New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

FixdePitchmark · 22-01-2019 1:27pm

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

Johnny_Fontane · 22-01-2019 1:48pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

I wouldn't say its a big advantage to scoring. Its a very minor advantage, but much more importantly, it speeds up play. If it helps my putting, well, its a win win. Cant see any reason to remove the flag after a couple of rounds with it in.

Seve OB · 22-01-2019 2:16pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

i'm with you

frink · 22-01-2019 2:53pm

I still take out the flag for putts, been playing for too long with the flag out.

Its good that for the longer ones you don't need anyone to attend it

Russman · 22-01-2019 2:57pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

I can totally see your point Fix, but where does one draw the line with "integrity of the score" ? Personally I don't care one way or the other about the flag being in or out. The same argument could be made about any rule change that's ever been made - removing the stymie, dropping in front of yourself instead of over the shoulder etc etc. Every change could, however tenuously, be argued to make the game easier. I think it just comes down to what we've grown up with or are used to. In 20 years time some junior won't even know we used to have to remove the flag. His score will still be his score as per the rules at the time. For example, moving the ball when searching for it, I'm sure somebody doing that now won't be thinking "jeez I should really penalise myself there, after all, it was a penalty a month ago and I feel like I'm gaining unfairly", they'll just be glad its not and move on IMO.

Even the new local rule for OOB, I know and fully understand (and to be honest, mostly agree) why CONGU won't allow it for counting competitions, but I still feel its a bit dramatic in a way. We play by the rules as they stand, not as they used to be or as we think they probably should be. Someone starting out the game and playing by the new local rule (if it was in play) would never know any different or that it used to be stroke and distance. They'd never get to feel the new way is easier. Same, opposite argument could be made about removing the opposite side relief with lateral hazards or penalty areas.

slave1 · 22-01-2019 3:23pm

Perfect example of flag in making sense, two of us on the fringe last weekend, nice putt from player 1 and left it about 6 inches from the hole, no flapping about marking/taking the flag out and leaving it on the green/taking it out and putting one handed, he went straight up and putted it in with flag in the hole, all over and done with in seconds

Seve OB · 22-01-2019 3:29pm

slave1 wrote: »

Perfect example of flag in making sense, two of us on the fringe last weekend, nice putt from player 1 and left it about 6 inches from the hole, no flapping about marking/taking the flag out and leaving it on the green/taking it out and putting one handed, he went straight up and putted it in with flag in the hole, all over and done with in seconds

i've done that. very handy quick and easy

everyone else I've played with so far has gone to the bother of taking it out

spacecoyote · 22-01-2019 3:38pm

Seve OB wrote: »

i've done that. very handy quick and easy

everyone else I've played with so far has gone to the bother of taking it out

Had some people I was playing with doing the opposite, was really frustrating.

Leaving the flag in on long putts, knocking it close, then taking out the flag for the short ones, made no sense to me

Johnny_Fontane · 22-01-2019 4:04pm

Everyone should try play a full round with the flag in. Its kind of exhilarating. I mean, its January, give it a go. Not like its going to affect your handicap.

Kiith · 22-01-2019 4:47pm

I've left it in for my two rounds so far, and i putt pretty well, so i'm assuming it's entirely down to keeping the flag in and will keep doing so :P

Euphoriasean · 22-01-2019 8:38pm

Anyone have a bounce out from the flag in on a putt?

FixdePitchmark · 22-01-2019 9:35pm

Euphoriasean wrote: »

Anyone have a bounce out from the flag in on a putt?

Yes , I've had two of them.

@ Russman - as always your points are well made, practical and difficult to argue against.

But the stats there are significantly different.

Whilst the points you make on all rule changes are valid - the impact is small. The hole in golf is fairly fundamental to our game.

DeChambeau jumping onto it was a red flag. I'm a bit perplexed that they let this rule into the pro game.

I get the intention - it is well intended. But it is fundamentally flawed.

It is like altering a pocket on a snooker table, it is like altering the wire on a dart board.

Again – I know I’m in a total minority – but I’m not entirely sure they understood this one – if they did , they are just flawed. You can’t go and change the golf hole when putting.

A golf hole with a flag in it - is not a hole. – scientifically, mathematically, statistically or logically.

Again – I know I’m out there on this. But find it daft. A mistake.

dan_ep82 · 22-01-2019 9:50pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

A golf hole with a flag in it - is not a hole. – scientifically, mathematically, statistically or logically.

FixdePitchmark · 22-01-2019 9:57pm

Remind me · 22-01-2019 10:22pm

slave1 wrote: »

Perfect example of flag in making sense, two of us on the fringe last weekend, nice putt from player 1 and left it about 6 inches from the hole, no flapping about marking/taking the flag out and leaving it on the green/taking it out and putting one handed, he went straight up and putted it in with flag in the hole, all over and done with in seconds

If the other hand was holding the flag while knocking in a putt that is a penalty as far as I know.

Seve OB · 22-01-2019 10:48pm

Remind me wrote: »

If the other hand was holding the flag while knocking in a putt that is a penalty as far as I know.

No it's not, don't think it ever was.

Remind me · 22-01-2019 11:56pm

Seve OB wrote: »

No it's not, don't think it ever was.

Just looked it up, you are right, player just can’t rest against the flagstick or use it for balance.

Seve OB · 23-01-2019 12:04am

Remind me wrote: »

Just looked it up, you are right, player just can’t rest against the flagstick or use it for balance.

was a common mistake people used to believe was against the rules

GreeBo · 23-01-2019 9:47am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

I guess you dont own a lob wedge and still use hickory & persimmon to hit your gutta-percha?:rolleyes:

Russman · 23-01-2019 3:01pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Yes , I've had two of them.

@ Russman - as always your points are well made, practical and difficult to argue against.

But the stats there are significantly different.

Whilst the points you make on all rule changes are valid - the impact is small. The hole in golf is fairly fundamental to our game.

DeChambeau jumping onto it was a red flag. I'm a bit perplexed that they let this rule into the pro game.

I get the intention - it is well intended. But it is fundamentally flawed.

It is like altering a pocket on a snooker table, it is like altering the wire on a dart board.

Again – I know I’m in a total minority – but I’m not entirely sure they understood this one – if they did , they are just flawed. You can’t go and change the golf hole when putting.

A golf hole with a flag in it - is not a hole. – scientifically, mathematically, statistically or logically.

Again – I know I’m out there on this. But find it daft. A mistake.

Thanks Fix.
As I said I can see where you're coming from. I don't honestly mind either way with the flag and in the 4 or 5 games I've had this year, my group has pretty much carried on as before, I'd say 99% of the time mostly out of habit. I do think this rule change is a solution looking for a problem though tbh. That said, its part of the rules and we're obliged to play by them.

Out of all the countless discussions I've seen/had/read about slow play I can't remember anyone ever suggesting leaving the flag in would help things. Slow play is down to slow players, simples. For sure you get people marking the card while still on the green and doing silly stuff like that, but for the most part its just people taking too long to play.

Russman · 23-01-2019 3:02pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I guess you dont own a lob wedge and still use hickory & persimmon to hit your gutta-percha?:rolleyes:

I have to hold my hand up to the lob wedge thing

:D

slave1 · 23-01-2019 3:05pm

Russman wrote: »

Thanks Fix.
As I said I can see where you're coming from. I don't honestly mind either way with the flag and in the 4 or 5 games I've had this year, my group has pretty much carried on as before, I'd say 99% of the time mostly out of habit. I do think this rule change is a solution looking for a problem though tbh. That said, its part of the rules and we're obliged to play by them.

Out of all the countless discussions I've seen/had/read about slow play I can't remember anyone ever suggesting leaving the flag in would help things. Slow play is down to slow players, simples. For sure you get people marking the card while still on the green and doing silly stuff like that, but for the most part its just people taking too long to play.

I agree with some of your points but I also believe slow play is death by 100 cuts and the flag in can only speed things up

GreeBo · 23-01-2019 3:12pm

slave1 wrote: »

I agree with some of your points but I also believe slow play is death by 100 cuts and the flag in can only speed things up

I'm finding that slow players are now even slower as they fart about getting the flag in and out :mad:

Normal/fast players are faster though

FixdePitchmark · 23-01-2019 5:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

I know I'm an outlier in this view.

I guess you dont own a lob wedge and still use hickory & persimmon to hit your gutta-percha?:rolleyes:

What on earth has that got to do with what we are talking about.

As a man of numbers GreeBo, surprised at that post.

HighLine · 23-01-2019 5:56pm

Not sure if the argument about whether the new flag rule should be in place is worth while.. the rule is here, it's not going to change anytime soon.

In my own club, unfortunately most people are still pulling out the flag for medium to short range putts. Time will change that hopefully as people will learn it is to their advantage in most cases to putt with the pin in.

GreeBo · 24-01-2019 10:32am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What on earth has that got to do with what we are talking about.

As a man of numbers GreeBo, surprised at that post.

I thought it was pretty obvious, but let me break it down for you.

FixdePitchmark wrote:

I find it a big advantage and for that reason don't like new rule.

I don't like any interference with the integrity of the score or maths of the game.

So you don't find a lob wedge or your 460cc, graphite shafted driver to be an advantage over persimmon headed or hickory shafted clubs?

How about the ball you use? You dont think a Prov1 is a big advantage over a gutta-percha?

tbh it just kinda seems like you are trying to make some big "oh I'm a classical golfer" point but missing the irony.

FixdePitchmark · 24-01-2019 11:16am

@ GreeBo

The rules of the game are the rules - it would be daft to say your not going to play by them , that is just illogical.

But on a golf forum you can talk about the rule changes / ones you like / don't like.

I'm fairly sure you are looking at certain rules and not overly impressed or have a few other ideas. Is there any you like ? or don't like ?

Equipment modernization and the flag enabling a change in putting statistic are two different topics.

Both very valid.

But the rules are the rules - you'd be an idiot to not take the advantage this offers. But it changes putting, no real debate. The impact on scores is another days work.

spacecoyote · 24-01-2019 12:47pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

@ GreeBo

The rules of the game are the rules - it would be daft to say your not going to play by them , that is just illogical.

But on a golf forum you can talk about the rule changes / ones you like / don't like.

I'm fairly sure you are looking at certain rules and not overly impressed or have a few other ideas. Is there any you like ? or don't like ?

Equipment modernization and the flag enabling a change in putting statistic are two different topics.

Both very valid.

But the rules are the rules - you'd be an idiot to not take the advantage this offers. But it changes putting, no real debate. The impact on scores is another days work.

Have to say I lean with you on this one Fix. I get where Greebo is coming from, but I do think its arguing 2 different points.

One is an Equipment change (which has no bearing on rules), the other is a rules change.

Yes, both ultimately are providing the same end result...an improvement in performance, but that wasn't the intention of both.

The equipment was updated to make the game easier (consciously so)

My understanding (and I'm open to correction) is that the rule was updated to make the game faster (and indirectly appears to have made the game easier as a result)

In terms of rules I'm not liking, the drop one is definitely the worst. It should read drop must take place from at least knee height.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-01-2019 12:53pm

Question folks, with the new rule of dropping from the knee, what is the punishment for someone dropping from shoulder height?

GreeBo · 24-01-2019 1:00pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

@ GreeBo

The rules of the game are the rules - it would be daft to say your not going to play by them , that is just illogical.

But on a golf forum you can talk about the rule changes / ones you like / don like.

I'm fairly sure you are looking at certain rules and not overly impressed or have a few other ideas. Is there any you like ? or don't like ?

Equipment modernization and the flag enabling a change in putting statistic are two different topics.

Both very valid.

But the rules are the rules - you'd be an idiot to not take the advantage this offers. But it changes putting, no real debate. The impact on scores is another days work.

There are very explicit rules on equipment that only exist to control and limit advantages in the game. Rules are rules. Why do you think the rule change on the flag is different on the rule change on COR for example?

You have somehow decided that "flag in" is crossing some imaginary line yet 460cc drivers are A ok and you are being all high and mighty about it as if you are some guardian of the essence of golf.

New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

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