Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

So if it didn't happen to you, it didn't happen. You do realise we're two different people, from two different areas, and that people's lives and realities can be....different? But if it makes you feel clever to dismiss an account of sexual harassment, go ahead and do so. I'll never understand your mentality.

It was the everyday and random aspect of it that made it tough to believe. Everyday from the age of 11 up. Well I’ll say this, it’s harrowing if it’s true. And if it is I’m sorry. It didn’t happen me or my family or friends that I know about growing up but you’re right, everyone is different. If it genuinely happened you everyday from strangers then you were very unlucky and I apologise if my original doubts upset you.

Bob_Marley

Worried Father wrote: »

Victim Blamer! Get him!

Tell us worried father, if it happened to your young daughter, and she was used in a drunken threesome by professional rugby players, and that night caused her extreme distress, and the lads involved all boasted about what they did to her, and she is put on trial in that court where her bloody underwear was passed around, and your daughter failed to prove consent was withheld beyond reasonable doubt, and therefore they were declared not guilty of rape . . How would you feel ?

Silentcorner

Nermal wrote: »

She's not on trial, what would her representative do?



Hyperbole. She was robustly cross-examined, what else do you want?



You want evidence to be kept secret?



Your only worthwhile proposal is that the defendants be anonymous, everything else would prevent a fair trial.

So what do you suggest? We should be happy that we have a conviction rate of 15 out of 825 alleged rape incidents....

Silentcorner

Todd Gack wrote: »

Why would she need a defence team?, she wasn't on trial.

She most certainly was....

optogirl

Fann Linn wrote: »

Okay, and what did your parents or teachers do?

I didn't tell them. I was embarassed by it.

Ulysses Gaze

Silentcorner wrote: »

She did not have a legal team...you are absolutely incorrect...alleged victims have nobody apart from their families with them....

The Ibeleiveher crowd, I am guessing, are exercising their right at protesting what they believe to be an injustice, not just about this case...but about the absolute failure of our society to achieve a conviction rate above 15 out of 825 alleged incidents.....a truly staggering and depressing conviction rate....

I honestly believer her account, but I also honestly believe that the 4 lads should never have been named publically and after due process I wish them well for the future...we should not know the details of this case...it is not in the public interest....more reform needed there also...

The PPSNI legal team represented her and the State against the 4 Accused.

fly_agaric

wexie wrote: »

....good movie plot in that right there :o

I think Black Mirror kind of did it already (but took the concept to extremes course!)

Bob_Marley

Mrsmum wrote: »

Even Stuart Olding doesn't say what you're saying. He at least admits that the girl's perception of what happened was different from his own and he says he regretted the hurt caused to her. He was there and he isn't accusing her of 'regretting it and crying "rape"' Maybe he knows more than you do.

exactly, well said

Silentcorner

John4Edinburgh wrote: »

Here's a proposal. Stop chasing celebs and ending up drunk and starstruck in their bedroom, start taking some personal responsibility and don't end up drunk in the bedroom of a celebrity.

And how does that help the other 810alleged victims out of 825 alleged rape incidents in the north that didn't secure a conviction?

825 of reported rapes that is of course....

Nermal

Bob_Marley wrote: »

blah blah blah . . How would you feel ?

Thankfully the justice system is not built around feelings.

Silentcorner wrote: »

So what do you suggest? We should be happy that we have a conviction rate of 15 out of 825 alleged rape incidents....

I don't think it should make us happy or sad. It reflects the difficulty of proving the crime.

FrancieBrady

Worried Father wrote: »

Nothing will change. There will be girls waking up Sunday morning thinking they were 'raped'.

Roe McDermott reckons that it should be ok for a woman to withdraw her consent when she sobers up.

The Talking Bread

Silentcorner wrote: »

She did not have a legal team...you are absolutely incorrect...alleged victims have nobody apart from their families with them....

The Ibeleiveher crowd, I am guessing, are exercising their right at protesting what they believe to be an injustice, not just about this case...but about the absolute failure of our society to achieve a conviction rate above 15 out of 825 alleged incidents.....a truly staggering and depressing conviction rate....

I honestly believer her account, but I also honestly believe that the 4 lads should never have been named publically and after due process I wish them well for the future...we should not know the details of this case...it is not in the public interest....more reform needed there also...

Eh, Toby Hedworth? He was the prosecution barrister.

Todd Gack

Silentcorner wrote: »

[/B]

She most certainly was....

I didn't see that coming, what were the charges?

Bob_Marley

John4Edinburgh wrote: »

I have a friend who claimed she was "raped". The outcome of this incident was a pregnancy, so therefore she was "raped". I asked her did she remember it, her response was "no, I have no recollection of anything". So this was a rape in her head because she couldn't remember anything of the night before, she couldn't remember giving consent, she couldn't remember having sex, nothing.

She could have had a drunken encounter and been all for it, but she can't remember because of the amount of alcohol involved that night. Was she raped? I don't think that she was but she may have been.

Was it not possible that someone had sex with her why she was passed out ? And if they did, that is most certainly rape.

optogirl

Fann Linn wrote: »

Okay, and what did your parents or teachers do?

I didn't tell them. I was embarassed by it. I can think of at least twice and being shouted at from men in cars in secondary school also...sometimes just general roaring, sometimes insults about my looks. I do realise these guys were cretins and in the minority but there are plenty of them around and when you're 13/14...it's highly intimidating. It would be intimidating now.

anthonyjmaher

I see Una Mullally is predictable as ever.
Decent Men Are Despondent
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-decent-men-are-despondent-1.3445553
The inference that only a subset of men are decent - those that are despondent at the outcome of the court case (and agree with her opinion basically). I'm NOT despondent at the outcome of the court, so that makes me NOT decent is that what you are saying. How is a national newspaper allowed to even print this? What if you replaced the word Men with Travellers, Migrants, or Women. Would the article get printed then - not a f**king chance? Una should give up her own double standards before getting back up on her equality hobby horse.
It really is no wonder that many young men are killing themselves every year with this sort of diatribe being pumped out by the media every day.

Bob_Marley

Nermal wrote: »

Thankfully the justice system is not built around feelings.

I don't think it should make us happy or sad. It reflects the difficulty of proving the crime.

I see you had to edit the quote before posting it.

Mickeroo

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think Black Mirror kind of did it already (but took the concept to extremes course!)

The Orville did it too.

irishrebe

The Talking Bread wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

You're actually expecting a complete stranger on the internet to tell you exactly where they lived and when? Are you kidding me? I lived in Clondalkin from age 3 to 11, and then again from 16-17 (I'm not exactly sure of the exact date we moved back - let me ring my ma and I'll get back to you) to 21 and again after that at different times, so yes, I tell people I'm from Clondalkin. Some of my best friends have no idea that I wasn't born there or that I lived in a different area for a time, and yet someone on Boards.ie thinks he's entitled to tell me I'm a liar because I didn't list every address I've ever lived at. Jesus F*cking Christ On A Bike.

You have been extremely open about it up until now??  You are not afraid to express about how sh*te Clondalkin is, as if it is a badge of honour that you achieved academically? I am not asking you to tell me anything. It is you who has been harping on about your childhood in a "sh*te" (your words) village in Dublin.

If anything, going by the fact that you were continuosly sexually harassed when you moved away from Clondalkin and up until you returned, your time in Clondalkin should spark good memories. And you should be alluding to the other place as "sh*te"

Do you always make such sweeping assumptions about someone's entire life based on a few facts? Is that really how your brain works? You see a few sentences on an internet forum and fill in decades worth of blanks about a person you have NEVER MET? I have actual real life friends who don't know I didn't always live on the one estate, and you, a stranger on the internet, think I should have told you this?
You have absolutely no idea what has happened in my life, yet you think you have the right to tell me my time in Clondalkin should spark good memories? Are you for real?

Silentcorner

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The PPSNI legal team represented her and the State against the 4 Accused.

They did not....

The young lady was like any other rape case was treated as a witness in her own trial....it is perverse...

Pelvis

irishrebe wrote: »

Again, if you don't believe me, then I'm exaggerating and lying. The age old trick to minimise abuse and harassment. It can't have happened. They must be lying. It's too far fetched. Hundreds of gymnasts can have a doctor's hand up their vagina in front of their parents without anyone suspecting anything but a schoolgirl in a short tight skirt getting beeped at is so ludicrous that it must be false. 
I minimised it to my dad because I knew he'd go mental and I didn't want him to get hurt. One older man against loads of fit young men. He thought things had improved after he talked to the boss that one time. I didn't want him talking to the boss again and things becoming even worse for me or for him. I just hoped they'd get bored and stop eventually. I was f*cking 12 years old. Sorry if that wasn't the 'right' reaction for you.

There you go again, misrepresenting. I'm not trying to minimize the abuse, I'm saying outright that I don't believe it happened to the extent you say it did.

I'm not saying a girl getting beeped at is ludicrous at all, another misrepresentation from you. I'm saying being harassed daily over a number of years to the extent you say you were is ludicrous. And the fact you're bring up Larry Nassar in the context of being beeped at tells us all we need to know really.

Bob_Marley

Silentcorner wrote: »

They did not....

The young lady was like any other rape case was treated as a witness in her own trial....it is perverse...

Actually she was treated like the accused, and the accused were treated like mere witnesses. Their underwear wasn't passed around the court.

Silentcorner

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Eh, Toby Hedworth? He was the prosecution barrister.

The prosecution was the CPS....

She did not have any legal representation....how the fukk is that so hard to beleive...

The Talking Bread

Silentcorner wrote: »

The prosecution was the CPS....

She did not have any legal representation....how the fukk is that so hard to beleive...

whoa there tiger..........

optogirl

John4Edinburgh wrote: »

If you take some personal responsibility, you will not be raped.

Is that a fact? I can't believe that you honestly think this. How absolutely dismissive and horrific a thing to say to rape victims, male and female.

Silentcorner

John4Edinburgh wrote: »

If you take some personal responsibility, you will not be raped. This wasn't a rape, it was very clearly a drunken threesome, so your claim of 825 alleged rapes is most probably inclusive of a load of drunken threesomes.

Wakey wakey, I've had drunken threesomes, most of us have done this stuff without having to fear being arrested and questioned the next morning. It may shock you to learn that women are a lot more into this than men are, or at least that has been my personal experience.

The only thing that shocks me about this thread...is how threatened men (and some woman) seem to be at the suggestion that we take great shame on our rape conviction rates.....

Mickeroo

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Actually she was treated like the accused, and the accused were treated like mere witnesses. Their underwear wasn't passed around the court.

Do you think a murder victim's clothing shouldn't be allowed in court too?

Nermal

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I see Una Mullally is predictable as ever.
Decent Men Are Despondent

I don't subscribe. Any chance she means decent men are despondent that Paddy has been done out of a Grand Slam?

Silentcorner

optogirl wrote: »

Is that a fact? I can't believe that you honestly think this. How absolutely dismissive and horrific a thing to say to rape victims, male and female.

We are dealing with someone who doesn't understand what a crime is....

Ulysses Gaze

Silentcorner wrote: »

The prosecution was the CPS....

She did not have any legal representation....how the fukk is that so hard to beleive...

The State is the Guardian of the rule of law. That is why the DPP/PPSNI take cases against accused in every case. In Rape, Murder, GBH cases et al.

If she had her own private legal representation, it would be a civil case. Not criminal.

What do you not understand about that?