New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

clog

The official changes & amendments have been released.

https://www.randa.org/News/2018/03/New-Rules-of-Golf-unveiled-by-The-RA-and-USGA?utm_campaign=354829_Golfs%20Modernised%20Rules%20Released&utm_medium=email&utm_source=R%26A&dm_i=49MT,7LSD,13OSIY,TN2W,1

Seve OB

clog wrote: »

The official changes & amendments have been released.

https://www.randa.org/News/2018/03/New-Rules-of-Golf-unveiled-by-The-RA-and-USGA?utm_campaign=354829_Golfs%20Modernised%20Rules%20Released&utm_medium=email&utm_source=R%26A&dm_i=49MT,7LSD,13OSIY,TN2W,1

first thing I picked up is you may never ever have to hit a provisional ball again

Balls Lost or Out of Bounds: Alternative to Stroke and Distance: A new Local Rule will now be available in January 2019, permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds (including the nearest fairway area), under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions. (Key change: this is a new addition to support pace of play)

HighLine

Seve OB wrote: »

first thing I picked up is you may never ever have to hit a provisional ball again

Thankfully just a local rule option and at that, it's a farcical introduction IMO. Not that hard to just play a provisional ball if a player thinks his first may be in trouble.

Elsewhere, I see they have thankfully gone back to the measuring of relief distances using a club rather than inches.
Also dropping is now from knee height rather than from just off the ground.

Seve OB

HighLine wrote: »

Thankfully just a local rule option and at that, it's a farcical introduction IMO. Not that hard to just play a provisional ball if a player thinks his first may be in trouble.

Elsewhere, I see they have thankfully gone back to the measuring of relief distances using a club rather than inches.
Also dropping is now from knee height rather than from just off the ground.

agree with all that

Russman

HighLine wrote: »

Thankfully just a local rule option and at that, it's a farcical introduction IMO. Not that hard to just play a provisional ball if a player thinks his first may be in trouble.

Elsewhere, I see they have thankfully gone back to the measuring of relief distances using a club rather than inches.
Also dropping is now from knee height rather than from just off the ground.

Completely agree its farcical ! Pandering to the lazy ba$tards who couldn't be arsed to hit a provo or to go back - I mean, realistically, how often does it happen that you need to hit a provo ? I suspect its inclusion is a result of US feedback, from reading other forums.
Plus, with it being a local rule you'll have different courses having it and not having it.

Not a big fan of not having to announce you're identifying your ball either, too open to abuse IMO.

ForeRight

Anything about repairing spike marks on the green?

HighLine

ForeRight wrote: »

Anything about repairing spike marks on the green?

Yes, players will be able to repair spike marks from 2019. #speedupthegame

Seve OB

ForeRight wrote: »

Anything about repairing spike marks on the green?

yea no problem fixing anything on the green or touching the line

slave1

Seve OB wrote: »

first thing I picked up is you may never ever have to hit a provisional ball again

This is that they do in the states, I've played with quite a few Americans and the have a quick look and then drop with 2 stoke penalty, keeps the game moving

HighLine

slave1 wrote: »

This is that they do in the states, I've played with quite a few Americans and the have a quick look and then drop with 2 stoke penalty, keeps the game moving

Or... you could just hit a provisional off the tee like 99% of golfers do over here. Also keeps things moving. Rather than Paddy dropping a ball in the middle of the fairway 100 yards further on than where his actual lost drive went.

Seve OB

slave1 wrote: »

This is that they do in the states, I've played with quite a few Americans and the have a quick look and then drop with 2 stoke penalty, keeps the game moving

i disagree with it big time.

fine for a casual game.

in matchplay though...... fella sticks a ball miles down but it goes ob. how many times have we hit 2 balls in a row ob????? to many to mention and it is a quick lost hole.
but of course a reload can be a gentle one half the distance or find other trouble behind a tree/bush/bunker. of course he could flush one, but advantage deffo lies with opposition.

now all he has to do is drop one down where he hit it out of play...... advantage is lost big time for the guy who stayed in play

Mantis Toboggan

So if the tee shot goes ob and he drops one where he thinks went in, is he playing his 3rd or 4th shot?

martinkop

Tyson Fury wrote: »

So if the tee shot goes ob and he drops one where he thinks went in, is he playing his 3rd or 4th shot?

He'd be playing his 4th.

seamie78

4th its a two stroke penalty

Russman

Seve OB wrote: »

i disagree with it big time.

fine for a casual game.

in matchplay though...... fella sticks a ball miles down but it goes ob. how many times have we hit 2 balls in a row ob????? to many to mention and it is a quick lost hole.
but of course a reload can be a gentle one half the distance or find other trouble behind a tree/bush/bunker. of course he could flush one, but advantage deffo lies with opposition.

now all he has to do is drop one down where he hit it out of play...... advantage is lost big time for the guy who stayed in play

I think the two shot penalty somewhat mitigates that though, no ?

I wouldn't be the biggest fan of the rule to be honest, I think it takes away from the spirit of golfing your ball round the full course.

Seve OB

Russman wrote: »

I think the two shot penalty somewhat mitigates that though, no ?

I wouldn't be the biggest fan of the rule to be honest, I think it takes away from the spirit of golfing your ball round the full course.

no because a fella can quite easily put 2 out of bounds. in matchplay then thats 5 off the tee, and more often than not hole lost. plenty of times playing 3 off the tee can still win holes

Keano

Seve OB wrote: »

no because a fella can quite easily put 2 out of bounds. in matchplay then thats 5 off the tee, and more often than not hole lost. plenty of times playing 3 off the tee can still win holes

You shouldn't be losing the hole to someone who is playing their 4th shot where you are hitting your second. There is a tiny chance of them getting up and down!

RoadRunner

Keano wrote: »

You shouldn't be losing the hole to someone who is playing their 4th shot where you are hitting your second.

Hope @charlieIRL doesn't see this!

ForeRight

With it being a local rule maybe clubs won't allow it in matchplay events or the likes but I can see the logic in it for a medal at our level of golf where someone could easily be struggling to get off the tee on a very tight shot with OOB and trees etc in play.

A player may have hit a couple OOB and maybe into trees where they can't find it and they've to keep re hitting. It's terribly slow in a strokes event at our level of play as it is and this will help keep things moving a little better. Only a little though.

Seve OB

Keano wrote: »

You shouldn't be losing the hole to someone who is playing their 4th shot where you are hitting your second. There is a tiny chance of them getting up and down!

i agree you shouldn't but it is very easily done.

Russman

Seve OB wrote: »

no because a fella can quite easily put 2 out of bounds. in matchplay then thats 5 off the tee, and more often than not hole lost. plenty of times playing 3 off the tee can still win holes

I agree someone could put a second ball out, but I've rarely seen it to be honest in a match (unless its say, someone cutting dogleg with their provo, knowing its a matchplay risk free situation). I can see your point though, in theory player A could have his ball but still be in big trouble whereas player B could be playing 4 from the fairway in a nice position. I don't like this rule but I think looking at the potential for another bad shot doesn't really work IMO. Chances are, most, or at least a good portion, of the time the player will be playing from where there's a fair chance he'd have hit his 3rd to anyway.

ForeRight wrote: »

this will help keep things moving a little better. Only a little though.

This is the bit for me that doesn't really stack up - in reality how often does someone having to go back, actually stack up the course. If we're down to this as being a cause of slow play then we've solved an awful lot of bigger issues !

ForeRight

I've seen balls lost in rough or what appeared to be perfect from the tee in play lots of times.

So you'd have people searching for a ball for 3 minutes to then have to go walk all the way back and hit again. There is always someone then on the tee waiting to play. It's a horrible situation then add in all this happening on a hole that has danger off the tee like OOB or a bottle neck of trees tee shot. The person hits OOB or into the trees in a medal.

I can see how easily a course can turn to shambolic pace quite quickly

slave1

HighLine wrote: »

Or... you could just hit a provisional off the tee like 99% of golfers do over here. Also keeps things moving. Rather than Paddy dropping a ball in the middle of the fairway 100 yards further on than where his actual lost drive went.

Seve OB wrote: »

i disagree with it big time.

fine for a casual game.

in matchplay though...... fella sticks a ball miles down but it goes ob. how many times have we hit 2 balls in a row ob????? to many to mention and it is a quick lost hole.
but of course a reload can be a gentle one half the distance or find other trouble behind a tree/bush/bunker. of course he could flush one, but advantage deffo lies with opposition.

now all he has to do is drop one down where he hit it out of play...... advantage is lost big time for the guy who stayed in play

Hey, I was just posting that it's US guys that I've seen doing it and remember casual rounds count towards their handicap so rounds where they do this two stroke thingy are "counting" rounds.
Personally I have no problem with continuing with provisional ball but there are times when even that can be abused, guys a bit rusty just hitting provisional balls to loosen up or sort out some swing issue mid round, "that balls fine, you'll get it no problem" - - - "ah sure I'll just hit a provisional".

I'd say if the ball in question is lost nowhere near a hazard or OOB e.g. over the crest of a fairway in the rough between two holes then it appears logical as that can be a situation where a golfer would not expect to hit a provisional especially if unfamiliar with the course, just drop, take the two stroke penalty and keep the game moving

slave1

I like the one about not having to have the flag pulled when putting, often found myself at front of huge green and having to wait for someone to go up and attend, such a waste of time

Montgolfier

The local rule for ob needs a little clarification. Are we to let our opponent estimate where it went out of bounds!??

Then drop on the fairways! I've seen fellas looking for their ball 60 yards ahead of where it was eventually found.
Can you imagine those guys estimate where their ball went out.
I hope no course brings that in as a local rule in Ireland.

HighLine

Another good introduction is relief from an embedded ball through the green (the entire course except hazards and teebox&green of hole being played). It always annoyed me watching the professionals getting relief from a plugged ball through the green but us amateurs are expected to hack it out (or take an unplayable) when our ball plugs in semi/rough.

The 40 seconds per shot is far too long. Count that out in your head and pretend you're standing over a ball. It should be at least half that time.

mike12

For ob I'm happy enough that it's the same as a water hazard but a extra stroke penalty.
Lost ball it will speed up the game but harder to judge where it's lost.
We need to know can u still hit provisional and then decide I'll take a drop from the first.
An unplayable ball can u take the same option, if u can only go back and play from the original spot.

Rikand

I like all the changes but worry that the spike marks one could be manipulated to repair every single tiny little tarnish on the greens and thus increase time.

Jawgap

Montgolfier wrote: »

The local rule for ob needs a little clarification. Are we to let our opponent estimate where it went out of bounds!??

Then drop on the fairways! I've seen fellas looking for their ball 60 yards ahead of where it was eventually found.
Can you imagine those guys estimate where their ball went out.
I hope no course brings that in as a local rule in Ireland.

If you're not happy then I think the option remains of reporting the player (in strokes) for playing from the wrong spot or indicating you intend to lodge a protest in matchplay.

I'm guessing in a group the player who went oob won't be the final arbiter of where the ball went out, or if it was lost where it was lost.

I think they need to clarify what "in the vicinity" means in more specific terms - so you can't just drop back in the middle of the fairway when your ball when 50 yards into the rough.

Personally, I think the option of a local rule represents a bit of common sense and it can always be suspended for certain competitions, if local committees are minded to introduce it in the first place.

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

The local rule for ob needs a little clarification. Are we to let our opponent estimate where it went out of bounds!??

I think it'll end up being like a water hazard where you'd agree with your opponent where the ball crossed. Obviously there could be arguments / different opinions etc.

Jawgap wrote: »

I think they need to clarify what "in the vicinity" means in more specific terms - so you can't just drop back in the middle of the fairway when your ball when 50 yards into the rough.

The video and the diagram below cover it nicely. You don't get to go back to the middle of the fairway, at best you'll get two club lengths into the fairway from the nearest edge, not nearer the hole than where you estimate the ball is lost.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

Russman

mike12 wrote: »

We need to know can u still hit provisional and then decide I'll take a drop from the first.

Part of the text from the sample local rule:


"But with these limits:
Limits on Location of Relief Area:

• Must be in the general area, and
• Must not be nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

But, the player may not use this option when:

• The ball is known or virtually certain to have come to rest in a penalty area, or
• The player has played another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 18.3).”

spacecoyote

So, I know that there is the drop for an OB ball coming in, but is there also a lost ball rule coming in (ie, no OB on the hole, but ball just can't be found)?

HighLine

Russman wrote: »

The video and the diagram below cover it nicely. You don't get to go back to the middle of the fairway, at best you'll get two club lengths into the fairway from the nearest edge, not nearer the hole than where you estimate the ball is lost.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

It's still allowing you to drop on the fairway, albeit not the middle. That's even more farcical IMO. And it's actually a complex system for doing it.

In particular the procedure for a lost ball. Don't understand the need for the initial 2 club length measurement given the arc will be so wide as to include the fairway. Players don't even know how to correctly drop a ball as it is!

Seve OB

spacecoyote wrote: »

So, I know that there is the drop for an OB ball coming in, but is there also a lost ball rule coming in (ie, no OB on the hole, but ball just can't be found)?

that's the way i read the whole of the rule.

another reason why i think it stinks

Russman

HighLine wrote: »

It's still allowing you to drop on the fairway, albeit not the middle. That's even more farcical IMO. And it's actually a complex system for doing it.

In particular the procedure for a lost ball. Don't understand the need for the initial 2 club length measurement given the arc will be so wide as to include the fairway. Players don't even know how to correctly drop a ball as it is!

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

HighLine

Russman wrote: »

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

I actually think (or hope) most Irish clubs won't implement the rule.

As for American golf, I think playing stableford format more would help speed things up.

Seve OB

Russman wrote: »

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

I think relief from divots is OK. After all, you hit a good shot, find the fairway and then you find yourself with a bad lie. Granted, more often than not you will be able to hit a clean enough shot from a divot, but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

Russman

Seve OB wrote: »

but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

I'd argue its luck of the game, its not played in a vacuum so there needs to be some element of chance surely. If you got a bounce off a tree into the middle of the fairway you wouldn't look to drop it back in the woods !

Plus there would be the whole area of "what's a divot" ?!

Webbs

Russman wrote: »

I'd argue its luck of the game, its not played in a vacuum so there needs to be some element of chance surely. If you got a bounce off a tree into the middle of the fairway you wouldn't look to drop it back in the woods !

Plus there would be the whole area of "what's a divot" ?!

The element of chance thing I have seen argued as well for bunkers in that they shouldnt be raked as they are a 'hazard'.

Russman

HighLine wrote: »

I actually think (or hope) most Irish clubs won't implement the rule.

I dunno, I'd say there will be such a groundswell of support for it, that committees will have to implement it tbh.

I agree it seems against a lot of what we know/think, but, really, will it have a huge impact in the overall scheme of things ? I think in a lot of cases the guy will simply be playing his 4th shot from reasonably close to where he likely would have hit his provisional to anyway (or 3rd shot, had he walked back). How many times have we seen a guy hit a great provisional and mutter "should have done that the first time" ? More often than not I'd argue.

Russman

Webbs wrote: »

The element of chance thing I have seen argued as well for bunkers in that they shouldnt be raked as they are a 'hazard'.

There's definitely an argument there too. I know I've been in someone's heel print in a bunker a lot more often than I've been in a divot on the fairway !
I think it comes back to the idea of play it as it lies.

Jawgap

Seve OB wrote: »

I think relief from divots is OK. After all, you hit a good shot, find the fairway and then you find yourself with a bad lie. Granted, more often than not you will be able to hit a clean enough shot from a divot, but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

From a practical perspective I think relief from divots should've been included - it doesn't help courses to have golfers coming along and making existing divots bigger and deeper.

I've been in deep divots (no relief) and shallow animal scrapes where you do get relief - personally, I think divots should be treated as GUR.

frink

Jawgap wrote: »

From a practical perspective I think relief from divots should've been included - it doesn't help courses to have golfers coming along and making existing divots bigger and deeper.

I've been in deep divots (no relief) and shallow animal scrapes where you do get relief - personally, I think divots should be treated as GUR.

Agreed and sanded divots. I know Rosslare treat sanded divots as GUR but think that is a local rule

Jawgap

frink wrote: »

Agreed and sanded divots. I know Rosslare treat sanded divots as GUR but think that is a local rule

Plus, if they included divots, it would save certain golfers from having to carry pocket loads of rabbit sh!t to sprinkle around divots when their ball comes to rest in one and they want free relief :D:D

charlieIRL

RoadRunner wrote: »

Hope @charlieIRL doesn't see this!

I thought we agreed never to mention that again!!!! :D

backspin.

There appears to be a whole host of new rules and changes coming in from Jan 2019.

Lots of details here: https://www.rules.golf/

Anyone any opinions on them?

I like the fact you will not need to remove the flag when putting, although i hope it doesn't result in people not bothering removing the flag at all.

They seem to be talking about a new local rule for balls hit out of bounds. You can drop in the vicinity where it went out of bounds rather than having to hit again of the tee.

Rikand

I like most of them.

Don't like dropping at out of bounds. Just plain wrong and you know fine well some golfers will take serious liberties with it. I like that golf is black and white for the most part, but that only adds more grey areas.

Having said that, I don't like grounding your club in a hazard either. Hazard is a hazard, but being able to ground will remove a grey area I suppose

charlieIRL

Rikand wrote: »

I like most of them.

Don't like dropping at out of bounds. Just plain wrong and you know fine well some golfers will take serious liberties with it. I like that golf is black and white for the most part, but that only adds more grey areas.

Having said that, I don't like grounding your club in a hazard either. Hazard is a hazard, but being able to ground will remove a grey area I suppose

Can you imagine the amount of lads who are going to “place the club” behind the ball when setting up.....and flattening down any rough etc so they will get clean contact?
Like you said, a hazard is a hazard. Stay out of them.

charlieIRL

I’ll embed this when I get to my computer

backspin.

I found something on the out of bounds local rule. At 3.55 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rg4FjECZ-8

If you drive your ball out of bounds and you choose to drop in the vicinity where the ball went out of bounds you will then be hitting your 4th shot from that spot.

Rikand

backspin. wrote: »

I found something on the out of bounds local rule. At 3.55 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rg4FjECZ-8

If you drive your ball out of bounds and you choose to drop in the vicinity where the ball went out of bounds you will then be hitting your 4th shot from that spot.

But under the current rules there's no telling how many times you might have hit it out of town.

The rule change means you only have to go OOB once