New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

He mentioned one player who plays off a high 20. Has been given a much higher HI. He said a recent Stableford would have scored 60 points off this HI ;-)

But you need to look at the underlying data to see if it's correct, if anything is missing or added in error. Most of the errors we've seen seem to relate to missing away scores. None so far that would make a significant change to HI.

PabloAndRoy

prawnsambo wrote: »

But you need to look at the underlying data to see if it's correct, if anything is missing or added in error. Most of the errors we've seen seem to relate to missing away scores. None so far that would make a significant change to HI.

Yeah, I don't have access to that.

I would expect all H/C Secs will be busy on the phone next week..

DoubleD

Apologies if answered already, couldn't find it:

How does a new member go about getting a handicap under the new system? Do they still need to submit 3 cards signed by a club member or has that process changed under this system?

PabloAndRoy

DoubleD wrote: »

Apologies if answered already, couldn't find it:

How does a new member go about getting a handicap under the new system? Do they still need to submit 3 cards signed by a club member or has that process changed under this system?

Yes, it's the same. Although I think it is a combination of 9 holes or 18 holes to a total of 54 holes.

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Yes, it's the same. Although I think it is a combination of 9 holes or 18 holes to a total of 54 holes.

You could do nine hole scores under CONGU too.

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Yeah, I don't have access to that.

I would expect all H/C Secs will be busy on the phone next week..

I'd say busy this week mostly

That's why they have advance access to the data. Any big data import like this is going to throw up a lot of errors. Committees would be mad to rely on members to check this stuff. Some will, but the majority will just shrug and ignore it.

I know the data provided to our Club was pretty bad from Golf Ireland. Competitions missing, wrong tees, No comps since start of October to name but a few things which have let to a lot of inaccurate data.

I think they are pretty lucky there will be no Club competitions for the next while to give Clubs a chance to get all of their issues resolved.

Seems like they have thrown a pile of rubbish at the Clubs for them to decipher and come back to them on. Not very professional.

prawnsambo

Exactly wrote: »

I know the data provided to our Club was pretty bad from Golf Ireland. Competitions missing, wrong tees, No comps since start of October to name but a few things which have let to a lot of inaccurate data.

I think they are pretty lucky there will be no Club competitions for the next while to give Clubs a chance to get all of their issues resolved.

Seems like they have thrown a pile of rubbish at the Clubs for them to decipher and come back to them on. Not very professional.

Just a couple of points. The data isn't complete because at some point they have to stop import and open it up to the clubs. The last few competitions will be added easily. From what I hear, your experience seems to be an outlier. Mostly data is spot on, with a few errors (away competitions being the most common).

jimjim12

Exactly wrote: »

I know the data provided to our Club was pretty bad from Golf Ireland. Competitions missing, wrong tees, No comps since start of October to name but a few things which have let to a lot of inaccurate data.

I think they are pretty lucky there will be no Club competitions for the next while to give Clubs a chance to get all of their issues resolved.

Seems like they have thrown a pile of rubbish at the Clubs for them to decipher and come back to them on. Not very professional.

Similar issues reported in the UK. Lot of reports of wrong tees. https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/...lations-209628

chalky_ie

I've tried looking for this online, and I've obviously seen and used the calculator posted in this thread, but is the actual formula for calculating the WHS handicap available to view anywhere? I mean literally what calculations you apply to the 8 scores that give you your final number, all I can see is the formula to calculate course handicap for a specific course, not how to actually determine your handicap index. It would be nice to be able to validate whatever your club tells you.

Seve OB

Irishdaywalker wrote: »

In relation to the new handicap index for the members, ESR's or general play adjustments are not factored so they all need to be amended as well.

No they don't as they do not form part of he WHS.

newport2

conor-w wrote: »

I've tried looking for this online, and I've obviously seen and used the calculator posted in this thread, but is the actual formula for calculating the WHS handicap available to view anywhere? I mean literally what calculations you apply to the 8 scores that give you your final number, all I can see is the formula to calculate course handicap for a specific course, not how to actually determine your handicap index. It would be nice to be able to validate whatever your club tells you.

Score Differential Calculation = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adj. Gross Score – Course Rating)

Work that out for your top 8 and it's the average of them

chalky_ie

newport2 wrote: »

Score Differential Calculation = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adj. Gross Score – Course Rating)

Work that out for your top 8 and it's the average of them

Nice one, is adjusted gross score basically your gross score with anything higher than a net double adjusted to net double?

newport2

conor-w wrote: »

Nice one, is adjusted gross score basically your gross score with anything higher than a net double adjusted to net double?

Yes

slingerz

I think there’s so much confusion and vagueness about this whole thing that simply waiting for this new portal and access to see what is there for you is the best bet.

Whether this is available next Monday or not remains to be seen

blue note

Here's a question.

I'm looking at the different course ratings from the different tees in Tramore. From the green tees, it's a par 72, course rating 70.5, slope rating 132. From the red tees it's a par 75, course rating 73.8, slope rating 132. The red tees are in front of the greens on every hole.

So I thought you no longer have ladies tees, but rather the course is rated in terms of difficulty from each tee for the scratch golfer and bogey golf. And my understanding of those figures is that the scratch golfer should go around in 70.5 shots from the green tees and 73.8 shots from the red tees. This obviously doesn't make sense.

Am I misunderstanding it? Or have they split ladies and mens tees and marked them differently?

PabloAndRoy

newport2 wrote: »

Score Differential Calculation = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adj. Gross Score – Course Rating)

Work that out for your top 8 and it's the average of them

It's the top 8 Score Differentials from the last 20 Score Differentials rather than pick your top 8 scores and get the average Score Differential.

It's a subtle difference but if you play on lots of different courses with varying slopes and course ratings it can be quite a difference.

padmcv

blue note wrote: »

Or have they split ladies and mens tees and marked them differently?

Yes, there are different ratings for men & ladies. Some tees may only be rated for one gender

chalky_ie

blue note wrote: »

Here's a question.

I'm looking at the different course ratings from the different tees in Tramore. From the green tees, it's a par 72, course rating 70.5, slope rating 132. From the red tees it's a par 75, course rating 73.8, slope rating 132. The red tees are in front of the greens on every hole.

So I thought you no longer have ladies tees, but rather the course is rated in terms of difficulty from each tee for the scratch golfer and bogey golf. And my understanding of those figures is that the scratch golfer should go around in 70.5 shots from the green tees and 73.8 shots from the red tees. This obviously doesn't make sense.

Am I misunderstanding it? Or have they split ladies and mens tees and marked them differently?

When I look up my home course on the R&A site, they have split the red tees into men's red, and women's red, even though obviously they have been exclusively women's tees up to this point. The par etc. are different for the 2.

willabur

it has probably been covered already but how is ESR taken into account in the new system?
Its an reduction to handicap that doesn't involve a round of golf

prawnsambo

blue note wrote: »

Here's a question.

I'm looking at the different course ratings from the different tees in Tramore. From the green tees, it's a par 72, course rating 70.5, slope rating 132. From the red tees it's a par 75, course rating 73.8, slope rating 132. The red tees are in front of the greens on every hole.

So I thought you no longer have ladies tees, but rather the course is rated in terms of difficulty from each tee for the scratch golfer and bogey golf. And my understanding of those figures is that the scratch golfer should go around in 70.5 shots from the green tees and 73.8 shots from the red tees. This obviously doesn't make sense.

Am I misunderstanding it? Or have they split ladies and mens tees and marked them differently?

You'll see in the database an F or an M beside the ratings. I'll leave you to figure out what those letters stand for.

Interesting factoid. We asked Golf Ireland if we could have our yellow tees rated for women as well. They were happy to oblige and had a visit arranged until the county lockdown arrived. So we'll have to wait. But I'm posting this because a lot of people don't know you can do this.

newport2

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

It's the top 8 Score Differentials from the last 20 Score Differentials rather than pick your top 8 scores and get the average Score Differential.

It's a subtle difference but if you play on lots of different courses with varying slopes and course ratings it can be quite a difference.

What i meant by your top 8 score differentials was your 8 lowest differentials

prawnsambo

willabur wrote: »

it has probably been covered already but how is ESR taken into account in the new system?
Its an reduction to handicap that doesn't involve a round of golf

Literally nine posts above yours. :rolleyes:

willabur

prawnsambo wrote: »

Literally nine posts above yours. :rolleyes:

Thanks!!

82 pages - not going to scroll through it all

prawnsambo

willabur wrote: »

Thanks!!

82 pages - not going to scroll through it all

It's only 31 if you set the post per page count to 40 in your preferences. :pac:

Golfgraffix

Got ours today, out of 410 members there were very few anomalies. Maybe about 20 members we need to address.

What I did notice is that for members where scores went back a few years due to low round numbers they didn’t factor in any of the annual review adjustments or general play adjustments.

J

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Got ours today, out of 410 members there were very few anomalies. Maybe about 20 members we need to address.

What I did notice is that for members where scores went back a few years due to low round numbers they didn’t factor in any of the annual review adjustments or general play adjustments.

J

Well that's by design I suppose.

We're finding members with a good few away scores with some of those away scores missing. The odd one or two home scores missing too, but the away ones are definitely a thing. A quick count of 2020 scores and comparison with what's on record usually shows these up. Internally, the system seems to work very well, but (as with all big data imports) there's always a few anomalies.

Brewster

Hi folks, I was made aware of my index from club. I was playing off 15.0. I was given 12.8. I have 14 scores in the system since September 2019, hence I believe they average my best four rounds. My best score differentials this year were 12, 14, 16 and 17. This would give me 14.75, and was pretty much were I expected to be. Am I doing something wrong?

Mantis Toboggan

Brewster wrote: »

Hi folks, I was made aware of my index from club. I was playing off 15.0. I was given 12.8. I have 14 scores in the system since September 2019, hence I believe they average my best four rounds. My best score differentials this year were 12, 14, 16 and 17. This would give me 14.75, and was pretty much were I expected to be. Am I doing something wrong?

Handicap index isn't your playing handicap for the course, you need to calculate what your playing handicap will be.

Brewster

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Handicap index isn't your playing handicap for the course, you need to calculate what your playing handicap will be.

I didn’t think that was relevant to calculating initial index. My playing handicap will be higher, but not sure this is the issue. Every golfer in the club will be playing off a higher playing handicap. I believe index should be an average of my four best scores.