartels by all means it might be a utopia for you. It isn't for many.

    We should aspire to be world leaders and not accept mediocrity as you are. Not derailing further.


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    #61
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Sure, but on the other hand if society is in a state of change from good to bad, that's obviously a concern, no? The murder rate in Ireland is indeed low - and most of us would like it to stay that way, which is why any anomalous period of violence in society is concerning as a trend.

    It's only anomalous if you take it out of context. The murder rate per day here is less than one. So any day in which there is a murder is above average. To get a few murders in a few weeks doesn't indicate a worrying trend if the only sample you use is those weeks.

    The fact is that the occurrences of murders does not follow a regular distribution patterns. If we average one a week then we would have two some weeks and zero others. The arrival pattern for these events is irregular in the short term but in the long term shows a pattern. In fact it's to be expected that we will see short term increases and decreases.


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