Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

Fighting Tao

tigger123 wrote: »

Fianna Fail TD on Rte1 just a moment ago who said the Love Both is staffed by old veterans of the game who've been around for 40 odd years. They tried to pick off TDs one by one to turn them to support the No side.

She said the pressure was immense to back a No vote.

I don't get this. If a TD made up their mind to support Yes, then they should be telling the lobbyists where to go and ignoring all calls and emails from them.

It wasnt me123

martingriff wrote: »

Could allways do this since the referendums after the X case

My understanding was that they could get "paper" information ie, written details of hospitals etc, but that the gps couldn't help in any way and certainly couldn't help afterwards.

I think that will change in the interim - they are saying Autumn for the legislation so that is this year hopefully.

martingriff

Billy86 wrote: »

Also to point out, this is a lie. Venezuela was in the list you have been provided on multiple occasions as having comparable abortion laws to ours and is on the list I have posted!

Illegal abortion is killing horrifying numbers of women in Venezuela

I think in a lot of those countries there is a lot of problems that need sorting out like allowing grown men have sex with underage women but ya people would be surprised what country has abortions

BarleySweets

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think more women won’t have to travel to the UK for an abortion before the actual law changes? 🀔

That’s not what they said at all. Why are you putting words into their mouth?

This is what their post meant: No abortion will be legally provided in Ireland until new legislation passes because the Protection of Life Act 2013 still applies.

But, now that the 8th has been repealed, doctors will be allowed to provide information regarding abortions to their patients. Under the 2013 Act, doctors can’t literally provide “recommendations” or “support” or “aftercare” for abortions either, but they can provide information on all of the above now. This means that women are much better off already because while they can’t get the abortion here until new legislation passes, women will still need to travel but now that the 8th is gone, they’ll be able to do so with full information provided by their GP.

martingriff

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

My understanding was that they could get "paper" information ie, written details of hospitals etc, but that the gps couldn't help in any way and certainly couldn't help afterwards.

I think that will change in the interim - they are saying Autumn for the legislation so that is this year hopefully.

Sorry I thought you meant in a year my apologies I am also accounting some politicians looking for other stuff and court cases

Sheeps

Pherekydes wrote: »

How many are acceptable to you?

Zero deaths by pregnancy complications would be acceptable to me. Do you have a figure or do you answer every question with another question in an attempt to dodge answering?

BarleySweets

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I don't get this. If a TD made up their mind to support Yes, then they should be telling the lobbyists where to go and ignoring all calls and emails from them.

It can’t be that easy!

Imagine you’re a TD and getting dozens of calls from random lobbyists who, while not overtly threatening you, imply heavily that if you do not switch to publicly support the No-side, they’ll arrange rent-a-mobs to gate crash every future re-election event you ever attend so that every time you’re trying to address the media or your constituents, there’ll be a rowdy mob there roaring “BABY KILLER!”.

We all give TDs a lot of stick but dealing with that kind of **** can’t be easy.

Shurimgreat

Billy86 wrote: »

No, sorry, you're trying to muddy the waters again. Once more, this is the full and comprehensive list of countries that have abortion laws most in line with our own at present. Not a cherry picked few, this is the full and comprehensive list of all of them. You can cling to microstates Andorra and San Marino if it makes you feel better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.


It's not irrelevant, as it came about from this discussion and was in direct response to a 'No' poster claiming abortion is not 'civilised'. If it were irrelevant, you would not have jumped into the conversation as you did. The fact is the argument just doesn't work in your favour here.

First off if you think flushing an aborted foetus down a toilet is civilised well done you. Little different to the Tuam babies scandal in my view. Outrage over one, the other seen as a welcome "civilising" of this country.

Secondly you seemed to have picked selectively from the list.
Saudi Arabia has a limited form of abortion. Do you think this is a civilised country we should look up to?

On the contray you have undermined your own argument. Many countries with access to abortion are completely brutal regimes with appalling human rights record eg North Korea and China. You think they are civilised countries to look up to?

_Dara_

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Well said. I suspect some of the gloaters on here didnt actually bother their arse to vote. But a bandwagon is always a magnet for some.

I’d say most did vote, tbh.

namloc1980

Fianna Fail are the most irrelevant entity after today's result along with Iona.

erica74

I bet this is that poster from the last abortion referendum thread:pac:

woejus

Some great coverage of the Yes landslide on http://theliberal.ie/ now....hahaha

pl4ichjgy17zwd

woejus wrote:

Some great coverage of the Yes landslide on now....hahaha

An historic vote and they're talking about a budget airline route

Billy86

Shurimgreat wrote: »

First off if you think flushing an aborted foetus down a toilet is civilised well done you. Little different to the Tuam babies scandal in my view. Outrage over one, the other seen as a welcone "civilising" of this country.

There ya go, didn't take long for the mask to come off.

Secondly you seemed to have picked selectively from the list.
Saudi Arabia has a limited form of abortion. Do you think this is a civilised country we should look up to?

No, I picked from the listed as Ireland was - yes for the mothers life at risk, no to everything else. Saudi Arabia allows abortion when the mother's physical health (not just life) or mental health are at risk. Ireland does not. Try again.

On the contray you have undermined your own argument. Many countries with access to abortion are completely brutal regimes with appalling human rights record eg North Korea.

See, you keep trying that one but I keep reminding you that you will have to lump them in with North America, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, basically all of Europe and so on. You really are not doing yourself any favours here.

Here's your full and comprehensive list again, of countries with the most comparable abortion laws to us at present (thankfully we will be leaving this bracket in the coming months). I'll underline Venezuela this time, just so you don't miss it again. Like I said feel free to cling to Andorra or San Marino if you wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

According to the poster who this started in, these are the bastions of civilizaton the rest of the world should be looking towards. Do you agree?

Noveight

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

pl4ichjgy17zwd

Noveight wrote:

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Simon Harris said they hope to have legislation passed by autumn

ohnonotgmail

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Maybe. Its primarily elective surgery though. And even if it is valid, most people dont have a medical card.

No surgery required in the vast majority of cases when the woman is less than 12 weeks pregnant.

Billy86

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

This morning Harris said they want to have legislation drawn up for proposal for the Oireachtas by the end of the summer, if memory serves me correct.

TheValeyard

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Depends on legislation.

Probably have an idea on Tuesday after cabinet meeting. Plans might be set in motion then.

Sheeps

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

They already are taking place in Ireland.

It wasnt me123

BarleySweets wrote: »

That’s not what they said at all.


.......

Thank you BarleySweets, that's exactly what I meant but you put it much more succinctly than I could. I was working at the referendum yesterday so my brain is mush today.

I said all along it would be 70/30
Yesterday I had my doubts as the no voters were vocal in their no (not rude or anything just happy to talk about their vote) and I was worried.

I'm overjoyed today.

hatrickpatrick

mcmoustache wrote: »

I would thank this more than once if I could. Very well expressed. I'm nearly 40 and all of that post is right on the nose.

Can I ask, how much of this was known when you were a kid / teen? I was roughly 18 when it all finally erupted to the surface of the national consciousness. Before that, as I said, I'd honestly been raised with and happily bought into the idea that Ireland was one of the greatest countries in the world, both economically and politically / socially. If you're nearly 40 then you would have lived through the 1980s - I was born in '89, so I'm a 90s kid through and through. Can you remember in the 80s and early 90s, was this stuff ever talked about? Did young people know about it? Would you have been aware, prior to the Ryan and Murphy reports, that Ireland had this horrendous litany of abuse in its recent history, or was this truly buried and sealed, waiting for the noughties to be rediscovered? Do you remember, for instance, ever hearing about the last Magdalene laundries being closed in the mid-90s, or was this just something which didn't command any sort of national prominence as a news story?

What I'm basically trying to get to the bottom of is how this could have been simultaneously such a huge cultural thing in Ireland and yet also something which shocked so many people when the reports came out. Did my family and my school teachers choose to shield my generation from this awfulness and only tell us the good things about our country, or had it genuinely just slipped out of the national psyche and been honestly overlooked as something that was important to talk about and acknowledge?

And as a second question, do you remember anything around contraception or homosexuality, and any sort of cultural change in your lifetime prior to the rapid acceleration of liberalism in the 2000s?

Feel free not to answer if any of this is too personal, but I've just always been fascinated as to how such a horrible thing could be so easily forgotten about in an entire nation's recent history. On the other hand, reading some of the stories from the victims, it would appear that at least to some extent, society at large was genuinely unaware of the horrors that were going on behind closed doors.

BarleySweets

Noveight wrote: »

Because their reaction seems to be making a bit of a carnival of the whole thing, like it's a personal achievement of theirs that the Yes vote has gone through. Furthermore, it is disrespectful of those who who voted No and I don't believe that is called for. Gloating over the result or claiming a moral high-ground isn't beneficial to anyone, nor is it a good reflection on a person themselves.



Indeed I do, very well.



No idea why they'd react as they have chosen to, precisely the reason why I believe it's unwarranted.

Why don’t you just stop virtue signaling and keep your nose out of other people’s business?

Let these grown adults celebrate the referendum result however they want.

It wasnt me123

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Legislation to pass before the Autumn.

I hope you and yours, like me and mine never know when abortions are taking place in Ireland. Hopefully it will never affect us.

For the women making that choice, they can discuss it with their gps and anyone else they like to without you and I needing to know anything about it but being sure in the knowledge that whoever has to make that decision will be receiving good quality medical treatment, legally.

Pherekydes

Sheeps wrote: »

Zero deaths by pregnancy complications would be acceptable to me. Do you have a figure or do you answer every question with another question in an attempt to dodge answering?

1996	3
1997	3
1998	2
1999	1
2000	1
2001	3
2002	5
2003	-
2004	1
2005	1
2006	0
2007	2
2008	3
2009	3
2010	1
2011	2
2012	2
2013	3
2014	1

Sheeps

Pherekydes wrote: »

1996	3
1997	3
1998	2
1999	1
2000	1
2001	3
2002	5
2003	-
2004	1
2005	1
2006	0
2007	2
2008	3
2009	3
2010	1
2011	2
2012	2
2013	3
2014	1

Thanks.

Noveight

BarleySweets wrote: »

Why don’t you just stop virtue signaling and keep your nose out of other people’s business?

Let these grown adults celebrate the referendum result however they want.

I was replying to another poster and in no way trying to signal my virtues. Furthermore, anything uploaded to social media is indeed intended to be everyone's business. So you suggesting for me to "mind my own" is not only inaccurate, but also tinged with hypocrisy. Don't let that deduce from the thanks you'll get from mentioning virtue signalling though.

Shurimgreat

Billy86 wrote: »

There ya go, didn't take long for the mask to come off.

No, I picked from the listed as Ireland was - yes for the mothers life at risk, no to everything else. Saudi Arabia allows abortion when the mother's physical health (not just life) or mental health are at risk. Ireland does not. Try again.


See, you keep trying that one but I keep reminding you that you will have to lump them in with North America, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, basically all of Europe and so on. You really are not doing yourself any favours here.

Here's your full and comprehensive list again, of countries with the most comparable abortion laws to us at present (thankfully we will be leaving this bracket in the coming months). I'll underline Venezuela this time, just so you don't miss it again. Like I said feel free to cling to Andorra or San Marino if you wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

According to the poster who this started in, these are the bastions of civilizaton the rest of the world should be looking towards. Do you agree?

Ok your posts are embarrassing at this point. I don't exactly know what point you are trying to make. In fact I don't think you know either. It seems to be that easy availability of abortion is the mark of a civilised nation. For the record, Cuba, North Korea and China have legal abortion on request. India has a less liberal regime but abortion is widely available, something that played a part in the estimated 60 million femicides of unborn females in that country according to some studies. Iran and Saudi Arabia had abortion laws more liberal than ours. These are not countries we should aspire to be like and I feel embarrassed for you if you think we should look up to them in any way. I've proved to you that abortion is not the hallmark of a civilised country and in the case of India it has encouraged even more backwardness when it comes to attitudes to female unborn.

I didn't even mention such bastions of modern civilisation as Sudan, Ethiopia or Kenya and several more African countries.

You've lost the argument, accept it and then we can move on.

Noveight

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Legislation to pass before the Autumn.

I hope you and yours, like me and mine never know when abortions are taking place in Ireland. Hopefully it will never affect us.

For the women making that choice, they can discuss it with their gps and anyone else they like to without you and I needing to know anything about it but being sure in the knowledge that whoever has to make that decision will be receiving good quality medical treatment, legally.

Indeed, hear hear.

Nettle Soup

Embarrassing for Donegal. They wont even wait for them to finish counting.