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Holocaust Denial [MOD NOTE POST #1]

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    #452
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Krema 1 is a reconstruction for visitors to Auschwitz.

    https://www.historiography-project.com/books/pressac-auschwitz/16.php

    Provide your falsifiable thesis statement for this discussion in your next post or we are done here.


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    #453
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,836 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    King Mob wrote: »
    I'd counter by saying that he's not asking genuine questions, but rather parroting impressive sounding points and gotcha statements that he's taken from racist propaganda sources in the belief that he's making some kind of point.
    (Even if some of those contradict themselves and each other when used together.)

    It amounts to the same thing. Whether the sentence has an interrogative at the start and a question mark at the end or not, the objective is to call into question the generally accepted explanation of the facts, without ever having to provide a coherent explanation of one's own.

    The reason this debate is infinite is because only one side of it was obliged to provide such an explanation. If CS was told that he can't have an argument until he clarifies what he is arguing, this thread would be over. EDIT: Overheal beat me to it.


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    #454
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    According to you. There is no evidence gas was released through shower heads.

    Not released through the heads. Extracted. Read the post again.


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    #455
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    It amounts to the same thing. Whether the sentence has an interrogative at the start and a question mark at the end or not, the objective is to call into question the generally accepted explanation of the facts, without ever having to provide a coherent explanation of one's own.

    The reason this debate is infinite is because only one side of it was obliged to provide such an explanation. If CS was told that he can't have an argument until he clarifies what he is arguing, this thread would be over. EDIT: Overheal beat me to it.

    Yep. That is now the case. Good talk gentlemen.


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    #456
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    And it was as it reacts to heat, moisture and oxygen but they was a negative pressure gas release system in each chamber. It's that's the apparatus that looked like shower heads...

    According to you. There is no evidence gas was released through shower heads.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    And it was as it reacts to heat, moisture and oxygen but they was a negative pressure gas release system in each chamber. It's that's the apparatus that looked like shower heads...

    According to you. There is no evidence gas was released through shower heads.


    Never omce said that. I said the gas was released out of the chamber by what looked like shower heads...


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    #457
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    King Mob wrote: »
    I'd counter by saying that he's not asking genuine questions, but rather parroting impressive sounding points and gotcha statements that he's taken from racist propaganda sources in the belief that he's making some kind of point.
    (Even if some of those contradict themselves and each other when used together.)

    Conspiracy theorists pride themselves on not being like all the sheeple, it's a kind of non-conformism which makes them feel unique and special.
    With people like Alex Jones and well known attention seekers, the problem is that they have to constantly one up themselves as someone else will steal the lime light.


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    #458
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Overheal wrote: »
    https://www.historiography-project.com/books/pressac-auschwitz/16.php

    Provide your falsifiable thesis statement for this discussion in your next post or we are done here.

    What statement it's a verifiable fact the Krema 1 is a construction done by the Soviets in 1947.

    This website supports the Holocaust.
    Therefore, the Museum authorities restored Crema/Gas Chamber 1, according to Nazi blueprints from September 25, 1941 and eyewitness testimony.

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab10-gas-chamber-fake/


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    #459
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not released through the heads. Extracted. Read the post again.

    Provide evidence for this are you just going to accept his word on it? This is the first time I have heard the shower heads extracted gas outside the building.


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    #460
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    What statement it's a verifiable fact the Krema 1 is a construction done by the Soviets in 1947.

    A statement of what it is you're actually trying to argue.

    Something along the lines of :

    I, Cheerful Spring, believe that.....bladibladibla

    and I believe this because....bladibladibla


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    #461
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    wexie wrote: »
    A statement of what it is you're actually trying to argue.

    Something along the lines of :

    I, Cheerful Spring, believe that.....bladibladibla

    and I believe this because....bladibladibla

    Krema 1 is a reconstruction Jesus Christ even the holocaust supporters don't deny that.


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    #462
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    What statement it's a verifiable fact the Krema 1 is a construction done by the Soviets in 1947.

    This website supports the Holocaust.
    Therefore, the Museum authorities restored Crema/Gas Chamber 1, according to Nazi blueprints from September 25, 1941 and eyewitness testimony.

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab10-gas-chamber-fake/
    You know very well what is meant. Another tongue and cheek answer will get you a ban.


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    #463
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Overheal wrote: »
    You know very well what is meant. Another tongue and cheek answer will get you a ban.

    For what providing you evidence Kerma 1 was a reconstruction something you asked me to verify?


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    #464
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Krema 1 is a reconstruction Jesus Christ even the holocaust supporters don't deny that.
    No cheerful,
    People are now done chasing you around on points you can't and won't answer.

    Now we are asking you to get to your point.

    Outline your beliefs on the holocaust and why you believe that.

    We are asking because you have not done this at any point and have contradicted yourself several times.
    If all you have is "questions" you don't want the answers to...

    I think now he's trying to earn a ban so at the very least he can claim oppression out of this whole embarrassment of his.


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    #465
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    No cheerful,
    People are now done chasing you around on points you can't and won't answer.

    Now we are asking you to get to your point.

    Outline your beliefs on the holocaust and why you believe that.

    We are asking because you have not done this at any point and have contradicted yourself several times.
    If all you have is "questions" you don't want the answers to...

    There four of you posting I have only got two hands I can't post that quickly.


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    #466
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There four of you posting I have only got two hands I can't post that quickly.
    My question could have been answered with one figure and a copy paste of a link.

    Or "I can't answer that question because I don't know."

    Wouldn't have taken you long. So not buying that lie


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    #467
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There four of you posting I have only got two hands I can't post that quickly.

    People are literally no clearer on what you think as your reasoning seems to explain every few days. Do you believe gas chambers were used to kill large amounts of people? Do you believe that a large scale genocide of Jewish people and other groups occurred?


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    #468
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Overheal wrote: »
    Not released through the heads. Extracted. Read the post again.

    Provide evidence for this are you just going to accept his word on it? This is the first time I have heard the shower heads extracted gas outside the building.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Overheal wrote: »
    Not released through the heads. Extracted. Read the post again.

    Provide evidence for this are you just going to accept his word on it? This is the first time I have heard the shower heads extracted gas outside the building.

    It's the commonly accepted method of has extraction, and makes sense as yoi'd be a bit confused of you were told you were going for a shower and there were no shower heads...


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    #469
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    For what providing you evidence Kerma 1 was a reconstruction something you asked me to verify?

    I’m already considering a 2 week ban for this post already. You’ve been given serious lattitude and continue to think it won’t run out.

    You know very well I am referring to what you are trying to prove: are you trying to prove Jews weren’t gassed to death in the Holocaust, at concentration camps? Are you trying to prove the Holocaust was a Hoax? In other words, what is your sum-whole objective argument for posting in this thread? Be very specific and detailed in your answer. If you don’t think you can manage, don’t post in this thread again, or your ban will be for a month.


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    #470
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Cheerful.
    How far would have the zyklon b penetrated?
    Please provide an exact figure and provide a scientific study to support this figure.

    Not sure why I have to repeatedly ask you for this.
    Can you not provide this number? Can you not provide the study?

    Outside the wall. Zyklon 12 penetrated through from the inside to the outside wall in the delousing rooms.

    It scientifically is proven because we have evidence of this already as the Cyanide went through the same exact brick used to construct the walls of the delousing rooms and the gas chambers. You denying photographic evidence in that case, if you think this can't happen.


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    #471
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Also the Nazis were sticklers for efficiency. Why would they create the Totenkopft SS except to carry out the final solution, they were fighting a war on three fronts....

    The holocaust happened, accept it, please

    Point is unless they were doing exactly what the rest of world knows they were doing, would they not be absorbed into the Waffen SS and the Gestapo?


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    #472
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    King Mob wrote: »
    Cheerful.
    How far would have the zyklon b penetrated?
    Please provide an exact figure and provide a scientific study to support this figure.

    Not sure why I have to repeatedly ask you for this.
    Can you not provide this number? Can you not provide the study?

    Outside the wall. Zyklon 12 penetrated through from the inside to the outside wall in the delousing rooms.

    It scientifically is proven because we have evidence of this already as the Cyanide went through the same exact brick used to construct the walls of the delousing rooms and the gas chambers. You denying photographic evidence in that case, if you think this can't happen.

    Who is 'we' please provide the organisation that carried out this research...


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    #473
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Outside the wall. Zyklon 12 penetrated through from the inside to the outside wall in the delousing rooms.

    It scientifically is proven because we have evidence of this already as the Cyanide went through the same exact brick used to construct the walls of the delousing rooms and the gas chambers. You denying photographic evidence in that case, if you think this can't happen.

    You are denying science and the difference in conditions of use as we have already been over now what, a half dozen times? There is no thesis here. Last chance. Don’t waste it ignoring moderator instruction please.


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    #474
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Outside the wall. Zyklon 12 penetrated through from the inside to the outside wall in the delousing rooms.

    It scientifically is proven because we have evidence of this already as the Cyanide went through the same exact brick used to construct the walls of the delousing rooms and the gas chambers. You denying photographic evidence in that case, if you think this can't happen.

    You haven't cited research, you have cited a man who is discredited. The burden of proof is upon you...


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    #475
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Outside the wall. Zyklon 12 penetrated through from the inside to the outside wall in the delousing rooms.

    It scientifically is proven because we have evidence of this already as the Cyanide went through the same exact brick used to construct the walls of the delousing rooms and the gas chambers. You denying photographic evidence in that case, if you think this can't happen.
    Well no, again, photographic evidence is not acceptable here.
    1. You are a liar who has trouble with photographic evidence: See your post history.
    2. You are the one who insisted on scientific studies when your expert disagreed with you.

    So, again. Figure. Study. Else you are again, lying.


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    #476
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Another point, photographic evidence is only valid if it actually catches the offence taking place and unless it's video a witness statement to confirm what is shows. You have shown us pictures of bricks and rooms... with no source credit or accompanying evidence to provide credibility.


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    #477
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m already considering a 2 week ban for this post already. You’ve been given serious lattitude and continue to think it won’t run out.

    You know very well I am referring to what you are trying to prove: are you trying to prove Jews weren’t gassed to death in the Holocaust, at concentration camps? Are you trying to prove the Holocaust was a Hoax? In other words, what is your sum-whole objective argument for posting in this thread? Be very specific and detailed in your answer. If you don’t think you can manage, don’t post in this thread again, or your ban will be for a month.

    I happily end the holocaust gas chambers discussion if you want?

    My belief is millions of Jews got killed during the war. Jews were executed by Nazis guards, soldiers and officers, and many more were rounded up elsewhere by the Nazi war machine were shot and murdered. Jews died from killer diseases in these concentration camps. They died from hunger and overwork in these camps. To deny a holocaust i be claiming Nazis did not murder Jews.

    This for me is a difficult question. When you question the narrative about gas chambers people automatically assume you're denying Nazis gassed Jews. For me, I would like it to proven scientifically and there be no doubts this happened no holes in the evidence whatsoever.

    Yes, I agree with you the conditions in the gas chambers could have resulted in no Prussia blue penetrating the brick walls and leaving a blue residue on the outside wall of the gas chambers? The problem is though these conditions never got tested scientifically, no hard data peer reviewed by the scientific community worldwide exists to confirm this claim. If this was done, the notion no gas chambers existed would disappear and revisionists would not have a leg to stand on.

    Luechter evidence is entirely based on Cyanide penetrating the gas chamber walls and result left behind is Prussia blue.

    .


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    #478
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m already considering a 2 week ban for this post already. You’ve been given serious lattitude and continue to think it won’t run out.

    You know very well I am referring to what you are trying to prove: are you trying to prove Jews weren’t gassed to death in the Holocaust, at concentration camps? Are you trying to prove the Holocaust was a Hoax? In other words, what is your sum-whole objective argument for posting in this thread? Be very specific and detailed in your answer. If you don’t think you can manage, don’t post in this thread again, or your ban will be for a month.

    I happily end the holocaust gas chambers discussion if you want?

    My belief is millions of Jews got killed during the war. Jews were executed by Nazis guards, soldiers and officers, and many more were rounded up elsewhere by the Nazi war machine were shot and murdered. Jews died from killer diseases in these concentration camps. They died from hunger and overwork in these camps. To deny a holocaust i be claiming Nazis did not murder Jews.

    This for me is a difficult question. When you question the narrative about gas chambers people automatically assume you're denying Nazis gassed Jews. For me, I would like it to proven scientifically and there be no doubts this happened no holes in the evidence whatsoever.

    Yes, I agree with you the conditions in the gas chambers could have resulted in no Prussia blue penetrating the brick walls and leaving a blue residue on the outside wall of the gas chambers? The problem is though these conditions never got tested scientifically, no hard data peer reviewed by the scientific community worldwide exists to confirm this claim. If this was done, the notion no gas chambers existed would disappear and revisionists would not have a leg to stand on.

    Luechter evidence is entirely based on Cyanide penetrating the gas chamber walls and result left behind is Prussia blue.

    .

    It has been proven... witness testimony from SS Soldiers who distinctly remember opening that lid a pouring zyklon b pellets into a chamber full of naked people...


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    #479
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    It has been proven... witness testimony from SS Soldiers who distinctly remember opening that lid a pouring zyklon b pellets into a chamber full of naked people...

    This evidence has been discredited since 1945. One officer at Auschwitz (he name escapes me now) claimed they only carried out 1 gassing a day in 24 hour period. Holocaust researcher even admitted on camera this not possible considering how many Jews are claimed to have died by gassing at Auschwitz.


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    #480
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    It has been proven... witness testimony from SS Soldiers who distinctly remember opening that lid a pouring zyklon b pellets into a chamber full of naked people...

    This evidence has been discredited since 1945. One officer at Auschwitz (he name escapes me now) claimed they only carried out 1 gassing a day in 24 hour period. Holocaust researcher even admitted on camera this not possible considering how many Jews are claimed to have died by gassing at Auschwitz.

    When was this once a day rule enacted? During the pending assault from three Soviet Shock Armies? By that point the focus was on destroying evidence...


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    #481
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,917 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Leucthers evidence is also heavily flawed, for detailed reasons that have already been gone into. We have no measurements for his samples, the lab resultingly tested entire masses of brick resulting in lowered concentrations, and there is reason to believe he deliberately avoided sample collections in areas he know would have high concentrations.

    I’m sorry you will never get ‘the perfect ironclad evidence’ you are looking for, but that doesn’t mean it didnt happen. The only way you could possibly get the evidence you seek is to recreate the exact conditions in the chambers: ie. Gassing hundreds of thousands of Jews in one over a period of years to see how much permeation occurs. Or, time travel I guess. We have some very reasonable and scientifically founded hypotheses for why there is no blue staining in the gas chambers as were in the delousing chambers but you choose to ignore that is incredulous while still holding up the Leuchter Report - that’s a clear double standard.

    Not to mention the overwhelming number of accounts from survivors and from officers who ran the camps, and other evidence that has presented itself that shows that’s what was going on, including the poison pellets produced and sold to the camps by the metric tons. And the crematoriums. And the trains. And all else. I don’t see how there is any room for there to be debate on whether the cyanide gassing occurred.


This discussion has been closed.
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