Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

Grayson

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

and what would the likely outcome be if the IDF allowed these "protestors" cross that border?
please choose

• a peaceful sitdown
• rowdy scenes followed by destruction of property
• delivery of a strongly worded letter
• a reasoned and mature debate
• mass-murder

I never said that did it? I never said that they should let protesters through the boarder. Can you point out where I said that they should let people cross the border? What you did right there was make crap up.

Every single other civilized country can deal with protesters and even rioters without using assault rifles on them.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deusexmachina wrote: »

So, that’s not going to happen. Now what?

Hold Israel accountable to international law.
Impose sanctions until they do.
Boycott them.
Expel their ambassadors until they comply.
Ban them from cultural, academic and sporting activities until they comply.

It's not rocket science.

FTA69

Can any of the people whinging about the Palestinian leadership actually state what they should be doing? Because all I can see is outright condemnation of their refusal to simply sit back and accept being ethnically cleansed off their own land. Hamas are sh*t in a number of ways, but they aren't the problem here.

Long before Hamas were a power, Israel was seizing and settling land and declared that the entirety of the Holy Land was theirs and that the native inhabitants were simply trespassers.

Deusexmachina

Odhinn wrote: »

Support BDS.

And what will that achieve?

This is like the same old nonsense that extended the troubles for 30 years. Zero sum thinking. No thought for the other side, no compromise.
The SinnFein illusion that Unionists would eventually accept and welcome a United Ireland.
2000 deaths and 30 years and guess what? Peace talks and compromise.
It’s the only thing that works

Wheres Me Jumper?

Zebra3 wrote: »

An opportunity for the victims of ethnic cleansing to reclaim their homes?

Surely you wouldn’t deny the victims of crime the right to get their stolen property back, would you?

Or are you a racist who thinks the Palestinians don’t deserve justice?

i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
do you honestly think they ever stood a snowballs chance of reclaiming their "stolen property" back ??? :eek:

i hear they're selling left-handed burgers now ...

Subcomandante Marcos

Deusexmachina wrote: »

And what will that achieve?

Worked when we did it to South Africa.

Happy Monday

Seth Yellow Cobra wrote: »

After today's massacre, over 55 dead so far. Absolutely no regard for Palestinians basic human rights. What is the end game? Tomorrow marks the 70th anniversary of the Nakba and things are only getting worse. Events in the occupied territories are worse than anything endured in apartheid south Africa. They need support from the ground up from all people as the political will is not there.

No - they want Palestinians to respect their borders.
The terrorist Hamas leadership are committed to wiping Israel off the map.
But that ain't going to be happening you can be sure.

Odhinn

Deusexmachina wrote: »

And what will that achieve?

...forces Israel to the table, and imposes consequences for its actions.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
do you honestly think they ever stood a snowballs chance of reclaiming their "stolen property" back ??? :eek:

i hear they're selling left-handed burgers now ...

The same would have been said about Ireland in the 1800s, yet here we are.

Deusexmachina

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Hold Israel accountable to international law.
Impose sanctions until they do.
Boycott them.
Expel their ambassadors until they comply.
Ban them from cultural, academic and sporting activities until they comply.

It's not rocket science.

That’s fair - if your intention is to get them to the negotiation table. But then there needs to be realism and compromise.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Peace talks and compromise.
It’s the only thing that works

When have Israel ever been willing to compromise? It's been outlined several times in this thread how they have never in good faith made an offer of a free Palestinian state, not once. And when they came closest in Taba they withdrew the day the agreed upon deal was about to be signed, a deal which was made possible because the Palestinian side made massive concessions to what they were entitled to under international law.

Deusexmachina

Odhinn wrote: »

...forces Israel to the table, and imposes consequences for its actions.

As long as that’s the strategy, fine, I agree.

tayto lover

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Prejudiced mindsets always find reasons why one side or one group, should be blamed over the other... And they can be totally convinced of their beliefs!

That's how these things work. How do you think the Nazis could convince an entire nation, that one group of people were to blame for everything bad that happened to them...??

Really, this should be obvious to people... especially with a conflict that is dominated by religion!

Anyone who thinks this is a one-sided conflict... is either deeply prejudiced, or just not particularly bright!

Maybe you could list the gains made by the Palestinians since 1948 and enlighten us all?

Subcomandante Marcos

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you could list the gains made by the Palestinians since 1948 and enlighten us all?

Or, specifically, gains that Israel didn't object to or the US didn't try to veto.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Deleted User wrote: »

The same would have been said about Ireland in the 1800s, yet here we are.

try going up to East Belfast and asking for your property back
tell them Paddy Pearse & The Fenians sent ya

FTA69

Deusexmachina wrote: »

And what will that achieve?

This is like the same old nonsense that extended the troubles for 30 years. Zero sum thinking. No thought for the other side, no compromise.
The SinnFein illusion that Unionists would eventually accept and welcome a United Ireland.
2000 deaths and 30 years and guess what? Peace talks and compromise.
It’s the only thing that works

The Israeli prime minister has stated "there will never be a Palestinian state" and is presiding over settlements and land grabs. What 'compromise' do you think the Palestinians are refusing to make here? They're beaten and utterly defeated.

The reason there is no peace process is because Israel holds all the cards and do whatever they like, so tell us, what do you think the Palestinians should do and what do you think should be done to bring Israel to the negotiating table?

Wheres Me Jumper?

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

try going up to East Belfast and asking for your property back
tell them Paddy Pearse & The Fenians sent ya

Aye, and then I'd deserve to get shot in the face according to many here.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

Aye, and then I'd deserve to get shot in the face according to many here.

Sure you'd be agitating them and provoking a reaction. They'd blame your family for teaching you about your history.

Grayson

FTA69 wrote: »

The Israeli prime minister has stated "there will never be a Palestinian state" and is presiding over settlements and land grabs. What 'compromise' do you think the Palestinians are refusing to make here? They're beaten and utterly defeated.

The reason there is no peace process is because Israel holds all the cards and do whatever they like, so tell us, what do you think the Palestinians should do and what do you think should be done to bring Israel to the negotiating table?

Plus over the last 50 years the Palestinians have agreed to numerous agreements. Each of which was broken by the Israelis.

The whole conflict is complex and multi layered. However this map, as simple as it it, shows that the palestinians have reasons to be angry and distrustful.

Richard308

explain how completely different? Unarmed protesters trying to gain access to an area they’re not permitted to enter? Or do you mean that we live in a civilised country where we don’t shoot unarmed protestors and Israel isn’t civilised

ThinkProgress

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The attempt by Israel, it's enablers and apologists to redefine the word antisemitism to describe criticism of the actions and policies of the state of Israel or opposition to it's illegal occupation, war crimes, human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing in Palestine is one of the most transparent, disgusting, despicable propaganda tools of the last few decades.

Or perhaps you're just anti-semitic... and you don't want anyone to be able to call you on it. So you attempt to take the issue of anti-semitism completely off the table! (if people allow you to, that is)

nullzero wrote: »

You're veering way off topic now.
What are your feelings towards Palestinians? Do they have the same rights as any other human beings?

Are you referring to the "peaceful protestors" ??

Palestinians do not want peace with Israel... so when people refer to Palestinians as "peaceful protestors" - this is more than a bit of a misnomer...

Maybe the Palestinian leadership should display a bit more concern for their own people. Instead of using them as cannon-fodder, for propaganda purposes, so people such as yourself can be fooled into thinking one side of this conflict is the "bad guy"...

It's amazing how many people can be fooled by such rudimentary techniques.

Hector Savage

Israel don't want to wipe out the Palestinians - but the Palestinians (at least Hamas) want to wipe out the Israelis that's for sure .

And there is no one happier about all of this then Hamas - they love misery and blodshed to further their agenda.

Subcomandante Marcos

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Or perhaps you're just anti-semitic... and you don't want anyone to be able to call you on it. So you attempt to take the issue of anti-semitism completely off the table! (if people allow you to, that is)



Are you referring to the "peaceful protestors" ??

Palestinians do not want peace with Israel... so when people refer to Palestinians as "peaceful protestors" - this is more than a bit of a misnomer...

Maybe the Palestinian leadership should display a bit more concern for their own people. Instead of using them as cannon-fodder, for propaganda purposes, so people such as yourself can be fooled into thinking one side of this conflict is the "bad guy"...

It's amazing how many people can be fooled by such rudimentary techniques.

The mask hasn't just slipped here, you willfully threw it away. Ridiculous.

jobbridge4life

Hector Savage wrote: »

Israel don't want to wipe out the Palestinians

Funny then that they seem to making such a good job it.

Hector Savage wrote: »

And there is no one happier about all of this then Hamas - they love misery and blodshed to further their agenda.

I'd say smirking Netetanyahu is pretty pleased TBH.

tayto lover

Hector Savage wrote: »

Israel don't want to wipe out the Palestinians - but the Palestinians (at least Hamas) want to wipe out the Israelis that's for sure .

And there is no one happier about all of this then Hamas - they love misery and blodshed to further their agenda.

More of this rubbish.
The Israelis did some job of wiping out 58 of them against their will. They must have no willpower at all if they don't want to wipe them out.

ThinkProgress 5 weeks ago

ThinkProgess, you're back. And you've answered a post written sixteen minutes after mine.

You must have forgotten to answer it. Easy mistake so I'll ask again.

----

ThinkProgress 5 weeks ago wrote: »

Israel is very heavy-handed... and I think they are correct to act in this manner! (not that I am saying I agree with every particular incident or decision)

Right. Put your money where your mouth is ThinkProgess.

Do you agree with them shooting 58 protestors?

hatrickpatrick

It's systematic ethnic cleansing. Not so much "wipe out", but I reckon they're just hoping that if they make life as miserable as possible, enough Palestinians will either die or f*ck off that they can forcefully occupy the small territories which they didn't manage to take by force in the 1960s.

Irish Praetorian

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's systematic ethnic cleansing. Not so much "wipe out", but I reckon they're just hoping that if they make life as miserable as possible, enough Palestinians will either die or f*ck off that they can forcefully occupy the small territories which they didn't manage to take by force in the 1960s.

Er which territories would those be?

Warper

Israeli soldiers/murderers had a great day yesterday for themselves, we all know how they laugh when they shoot these extremely dangerous people throwing stones and the like at the most fortified wall in the world. How threatened these poor soldiers must feel behind their towers with their big guns randomly shooting these so called terrorists. God those soldiers are so brave.

Israel can do what they want especially now as they have the greatest lunatic of a US president ever seen who is clearly loving it. Any UN investigation is immediately vetoed by the US. The world watches on as the Palestinian people are suffering the same fate as the Jews did in WW2. The Jews learned a lot from the Nazis, mostly hate and genocide.

Deusexmachina

FTA69 wrote: »

The Israeli prime minister has stated "there will never be a Palestinian state" and is presiding over settlements and land grabs. What 'compromise' do you think the Palestinians are refusing to make here? They're beaten and utterly defeated.

The reason there is no peace process is because Israel holds all the cards and do whatever they like, so tell us, what do you think the Palestinians should do and what do you think should be done to bring Israel to the negotiating table?

I agree with posters above who are suggesting concerted sanctions and international condemnation. Probably won’t work as long as US has this weird and blinkered relationship with Israel.
Two state solution is the only hope. There are moderates in Israel. They used to hold power. They may again but only when the Israelis feel less threatened.
Hamas is probably undermining its own cause.