Holocaust Denial [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Cheerful Spring

Banterbus28 wrote: »

When was this once a day rule enacted? During the pending assault from three Soviet Shock Armies? By that point the focus was on destroying evidence...

Auschwitz gas chambers only started operations in early or late 1942 according to Holocaust researchers.

Banterbus28

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

When was this once a day rule enacted? During the pending assault from three Soviet Shock Armies? By that point the focus was on destroying evidence...

Auschwitz gas chambers only started operations in early or late 1942 according to Holocaust researchers.

And the Soviet Union was on Polands door late 1944...

I asked when the 1 chamber a day gassing rule was enacted.....

Again your lack of knowledge is insane.

Banterbus28

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

When was this once a day rule enacted? During the pending assault from three Soviet Shock Armies? By that point the focus was on destroying evidence...

Auschwitz gas chambers only started operations in early or late 1942 according to Holocaust researchers.

And the Soviet Union was on Polands door late 1944...

I asked when the 1 chamber a day gassing rule was enacted.....

Again your lack of knowledge is insane.

A lot of people can die in 2 years of genocide

wexie

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, I agree with you the conditions in the gas chambers could have resulted in no Prussia blue penetrating the brick walls and leaving a blue residue on the outside wall of the gas chambers? The problem is though these conditions never got tested scientifically, no hard data peer reviewed by the scientific community worldwide exists to confirm this claim..

The reason it was never done is because there was never a need for it, people didn't question the gas chambers because there is a huge amount of evidence for them having been there, and eye witness testimony.

Here is testimony from the Nuremberg trials :

http://www.yadvashem.org/docs/evidence-from-nuremberg-trials-on-auschwitz.html

direct....eyewitness....testimony (I'm sure there's plenty more where that came from if you bothered looking).

So what is it you are saying? This lady was lying? Every single person that states they have SEEN these gas chambers are lying?

Because you haven't seen scientific evidence...:rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If this was done, the notion no gas chambers existed would disappear and revisionists would not have a leg to stand on..

You already don't have a leg to stand on.

Cheerful Spring

Banterbus28 wrote: »

A lot of people can die in 2 years of genocide

This is the problem with the narrative 6 million Jews died. The gas chambers closed towards the end of 1943 Bełżec, Sobibor and Treblinka all ended operation. Only Auschwitz was in operation and they are too they claim most of the gas chambers ceased operations towards the end of 1943

Banterbus28

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

A lot of people can die in 2 years of genocide

This is the problem with the narrative 6 million Jews died. The gas chambers closed towards the end of 1943 Bełżec, Sobibor and Treblinka all ended operation. Only Auschwitz was in operation and they are too they claim most of the gas chambers ceased operations towards the end of 1943

Auschwitz-Birkenau
Majdanek
Chelmno

Were three other extermination camps.

Then you have the concentration camps in Germany itself thatbwere liquadated as the Allies drew nearer.

Dachau
Bergen-Belson
Buchenwald
Mauthasen
Ravensbrück
Theresianstadt

Then there's the dozens of satellite camps and laboir camps that served factories...

Overheal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is the problem with the narrative 6 million Jews died. The gas chambers closed towards the end of 1943 Bełżec, Sobibor and Treblinka all ended operation. Only Auschwitz was in operation and they are too they claim most of the gas chambers ceased operations towards the end of 1943

Sources say the chamber at Auschwitz fit about 700~800 at a time

Other sources I read today said for good measure they’d soak them in there for up to 30 minutes, 10 if it was busy.

Let’s assume it takes the crews some time to clean up the bodies and the excrement, I’ll give them an hour.

Let’s assume round the clock operation, because we want to know if it’s even possible they gassed a lot of Jews in 2 years right.

For 365 days of operation,
For 700 Jews every 2 hours (being even more conservative)
That’s 3,066,000 Jews in one year.

Maths out to me.

wexie

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is the problem with the narrative 6 million Jews died. The gas chambers closed towards the end of 1943 Bełżec, Sobibor and Treblinka all ended operation. Only Auschwitz was in operation and they are too they claim most of the gas chambers ceased operations towards the end of 1943

Ah come on now....you're not actually arguing that they were only dead (or you only count them) if they were killed in the gas chambers?
(and if you aren't that what is you're actual point?)

Einsatzgruppen mean anything to you?

(they're considered to be responsible for 1 million dead alone. (obviously that's an 'ish' number))

Cheerful Spring

wexie wrote: »

Ah come on now....you're not actually arguing that they were only dead (or you only count them) if they were killed in the gas chambers?

Einsatzgruppen mean anything to you?

(they're considered to be responsible for 1 million dead alone. (obviously that's an 'ish' number))

Korheer report has 1.8 million Jews eventually ending up in camps in the East by the start of 1943.

The gas chambers only started kicking into operation around 1942 and 1943 only running for a year or two at most.

If gas chambers were running once a day 24 hour period the Korheer numbers are probably right?

wexie

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Korheer report has 1.8 million Jews eventually ending up in camps in the East by the end of 1943.

once again...for the cheap seats and the hard of hearing :

they didn't 'just' die in the camps

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The gas chambers who started kicking into operation around 1942 and 1943 only running for a year or two at most.

If gas chambers were running once a day 24 hour period the Korheer numbers are probably spot on?

You yourself pointed out a page or two ago that can't have been the case

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

One officer at Auschwitz (he name escapes me now) claimed they only carried out 1 gassing a day in 24 hour period. Holocaust researcher even admitted on camera this not possible considering how many Jews are claimed to have died by gassing at Auschwitz.

This is you right now :

Overheal

Perhaps a minimum of once a day contingent on trains.

That would still be a quarter million Jews every year. Half a million in two. Doesn’t take much to get up to the established figures though.

wexie

what about the people in these pictures below, do you think they are any less dead than if they had been gassed? Any less victims?

Cheerful Spring

wexie wrote: »

once again...for the cheap seats and the hard of hearing :

they didn't 'just' die in the camps




You yourself pointed out a page or two ago that can't have been the case



This is you right now :

(1.8 million) was the total number of Jews captured and send to the Eastern European gas camps.

This number includes those who survived, got executed, died from gassing? Even those who died from disease and hunger in these camps. We have number total for 4 year period (1939 to 1943)

Korheer even lists the numbers of Jews who were in Ghettos and Labor camps around the Reich not killed by gassing. This accounts for about 1 million Jews.

Why the 6 million is a mistake there no hard statistics on emigration and those Jews who fled to the Soviet Union and avoided capture.

Cheerful Spring

wexie wrote: »

what about the people in these pictures below, do you think they are any less dead than if they had been gassed? Any less victims?

They are Russian civilians who got killed. Wrongly identified as a Holocaust picture. Russia suffered the most during the war 20 million civilians died.

https://worldwariieuropeantheater.wikispaces.com/Invasion+of+Russia

Realt Dearg Sec

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

(1.8 million) was the total number of Jews captured and send to the Eastern European gas camps.

This number includes those who survived, got executed, died from gassing? Even those who died from disease and hunger in these camps. We have number total for 4 year period (1939 to 1943)

Korheer even lists the numbers of Jews who were in Ghettos and Labor camps around the Reich not killed by gassing. This accounts for about 1 million Jews.

Why the 6 million is a mistake there no hard statistics on emigration and those Jews who fled to the Soviet Union and avoided capture.

And back to square one we go. Good luck lads, there's only so long I can spend on this merry-go-round.

Cheerful Spring

Overheal wrote: »

I’m sorry you will never get ‘the perfect ironclad evidence’ you are looking for, but that doesn’t mean it didnt happen.

I agree!

Ipso

So what exactly is this?
Denial of holocaust denial, but just doesn't want to be seen to agree with the mainstream?

Cheerful Spring

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

And back to square one we go. Good luck lads, there's only so long I can spend on this merry-go-round.

You right it's tedious. I have made my point so at that I leave this discussion.

wexie

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You right it's tedious. I have made my point so at that I leave this discussion.

Yet we're all wondering here quite what that 'point' might have been....

I have well reached my capacity for pigeon chess anyways.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They are Russian civilians who got killed. Wrongly identified as a Holocaust picture. Russia suffered the most during the war 20 million civilians died.

https://worldwariieuropeantheater.wikispaces.com/Invasion+of+Russia

You can be Russian, civilian and jew all at the same time.

Overheal

So, now that we’ve come full circle to the numbers and we discussed those at great length, does anyone have anything else constructive to add or have we finally reached a good point to close this convo and let the thread speak for itself in perpetuity?

martingriff

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Auschwitz-Birkenau
Majdanek
Chelmno

Were three other extermination camps.

Then you have the concentration camps in Germany itself thatbwere liquadated as the Allies drew nearer.

Dachau
Bergen-Belson
Buchenwald
Mauthasen
Ravensbrück
Theresianstadt

Then there's the dozens of satellite camps and laboir camps that served factories...

I am reading a book at the moment on the History of the Krupp company I am on the bit of WW2 and i can only read in short bursts with the level of description that is going on

martingriff

wexie wrote: »

Yet we're all wondering here quite what that 'point' might have been....

I have well reached my capacity for pigeon chess anyways.

I have pulled back from this thread as it was getting no where but have read now the whole thread and I still don't know if he/she only count those who are gassed as they were at the hands of the Nazi's and discounting those who dies of disease and malnutrition as they died of disease and malnutrition

dr.fuzzenstein

If Cheerful Spring went to court over this thread, this is what would happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

It really is this thread in a nutshell

Also

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/jan/26/irving.uk

Accused by the defendants of being "a liar and a falsifier of history", he depends on a 1988 report by a man called Fred Leuchter, who had taken samples from ruins at Auschwitz and concluded that there were never homicidal gas chambers there.

Prof van Pelt described crematorium two at Auschwitz - where he said 500,000 people had died - as the "absolute centre of the atrocity".

Evidence for the killings included blueprints for building works, the buildings themselves, and accounts of camp officials and sonderkommandos - Jewish prisoners who worked in the crematoria.

He said that when he first saw the surviving original blueprints, he saw not just documents but part of "a state sponsored project to kill Jews".

King Mob

I think Cheerful done a great job of demonstrating the levels of dishonesty and ignorance needed to be a full fledged holocaust denier.
He's also shown that the entire thing is not evidence driven, but agenda driven.

It's worth noting that neither he, nor any of the deniers who used the argument have not actually addressed my questions in the op.
But I guarantee and he and they will still use the myth that the death toll at Auschwitz used to be 4 million.

Chrongen

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

Cheerful Spring

Chrongen wrote: »

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

No the number of 6 million is based on the pre-war and post-war Jewish population in Europe.

The Jewish holocaust people claim only 3.8 million Jews were left in Europe in 1950 out of 9.4 million This stat of 3.8 million Jewish people is not historical it's claim made by a Holocaust researcher.

They also have not accounted for emigration post-war and pre-war and Jewish people in Eastern Europe who escaped. Poland had the highest concentration of Jewish people almost 4 million. Soviet Union documents released proved that Jews in the Soviet Union occupied Poland knew the fate awaiting them so they fled deeper into the Soviet Union to escape.

King Mob

Chrongen wrote: »

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

No. Because again, the figure was never included in the total number of deaths.

The 6 million figure relies on a total of around 1 million deaths and has for a very long time.

This answer is clear and obvious if you actually Google it and read a break down of the figures.

The only other reason you would ask this question is if you think it's a good rethoric question that holocaust believers can't answer, and never actually cared about the response.

So which was it?
Didn't bother to Google?
Or racist propaganda speaking point?

dr.fuzzenstein

This thread has been going around in circles. Quite a few times.
I think all anyone needs to do is go back to the start again from here on.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

No the number of 6 million is based on the pre-war and post-war Jewish population in Europe.
.

Another lie. It's been pointed out to you repeatedly that this is not the sole source. You know it isn't.
Yet you have to lie about it.