Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

KK36

davidx40 wrote: »

Our current county board chairman is stone useless .... Coaching and development officer Tynan don't get me started ....were in trouble there's no doubt about that .....

Don't know Tynan that well but I see he is being contested for that position at Convention next Monday.

Village87

Our half back line and midfield were completely dominated the weekend. Very disappointed in Paddy Deegan he was bet in the air for both goals got the run around by Stephen Bennett and also Jack Fagan. Padraig Walsh was anonymous and Cillian Buckley was very poor in possession and when turned he is desperately slow. Conor Fogarty blown out of it again and very poor hurling skill levels for this level, similar with Browne.

We need good tidy hurlers in this area to compete with the Limericks/ Waterford style of play. We just don't have them at the minute.

JJs Left Hand

KK36 wrote: »

Don't know Tynan that well but I see he is being contested for that position at Convention next Monday.

Is there somewhere where this can be seen? Who's taking him on?

conor05

Village87 wrote: »

Our half back line and midfield were completely dominated the weekend. Very disappointed in Paddy Deegan he was bet in the air for both goals got the run around by Stephen Bennett and also Jack Fagan. Padraig Walsh was anonymous and Cillian Buckley was very poor in possession and when turned he is desperately slow. Conor Fogarty blown out of it again and very poor hurling skill levels for this level, similar with Browne.

We need good tidy hurlers in this area to compete with the Limericks/ Waterford style of play. We just don't have them at the minute.

Is Leinster underage falling behind Munster at the vital age group of 19-22 in player development?

Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin hurlers don't seem to be as slick skillwise as some of their munster counterparts!

Tipperarys and Limerick success is coming off the back of winning under 20 All Irelands in the last 10 years.

Obviously Kilkenny won 4 x All Irelands in 11, 12, 14 & 15 but we still had a very strong spine from the under 20 All ireland wins in 2004, 2006 and 2008.

KK36

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Is there somewhere where this can be seen? Who's taking him on?

Your club secretary would have it I'd say.
It's Kieran Muldowney from Conahy. If it's the same person I'm thinking of he worked with the GAA before.

davidx40

We need new blood badly on county board ...Tynan and Jimmy Walsh are complete waste if time .....Pat Henderson is still on it absolute kk legend but he had his day

minty81

Conceding 2-17 in second half and 2-16 of that from play tells its own story. Half back line and midfield cleaned out. Yet the answer to this was to take off our full forward line despite the lack of quality ball going in.
We have alot of nice defenders, but nice is the problem. We're really lacking a dominant force at the back and big worry is I don't see one coming either. The young talent i see coming through are mainly forward players (e.g. cian kenny and ciaran brennan).
Anyone suggestions on any new players to try at half back or midfield? Or is it more likely move around whats there already... e.g.Lawlor or Brassil as half backs?

kilkennyboy

Corcoran wing back for ballyhale. Bit like Callum Lyons probably only 19/20 but very quick

robwen

There's a rumour Eddie Brennan taking on the Ballyragget job

ttowncat

Youth development in the county is indeed shambolic. At primary level, the gaa coach is rarely seen and when he does turn up it's usually the handy option of throwing a gaelic football out. 1) he should have a van full of spare hurls, helmets and rubber hurls. 2) a phone call in advance and every kid will have their gear with them in advance.3) the county need to find investment for another one of those schools coaches.

I did a coaching one day course in kk with the development officers a few years ago. They had us doing the overhead pull drill and doubling on the ball. Very limited benefit apart from athletic coordination maybe, but this drill was put out there as 'hey look what expert tip we have that no one else is doing'.

Very little tactical nous or game plan coached from co minor management.

So many clubs can barely get enough meaningful trainings or matches because of development squads and county schedules. Clubs with 5 or 6 at training. I would really love to see development squads for all tried out. Amalgamate a couple of rural clubs and try have 30 on a pitch whilst the stars are gone to their traditional development squads.
Too many youngsters walk around with a hurl, but few are hurling in the 'killing fields' of parks and back gardens. Most only pick up a hurl when it's training/match time.
Add to that smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers and we're in for a massive famine.

Fred Daly

KK36 wrote: »

Your club secretary would have it I'd say.
It's Kieran Muldowney from Conahy. If it's the same person I'm thinking of he worked with the GAA before.

Does he work with M lyng motors.

Mankbag

ttowncat wrote: »

Youth development in the county is indeed shambolic. At primary level, the gaa coach is rarely seen and when he does turn up it's usually the handy option of throwing a gaelic football out. 1) he should have a van full of spare hurls, helmets and rubber hurls. 2) a phone call in advance and every kid will have their gear with them in advance.3) the county need to find investment for another one of those schools coaches.

I did a coaching one day course in kk with the development officers a few years ago. They had us doing the overhead pull drill and doubling on the ball. Very limited benefit apart from athletic coordination maybe, but this drill was put out there as 'hey look what expert tip we have that no one else is doing'.

Very little tactical nous or game plan coached from co minor management.

So many clubs can barely get enough meaningful trainings or matches because of development squads and county schedules. Clubs with 5 or 6 at training. I would really love to see development squads for all tried out. Amalgamate a couple of rural clubs and try have 30 on a pitch whilst the stars are gone to their traditional development squads.
Too many youngsters walk around with a hurl, but few are hurling in the 'killing fields' of parks and back gardens. Most only pick up a hurl when it's training/match time.
Add to that smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers and we're in for a massive famine.

They have "smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers" in other counties too, you realise?

Garyp88

It's a very strange scenario to be in really, all ireland final last year and leinster championship winners this year without playing well.

I have said it numerous times I think we need fresh ideas and a new approach the problem is how deep does it go is it just codys out of date tactics and philosophies are no longer good enough. Apart from TJ no body looks fit or has a burst of speed. The annoyance is in patches against Waterford and Dublin things were decent or was it in reality them 2 teams were that poor and made kilkenny look good.

Kilkenny has a very good standard of club hurling yet the last 4 years its not transitioned to County level surely that is a concern when players are performing well then get to the county and be poor Colin being the standout one. Alot going on about if TJ wasn't there kilkenny would be awful so would Galway without canning and Cork without horgan. Limerick, tipp and Waterford don't really have a marquee player they have a fantastic team bond who work for each other and if one has an off day someone steps up its like a well oiled machine.

Unfortunately the players panic and have no confidence, the physicality and conditioning is way off other counties, there is no pace anywhere and there is no plan b. The game has changed but kilkenny still stuck in the dark ages and haven't evolved to this new brand of hurling.

I would like to see fresh faces and ideas, maybe some players may benefit aswell. Some definite changes in position for some players and some gameplan and plan b. Yes other teams are alot better standard but these capitulations are worrying

The_Ghost

After rewatching the game just a few more thoughts. We had our good spell in the first half and didn’t make it count at all. After the second goal Murphy hit the ball out of play, so did Buckley and Walsh and billy Ryan and Richie hogan had brutal wides as well as paddy deegan hit and hope wide. All this kept them in it while their spell lasted longer they made it really count. Billy Ryan got the goal against dublin and done nothing else in his 2 games beside needlessly foul.

2-16 from play is disgraceful to concede in a half. For Bennett’s first goal (which in my opinion was the game changer) Walsh got booked for his attempt at playing the ball which didn’t effect bennett at all. Not to encourage it but he should have tactically fouled him, all he would have got was a yellow which he got anyway. This could have happened on numerous occasions but didn’t. I know just fouling lads isn’t the solution and just shows how utterly overrun we were but sometimes you’ve got to stop the attack. Our half back line didn’t catch or break one ball and we were out fetched throughout.

I spoke after the dublin game about movement in the forwards and again it didn’t seem noticeable on the tv anyway. You’d wonder what was said to Fennelly and alyward coming on cuz all they did was stand inside and only got 1 ball between them. Just compare the puck outs.

We do have quality hurlers but only TJ can continue to perform when the other team get on top most of the time at least.Delaney Donnolly and TJ all had very good years. Full back line in general too did well. Half back line done well in spells but couldn’t stop the dublin or Waterford onslaught and we do seem miles behind in terms of S&C. Cody and Keoghqn showed some very good signs and we won Leinster so it’s not all bad. Adrian was a big scoring loss and it must be remembered he has a very good on pitch relationship with Colin and TJ.

We’ll surely loose a few great servants. A huge commitment for some lads on the panel to be overlooked in terms of substitutions. Same everywhere I Spose.

awaywithyou

Just watched back sec half of game there now... KK half back line and midfield really poor... very very poor... I would say Cody needs to find 3 physically strong half backs.. Walsh and Buckley were just swatted aside by Waterford.. they were in no way commanding.. would Lawlor be an option at 6.. be very hard to see Waterford making so many clean catches against Limerick... think Richie Hogan should have been left on... KK still have good enuf forwards.... Reid Donnelly and to a lesser extent Hogan Walsh and Fennelly... while KK never gave up... they don’t play with the same intensity as 5-10 yrs ago.. where KK defenders years ago would smother forwards... defense the other nite don’t seem to have any positional sense or reading of th game etc.... got totally sucked in for 2nd goal... I mean ur full back line should not get caught under a puck out like that leaving space in behind... surprised really at KK defense usually a very strong area for them.. what has happened to Joey Holden? And there was a guy there a few yrs ago I think his name was Rob Lennon?

ttowncat

Mankbag wrote: »

They have "smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers" in other counties too, you realise?

Mind blown.
We don't have the same population to pick from as say cork, tipp, dublin, galway

Alonzo Moseley

ttowncat wrote: »

Youth development in the county is indeed shambolic. At primary level, the gaa coach is rarely seen and when he does turn up it's usually the handy option of throwing a gaelic football out. 1) he should have a van full of spare hurls, helmets and rubber hurls. 2) a phone call in advance and every kid will have their gear with them in advance.3) the county need to find investment for another one of those schools coaches.

I did a coaching one day course in kk with the development officers a few years ago. They had us doing the overhead pull drill and doubling on the ball. Very limited benefit apart from athletic coordination maybe, but this drill was put out there as 'hey look what expert tip we have that no one else is doing'.

Very little tactical nous or game plan coached from co minor management.

So many clubs can barely get enough meaningful trainings or matches because of development squads and county schedules. Clubs with 5 or 6 at training. I would really love to see development squads for all tried out. Amalgamate a couple of rural clubs and try have 30 on a pitch whilst the stars are gone to their traditional development squads.
Too many youngsters walk around with a hurl, but few are hurling in the 'killing fields' of parks and back gardens. Most only pick up a hurl when it's training/match time.
Add to that smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers and we're in for a massive famine.

I agree with some of that but excessively gloomy and one-sided.

We have more better hurlers in the 17-21 year age range than either of the two AI finalists
They are both drawing hugely from a 2012-2014 minor golden crop, and neither (especially Waterford) have done a lot since then

Whether those 17-21-year-olds will be good enough to help get us back on top or at least close to the top, we just don't know, but it's a good pool that we can be optimistic about replacing 3-4 players who clearly look as if they have reached end of IC careers.

I think maybe only Galway have as good and prob better players in that age range
I am far from blown away by Tipp's last two U21/U20 talent pool.
I saw Cadell and Brian Mc Grath and Mark Kehoe in Fitz action a few times this year and they didn't stick out.
As we are now seeing, Tipp's best talent of all in these teams may well have been on the sideline

It's a real pity no u20 this year, we had a good looking team (and new young management set up) and would have been very interesting to see how we would have gone.

I think we have the hurling talent but I agree with other posters that we need one or two speedsters that at present at least are not obviously available to us

kilkennyboy

awaywithyou wrote: »

Just watched back sec half of game there now... KK half back line and midfield really poor... very very poor... I would say Cody needs to find 3 physically strong half backs.. Walsh and Buckley were just swatted aside by Waterford.. they were in no way commanding.. would Lawlor be an option at 6.. be very hard to see Waterford making so many clean catches against Limerick... think Richie Hogan should have been left on... KK still have good enuf forwards.... Reid Donnelly and to a lesser extent Hogan Walsh and Fennelly... while KK never gave up... they don’t play with the same intensity as 5-10 yrs ago.. where KK defenders years ago would smother forwards... defense the other nite don’t seem to have any positional sense or reading of th game etc.... got totally sucked in for 2nd goal... I mean ur full back line should not get caught under a puck out like that leaving space in behind... surprised really at KK defense usually a very strong area for them.. what has happened to Joey Holden? And there was a guy there a few yrs ago I think his name was Rob Lennon?

Few days pass and dust settles and the real problems start to surface
You 100% right.basic defending was shocking we weren't opened up by
Some wonder plan .we were cleaned out in the air .where is someone like Jackie to come and meet runner's like Bennett at one stage he ran 70m to tap over a point from 21.how deegen and p walsh lasted the full game is baffling. 2.16 from play for Waterford and we are taking of corner forwards.
We will be back playing championship in April so should use the league to find mobile wingbacks maybe try p walsh centre forward

Alonzo Moseley

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Few days pass and dust settles and the real problems start to surface
You 100% right.basic defending was shocking we weren't opened up by
Some wonder plan .we were cleaned out in the air .where is someone like Jackie to come and meet runner's like Bennett at one stage he ran 70m to tap over a point from 21.how deegen and p walsh lasted the full game is baffling. 2.16 from play for Waterford and we are taking of corner forwards.
We will be back playing championship in April so should use the league to find mobile wingbacks maybe try p walsh centre forward

We conceded a combined total of a staggering 4 -33 in the two second halves versus Waterford and Dublin yet only one of the 10 substitutions made in those two halves was for a back and that was in the 70th min of the Dublin game.

It is astonishing that all 6 backs lasted the 70 mins last Saturday

But this has been a recurring feature all through Cody's reign especially in recent years (rem 2016 final when all 3 of full-back line were left on despite been torn asunder from almost the first minute, and only one back, Kieran Joyce, was replaced and that was after an hour and game lost)

Cody invariably targets forwards when momentum shifts against us.

Donnelly has a terrific paw and there is no one better than TJ, so when guys like that cannot get their hand on the ball, then maybe the problem is quality of delivery

Fred Daly

Was DJ Carey with the team saturday night on empty croke park none of the cameras picked up on him its a question a lot of people have been asking the last couple of days. As regards the backs we have a ready made full back in C Delany i think Hugh lawlor hurls better out the field as he has when he has been switched the last couple of games when he plays for his club. C Fogarty should have been gone after twenty minutes the other night he is just not up to it anymore you wonder what players like R Ried has to do to get there.

BloodyBill

ttowncat wrote: »

Mind blown.
We don't have the same population to pick from as say cork, tipp, dublin, galway

Limerick even though it has close on 200,000 people only has 1 serious hurling club in the whole city Na Piarsaigh. I poor enough senior club and then some smattering of intermediate and junior clubs. Ger Hegartys St Patricks are junior. Rugby obviously has multiples of that amount of clubs.So I do think pick is an issue but more importantly its the academy that has brought the players through. The only underage stuff worth winning is under 20...minors are too
Young in my opinion. Look at the amount of minors Galway have won and it does nothing only dull their edge as they get older .

Field east

ttowncat wrote: »

Mind blown.
We don't have the same population to pick from as say cork, tipp, dublin, galway

Yes but it does not play football at any age group at national level. There is a tug - of- war for some players Between hurling and football especially in Cork, Tipperary, Limerick and Clare. I assume that this would be of a significant advantage to Kilkenny

KK36

Fred Daly wrote: »

Does he work with M lyng motors.

Don't know what he does now to be honest. I saw him tutoring on a course years ago.

BloodyBill

Field east wrote: »

Yes but it does not play football at any age group at national level. There is a tug - of- war for some players Between hurling and football especially in Cork, Tipperary, Limerick and Clare. I assume that this would be of a significant advantage to Kilkenny

The tug is between Rugby and Hurling really in Limerick. Soccer had its own captive participants. Gaelic football is a distant 4th.

Alonzo Moseley

https://www.the42.ie/galway-dublin-u20-football-all-ireland-5285295-Dec2020/
This looks promising and unexpected
Had assumed it had been shelved

Edit:

This now looks like it is confirmed
Minor and U20 championships 2020 going ahead

https://twitter.com/JohnFogartyIrl/status/1333900293810089991

Fred Daly

ttowncat wrote: »

Youth development in the county is indeed shambolic. At primary level, the gaa coach is rarely seen and when he does turn up it's usually the handy option of throwing a gaelic football out. 1) he should have a van full of spare hurls, helmets and rubber hurls. 2) a phone call in advance and every kid will have their gear with them in advance.3) the county need to find investment for another one of those schools coaches.

I did a coaching one day course in kk with the development officers a few years ago. They had us doing the overhead pull drill and doubling on the ball. Very limited benefit apart from athletic coordination maybe, but this drill was put out there as 'hey look what expert tip we have that no one else is doing'.

Very little tactical nous or game plan coached from co minor management.

So many clubs can barely get enough meaningful trainings or matches because of development squads and county schedules. Clubs with 5 or 6 at training. I would really love to see development squads for all tried out. Amalgamate a couple of rural clubs and try have 30 on a pitch whilst the stars are gone to their traditional development squads.
Too many youngsters walk around with a hurl, but few are hurling in the 'killing fields' of parks and back gardens. Most only pick up a hurl when it's training/match time.
Add to that smaller families and less prevalence of sets of hurling brothers and we're in for a massive famine.

There is room for a fourth club in kilkenny the other three are so packed players are getting left behind.

ttowncat

Fred Daly wrote: »

There is room for a fourth club in kilkenny the other three are so packed players are getting left behind.

100% . Demoralising for underage country clubs and B team players in city clubs.

babyjesus14

Fred Daly wrote: »

There is room for a fourth club in kilkenny the other three are so packed players are getting left behind.

Absolutely, it's a major elephant in the room that needs dealing with. What will it be like in 10 years time when this Western Development is finished? The 'boro will be fielding 5 teams in ever underage grade!

kksaints

The problem with setting up a fourth club isn't with player numbers but more to do with is the people available to run the administrative side and is there space for another ground in the city. Also people have a strong loyalty to their clubs, would enough people be willing to change their loyalties to make a fourth club viable?

kilkennyboy

If they were allowed start as a adult club hurling maybe junior c or d
As a social club .like the half pace hurling over a few years you would see a migration and a juvenile club would organically appear.