Holocaust Denial [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Was this report not handed to Heinrich Himmler in January 1943? What your source for this info?

He himself 1977 in a letter to the German Magazin "Der Spiegel"

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

He himself 1977 in a letter to the German Magazin "Der Spiegel"

Wrong Kohler wrote a letter to German news magazine, Der Spiegel complaining that people should stop using this report as evidence of "special treatment" against the Jews. The report is just a statistical report of how Jews were processed from Nazi-occupied Europe and other countries to the East.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Wrong Kohler wrote a letter to German news magazine, Der Spiegel complaining that people should stop using this report as evidence of "special treatment" against the Jews. The report is just a statistical report of how Jews were processed from Nazi-occupied Europe and other countries to the East.

http://fpp.co.uk/History/General/Korherr/Spiegel250777.html

There is the letter signed by him. And

Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen.

Here he states he got the letter only and forwarded it, it was created by the RSHA not by him, he was not allowed to change anything.

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

http://fpp.co.uk/History/General/Korherr/Spiegel250777.html

There is the letter signed by him. And

Here he states he got the letter only and forwarded it, it was created by the RSHA not by him, he was not allowed to change anything.

Yes, but he said the RSHA told him it means settled to the East. Of course, the RHSA could be lying to him, but what he heard back was it meant settled to the east. There nothing in the letter him denying he wrote the Korherr report.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, but he said the RSHA told him it means settled to the East. Of course, the RHSA could be lying to him, but what he heard back was it meant settled to the east. There nothing in the letter him denying he wrote the Korherr report.

Look I am a native speaker and he clearly denies having written this report .

Cheerful Spring

beaufoy wrote: »

Do you punish the jews/nazi assholes who question the Holocaust


Sorry I cannot continue with these posts, I might have to visit germany next year on business, and they could put me in prison for writing the truth

I got to agree with the other people here. How can you be identified if you not using your real name? This topic is about Jewish people who have died in the Nazi concentration camps.

The Holocaust was a real event. About 2 million even as far up as 3 million Jewish people likely got killed and died from the year 1939 to 1945. That Jews were held against their will and moved to concentration camps, were stripped of everything they had in life this cannot be denied.

I have thought about the event and this event intrigues me. First, off all Jews were murdered and hanged and were cruelly mistreated by Prison guards and officers. I never deny this ever. This is a holocaust and genocide against the Jewish people.

I think it likely Jews were gassed to death. I have questions though! From what I can find only the Polish authorities after the war investigated the gas chambers and they claimed they found them. There never been an investigation outside of this done after the war as far as I can tell? Does not mean the polish authorities fabricated evidence, the research into it not broad-based as I would like personally. No other countries scientists were sent in to investigate this crime and take samples and collect data. Gas chambers were used to kill Jews, the evidence, predominately based on eyewitnesses accounts after the war. Again this is an emotional topic for some people and Mod wants us to stick to the numbers and avoid the gas chambers part. I just tell people what my opinion on it is.

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

Look I am a native speaker and he clearly denies having written this report .

He isn't denying he wrote it, why do people lie? This evidence has been used by Holocaust researchers for years even to this day. For you to come along to say this report is fake doesn't hold up to scrutiny or accepted facts.

Dohnjoe even used this as evidence recently to support his opinion!

Cheerful Spring

Harika Why I think you're confused.

Holocaust researchers claim 1.4 million Jews were sent to the East for "special treatment" ( to the gas chamber camps in the East) Himmler send a letter to leave out the wording special treatment. This been a subject of debate for 60 years was Himmler covering up mass murder?

Kohler report is legitimate. The Kohler letter if it's authentic claims he found out from RHCA special treatment referred to the Jews sent to the Lubian District in Poland. Kohler is not denying the statistics are accurate he denying his statistics are calculating 1.4 million Jews got send to the East for Special treatment ( murdered!)

Cheerful Spring

The Kohler letter is used by Holocaust revisionists to claim no Jews were gassed and murdered. This letter sent to the German Newspaper could be fake, not authentic. I see only parts of this letter talked about on revisionist sites, that's problem in itself.

What we know for sure is the Der Korherr-Bericht report talks about 1.4 million Jews processed to camps in the East, from 1939 to 1943. Where they murdered? Yes mostly likely if camps in the east had Gas chambers.

The Der Korherr-Bericht doesn't support 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. That number is highly inflated my estimate the number is close to 3 maybe 4 million at the most but that number feels too high.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Kohler letter is used by Holocaust revisionists to claim no Jews were gassed and murdered. This letter sent to the German Newspaper could be fake, not authentic. I see only parts of this letter talked about on revisionist sites, that's problem in itself.

What we know for sure is the Der Korherr-Bericht report talks about 1.4 million Jews processed to camps in the East, from 1939 to 1943. Where they murdered? Yes mostly likely if camps in the east had Gas chambers.

The Der Korherr-Bericht doesn't support 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. That number is highly inflated my estimate the number is close to 3 maybe 4 million at the most but that number feels too high.

Ah sure hardly a holocaust at all sure you would see worse at a Dublin v Meath match on a summer Sunday:rolleyes:

Chrongen

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah sure hardly a holocaust at all sure you would see worse at a Dublin v Meath match on a summer Sunday:rolleyes:

It's a debate that should have been in a pub 50 years ago.

Since the Holocaust, 2 million Vietnamese civilians were bombed and burnt to death,
1.5 milliion Iraqi people were butchered.

So we should probably put behind us the 6 million and start thinking about more recent genocides and holocausts.

Chrongen

Question IS

Are you allowed to question anymore?

King Mob

Chrongen wrote: »

Question IS

Are you allowed to question anymore?

Yes you are, as long as you are using actual historical references and evidence in the correct way.

For example:

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Different historians have different figures

e.g.
Lestschinsky - 5.9 mm
Bauer/Rozett - 5.8 mm
Gilbert - 5.75

Depends on their research, methods, new information, etc

These historians are questioning the holocaust and have lower figures.
Why are they not in jail?

And how about Franciszek Piper, who you yourself held up as an expert. He was the one who rejected the grossly inaccurate figure of 4 million deaths at Auschwitz and even the closer, generally accepted at the time, 2 million.
He put the figure at 1.1 million. Yet not only is he not in jail, he's the chair of the Historical Department at the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum.
How do you explain that?

What you guys are doing is not "questioning" it's denial.
None of you guys have actually done real research. You've just been reading racist propaganda on the internet, if not just watching racist youtube videos.
The racists and neo-nazis you are swallowing **** from are not doing research either. They look for anything they can twist and distort and just outright lie.

So again, boo hoo if they get punished for spreading propaganda.

Ipso

Chrongen wrote: »

It's a debate that should have been in a pub 50 years ago.

Since the Holocaust, 2 million Vietnamese civilians were bombed and burnt to death,
1.5 milliion Iraqi people were butchered.

So we should probably put behind us the 6 million and start thinking about more recent genocides and holocausts.

Are you sure of those numbers?

The Bishop Basher

Chrongen wrote: »

So we should probably put behind us the 6 million and start thinking about more recent genocides and holocausts.

Like this one for example..

https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/charts/

dr.fuzzenstein

Chrongen wrote: »

It's a debate that should have been in a pub 50 years ago.

Since the Holocaust, 2 million Vietnamese civilians were bombed and burnt to death,
1.5 milliion Iraqi people were butchered.

So we should probably put behind us the 6 million and start thinking about more recent genocides and holocausts.

I think we should ask ourselves why humanity is so inherently sh*tty and violent.
We should ask ourselves why we do it. And why so called good, honest people carry out mass murder and go back home to their family as f it's the most normal thing in the world.
Why do people say "I was only following orders"?
We should learn from this and see how it can be prevented.
Not fcuking nitpick over exact numbers, deny or engage in whataboutery.
I for one am not hopeful of the future when millions of people get slaughtered and now people say "but that was so long ago, can't we just forget about it?"
I don't know why we bother. Honestly I'm for a planet destroying asteroid, reset and start again.
Humanity has been an abysmal failure.
Sh*tty, violent, primitive and an unpredictable child race.

Dohnjoe

Unfortunately some people just see horrific events as opportunities to selectively bash countries/groups/races that they hate

They seek to rewrite history and twist facts in order to fit their world views

The moment Eisenhower saw the camps - he knew that people would try to deny it, which is why he ordered that everything be documented.

dr.fuzzenstein

I honestly don't know what is going on with humanity these days.
I blame the internet.

wexie

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I honestly don't know what is going on with humanity these days.
I blame the internet.

I'm not sure yet, it's hard to tell if the internet is creating more vitriol filled morons or if it's just giving them more of a voice.

Either way it's not particularly encouraging to see

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Unfortunately some people just see horrific events as opportunities to selectively bash countries/groups/races that they hate

They seek to rewrite history and twist facts in order to fit their world views

The moment Eisenhower saw the camps - he knew that people would try to deny it, which is why he ordered that everything be documented.

This is rewriting history by the allies. Camp Ohrdruf suffered a typhus epidemic at the end of the war. The Reich was in ruins and guards had run off leaving the camp to escape and left the prisoners to look after themselves. Transport of food to the camp stopped coming for months. This is what actually happened least be accurate when reporting about this event.

martingriff

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is rewriting history by the allies. Camp Ohrdruf suffered a typhus epidemic at the end of the war. The Reich was in ruins and guards had run off leaving the camp to escape and left the prisoners to look after themselves. Transport of food to the camp stopped coming for months. This is what actually happened least be accurate when reporting about this event.

Are you actually trying to say just because people died from diseases and malnutrition that Nazi's should not be held responsible or those figures be part of the Holocaust.

indioblack

martingriff wrote: »

Are you actually trying to say just because people died from diseases and malnutrition that Nazi's should not be held responsible or those figures be part of the Holocaust.

I wouldn't be surprised. If this camp the poster writes about is anything like others abandoned by the Nazis, the inmates would be in no condition to fend for themselves - and their physical state would be a result of their incarceration at the hands of those who ran away.

Cheerful Spring

martingriff wrote: »

Are you actually trying to say just because people died from diseases and malnutrition that Nazi's should not be held responsible or those figures be part of the Holocaust.

I bet posters on here believed all these victims were murdered by the Nazis? Be honest I bet none of you knew what caused these deaths? Nazis, of course, are responsible for the deaths at Ohrdruf it was a concentration camp and Jews and other nationalities were placed there.

I still think we should report history factually. The reason why they were found like this is hidden away and not talked about.

Cheerful Spring

indioblack wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised. If this camp the poster writes about is anything like others abandoned by the Nazis, the inmates would be in no condition to fend for themselves - and their physical state would be a result of their incarceration at the hands of those who ran away.

It's the camp Eisenhower visited and found all the dead bodies.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Yes you are, as long as you are using actual historical references and evidence in the correct way.

You full of it. You just want to believe what you want. We even have Harika claiming on here Korherr did not write the Korherr Report. Totally ignoring this report is used by Holocaust historians still to this day.

Korherr is denying in his letter to Das Spiegel "special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung) meant the extermination of the Jews in the East, that's it. Still did not stop you guys thanking him for believing his right when he not.

Korherr claims he heard from the Reich Main Security Office that it meant Jews located to Lubian district in Poland. Of course, he could be lying and he did know 1.4 million Jews were sent to the East to be liquidated? But nowhere in his letter is he denying the statistics are fake.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I bet posters on here believed all these victims were murdered by the Nazis? Be honest I bet none of you knew what caused these deaths? Nazis, of course, are responsible for the deaths at Ohrdruf it was a concentration camp and Jews and other nationalities were placed there.

I still think we should report history factually. The reason why they were found like this is hidden away and not talked about.

Imagine If I were to kidnap you tomorrow, take you someplace secluded and work you 18 hours a day, beat you, hardly feed you, let you suffer from sever malnutrition unto the point where you look like a skeleton.

After several years of this treatment you die from malnutrition/organ faliure/disease, whatever. Do you think I should be charged with your murder?

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Imagine If I were to kidnap you tomorrow, take you someplace secluded and work you 18 hours a day, beat you, hardly feed you, let you suffer from sever malnutrition unto the point where you look like a skeleton.

After several years of this treatment you die from malnutrition/organ faliure/disease, whatever. Do you think I should be charged with your murder?

Read my post 187 I addressed this question already.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Read my post 187 I addressed this question already.

Should I be charged withnyiu murder? Yes or no? I'm on mobile so posts are not numbered for me.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Should I be charged withnyiu murder? Yes or no? I'm on mobile so posts are not numbered for me.

I have already said the Holocaust was a real event. Of course, the Nazis are responsible for the deaths they placed the Jews in these camps against their will. How they died, how many died are legitimate questions we can ask?

indioblack

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I bet posters on here believed all these victims were murdered by the Nazis? Be honest I bet none of you knew what caused these deaths? Nazis, of course, are responsible for the deaths at Ohrdruf it was a concentration camp and Jews and other nationalities were placed there.

I still think we should report history factually. The reason why they were found like this is hidden away and not talked about.

You seem to have the ability to baffle people.
Most people could make a pretty good guess at what caused the deaths of these people you refer to. The Nazis.
As has been said before, how much of a difference does the manner of their deaths matter - those responsible for their deaths are the Nazis.
Unless there is more to this specific example, then I don't see the point of the post.
This is about historical accuracy, how many were killed and in what manner?
The Israelis and the British have been dragged into this thread for no useful purpose.
If you genuinely believe you have unarguable proof that the numbers don't add up, wouldn't your claimed beliefs oblige you to take this evidence to those who could use it - and re-write all the history books.