New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

PhuckHugh2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Equipment modernization and the flag enabling a change in putting statistic are two different topics.

Is there a study or article to back up this? Or is it just a guess?

Id be leaning towards Greebo on this argument it seems you are trying to take some moral high ground for the sake of sounding like it is for the greater good of the game. I don't see the problem with any of the rule changes myself. If anything its good to know that Golf is being proactive and updating rules in an attempt to make the game better. Whether that is the case or not is another story.

GreeBo

spacecoyote wrote: »

My understanding (and I'm open to correction) is that the rule was updated to make the game faster (and indirectly appears to have made the game easier as a result)

I'm pretty sure I heard John Parramore say in an interview that it wasn't about speed, but cant find anything to confirm it.

/edit Thomas Pagel from USGA kinda says both.

Pagel explained that the intent of the flag rule was to speed up play, not to give players a competitive advantage.

“We said, 'If you make a long putt and you happen to hit the flagstick, is there really a need for a penalty?' The ball might go in. It might not,” Pagel said. “We didn’t look at the data. It was not a data-driven decision. At the end of the day, we thought it might help players, but it also might hurt players.”

In terms of rules I'm not liking, the drop one is definitely the worst. It should read drop must take place from at least knee height.

I think its very awkward to drop from knee height, I would have gone with dropping from a limp arm. It feels ridiculous having to bend over to drop from your knee.

Dbu

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Question folks, with the new rule of dropping from the knee, what is the punishment for someone dropping from shoulder height?

None, just call him a muppet and tell him he must re-drop from the knee:pac:

spacecoyote

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

Is there a study or article to back up this? Or is it just a guess?

Id be leaning towards Greebo on this argument it seems you are trying to take some moral high ground for the sake of sounding like it is for the greater good of the game. I don't see the problem with any of the rule changes myself. If anything its good to know that Golf is being proactive and updating rules in an attempt to make the game better. Whether that is the case or not is another story.

This was posted earlier in the thread:

https://mygolfspy.com/flagstick-in-flagstick-out-2019-new-golf-rules/

FixdePitchmark

Lol - on the posts saying I think I'm a guardian of the sport.

I think this quote says they didn't know what they were doing.

“We didn’t look at the data. It was not a data-driven decision. At the end of the day, we thought it might help players, but it also might hurt players.”

People should look at the stats.

Anyway , the game will go on.

But - I think the new rule is a mess. Agree with GreeBo on one thing , slow players will somehow make this slow. They are just slow doing stuff , no matter what it is.

HighLine

spacecoyote wrote: »

In terms of rules I'm not liking, the drop one is definitely the worst. It should read drop must take place from at least knee height.

I'd imagine the reason for not doing so is to stop lads dropping it from shoulder height who are trying to get the ball to roll outside the relief area twice and so they get to place it up. This is also slow.

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Question folks, with the new rule of dropping from the knee, what is the punishment for someone dropping from shoulder height?

No penalty but they must re-drop the ball in the correct manner (from knee height). If they do not re-drop and then go on to play the ball, it will be a 1 stroke penalty.

PhuckHugh2

spacecoyote wrote: »

This was posted earlier in the thread

Cheers. Missed that.

backspin.

Watching golf now on sky. Vast majority taking flag out.

HighLine

Rory just had a huge horseshoe which probably would have stayed in the hole had the flag been in.... cue next shot and it's Scott putting from 6ft with the flag in and the Beemer and Roe start questioning why he would do that.. "I don't get. Why is he leaving the flag in".... Adam sinks the putt. Idiots.

HighLine

Bit harsh here I would think. General penalty cost him to be demoted from T3 to T12

https://twitter.com/brijon5555/status/1089579263798460416

Seve OB

HighLine wrote: »

Bit harsh here I would think. General penalty cost him to be demoted from T3 to T12
]

Ah that was brutal

slave1

Very harsh alright (I think this was more designed for the Ladies game where the caddy stays there until the last moment, even on iron shots) but an almost picture perfect example of the rule.
Don't like the rule at all but it is what it is, the caddy MUST get out of the way before the player begins taking his stance and he didn't in this case, he got out of the way momentarily after the player began taking his stance

HighLine

Yeah I agree that regarding the LPGA, having the caddies line up every shot looked ridiculous, so glad the rule came in to stop that.

One element of the rule which I think is strange/silly is the distinction between putting and all other shots. So for example, if Haotong Li above had walked away and then restarted the process of addressing the ball when the caddy was not there, there would be no penalty.

But.. for all other shots... even if the player backs away, goes back to the bag and then subsequently plays the shot when the caddy is not there, it is still a general penalty (2 strokes).

(4) Restriction on Caddie Standing Behind Player. When a player begins taking a stance for the stroke and until the stroke is made:

The player’s caddie must not deliberately stand in a location on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason.
If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away.
Exception – Ball on Putting Green: When the player’s ball is on the putting green, there is no penalty under this Rule if the player backs away from the stance and does not begin to take the stance again until after the caddie has moved out of that location.

Seve OB

that sounds a bit daft alright

Johnny_Fontane

Great to see Adam Scott putting away with the flag in this week.

Hopefully see more and more pros doing it.

death1234567

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Great to see Adam Scott putting away with the flag in this week.
Hopefully see more and more pros doing it.

Hopefully they change the rule so you can't take the pin out, ever. No need for it.

Johnny_Fontane

death1234567 wrote: »

Hopefully they change the rule so you can't take the pin out, ever. No need for it.

yep completely agree. Said it before on the thread, play a full round with it in and you'll quickly wonder why you'd ever take it out.

idle

Came up at the weekend. Ball embedded in the grass face of a bunker. Dropping within 1 club length either side results in the ball in the bunker. Must the ball then be played from the bunker?

death1234567

death1234567 wrote: »

Hopefully they change the rule so you can't take the pin out, ever. No need for it.

Its fine for the pros on perfect golf courses but less then perfect courses can have flags which are leaning one way or another which could impede the ball going in the hole,

FixdePitchmark

death1234567 wrote: »

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Great to see Adam Scott putting away with the flag in this week.
Hopefully see more and more pros doing it.

Hopefully they change the rule so you can't take the pin out, ever. No need for it.

No wind and pin type a significant influence on choice.

If wind is in face, you simply have to take flag out.

HighLine

idle wrote: »

Came up at the weekend. Ball embedded in the grass face of a bunker. Dropping within 1 club length either side results in the ball in the bunker. Must the ball then be played from the bunker?

No, you don't play the ball from the bunker. Grass face is outside the bunker so your relief is for the "general area".

So you drop it, if it rolls into the bunker, you drop it again. Then after rolling into the bunker a second time, you get to place it. If you still can't place it without it rolling, you move to the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the ball will be at rest after placing. (If it's a big, steep grass face, this point could be several meters away)

slave1

STATEMENT FROM EUROPEAN TOUR CEO KEITH PELLEY ON THE LI HAOTONG PENALTY

‘There has been much discussion and comment over the past 24 hours on the two-shot penalty given to Li Haotong for his breach of Rule 10.2b (4) on the 18th green of the Omega Dubai Desert Classic.

‘Let me state initially that, under the new Rules of Golf issued on January 1, 2019, the decision made by our referees was correct, under the strict wording of the rules. It is my strong belief, however, that the fact there is no discretion available to our referees when implementing rulings such as this is wrong and should be addressed immediately.

‘Everyone I have spoken to about this believes, as I do, that there was no malice or intent from Li Haotong, nor did he gain any advantage from his, or his caddie’s split-second actions. Therefore the subsequent two shot penalty, which moved him from T3 in the tournament to T12, was grossly unfair in my opinion.

‘In an era where we are striving to improve all aspects of golf, we need to be careful and find the proper balance between maintaining the integrity of the game and promoting its global appeal.

‘I have spoken personally to R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumbers to voice my opposition to the fact there is no discretion available to our referees in relation to this ruling, and I will be making additional representation to the R&A in the near future to discuss the matter further.’

---

10.2b(4) - Restriction on caddie standing behind player – explanation

Li Haotong’s caddie was on a direct line behind the ball when he began to take his stance on the 18th green. The player’s caddie must not stand behind the player for any reason when a player begins taking a stance. Haotong could have avoided the penalty if he had backed off the stroke and retaken his stance. He did not, hence a two-stroke penalty applied to his score on 18.

Read more at http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/news/newsid=365137.html#ZMAbgdMP5VzFaf3c.99

kennethrhcp

Just following on from caddie behind the player rule, does this mean in Bruen your playing partner cant stand behind also?

paulos53

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Just following on from caddie behind the player rule, does this mean in Bruen your playing partner cant stand behind also?

Correct. Rules for caddies apply to playing partners in Foursomes and Fourballs

idle

HighLine wrote: »

No, you don't play the ball from the bunker. Grass face is outside the bunker so your relief is for the "general area".

So you drop it, if it rolls into the bunker, you drop it again. Then after rolling into the bunker a second time, you get to place it. If you still can't place it without it rolling, you move to the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the ball will be at rest after placing. (If it's a big, steep grass face, this point could be several meters away)

Assuming it’s a semi circle shaped links bunker with a steep grass face and the ball is embedded right of centre as you face the green. The nearest point not nearer the hole is outside the right edge of the bunker. I’m now standing in the bunker and the ball is chest height. Is there further relief to get me out of the bunker?

HighLine

idle wrote: »

Assuming it’s a semi circle shaped links bunker with a steep grass face and the ball is embedded right of centre as you face the green. The nearest point not nearer the hole is outside the right edge of the bunker. I’m now standing in the bunker and the ball is chest height. Is there further relief to get me out of the bunker?

Finding it hard to understand... why can't you stand outside the bunker whilst dropping it?

Just to reiterate... your nearest point of relief must be in the general area (i.e. outside the bunker) and you must also drop the ball from knee height at a standing position. The last point only determines your dropping height, it doesn't mean you have to drop it whilst standing. So far example... my knee at standing position is 20" from the ground. So if I want, I can lay flat on my back, raise my arm to 20" high, and drop the ball. This would be a legal drop.

idle

HighLine wrote: »

Finding it hard to understand... why can't you stand outside the bunker whilst dropping it?

Just to reiterate... your nearest point of relief must be in the general area (i.e. outside the bunker) and you must also drop the ball from knee height at a standing position. The last point only determines your dropping height, it doesn't mean you have to drop it whilst standing. So far example... my knee at standing position is 20" from the ground. So if I want, I can lay flat on my back, raise my arm to 20" high, and drop the ball. This would be a legal drop.

Apologies, what I’m trying to say is; having dropped the ball from knee height outside the bunker, in order to play the shot (right handed) I’m standing in the bunker and the ball is chest height. It it tough s**t?

Or do I get one club either side from where I’m dropping it? Thus allowing me drop it one club length outside the bunker and allowing me to take a stance outside the bunker

slave1

All free drops in golf are one club length (longest club in bag except the putter so usually the driver) so you can drop one club length from nearest point which should give you a non-mid-air stance.

GreeBo

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Just following on from caddie behind the player rule, does this mean in Bruen your playing partner cant stand behind also?

Open to correction, but I dont think your partner every could? Rule 14-2b
YOur opposition could & still can, but your partner cant.
Was 2 stroke penalty for the player if partner breaches this rule.

HighLine

GreeBo wrote: »

Open to correction, but I dont think your partner every could? Rule 14-2b
YOur opposition could & still can, but your partner cant.
Was 2 stroke penalty for the player if partner breaches this rule.

That's true but there is a slight change in the wording of the new rule.
The old rule stated "in making a stroke" whereas the new rule 10-2 b(4) says "When a player begins taking a stance for the stroke and until the stroke is made"

Slight change as I said but one that Haotong Li will know fairly well.

Also.. I don't think the following restriction was included for strokes made other than on the putting green...

"If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away." 10-2 b(4)