New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo

Brewster wrote: »

I didn’t think that was relevant to calculating initial index. My playing handicap will be higher, but not sure this is the issue. Every golfer in the club will be playing off a higher playing handicap. I believe index should be an average of my four best scores.

Until you get to 15 rounds and it's the average of your best 5. Why did they give you 12.8 if your index works out at 14.75?

Brewster

prawnsambo wrote: »

Until you get to 15 rounds and it's the average of your best 5. Why did they give you 12.8 if your index works out at 14.75?

Well this is exactly what I’m trying to understand. Has a mistake been made? I believe I should be 14.8 based on four best rounds. All my other rounds are much higher. I had an 84 and 86 gross this summer and got cut from 17 to 15, and was delighted with it. But struggling to understand where 12.8 has come from? I just wanted to get some opinion on here before engaging handicap sec.

newport2

Brewster wrote: »

Hi folks, I was made aware of my index from club. I was playing off 15.0. I was given 12.8. I have 14 scores in the system since September 2019, hence I believe they average my best four rounds. My best score differentials this year were 12, 14, 16 and 17. This would give me 14.75, and was pretty much were I expected to be. Am I doing something wrong?

As your differentials are whole numbers and not decimals, I'm guessing you mean what you were in relation to par. Use the below to calculate your differential for each round:


Score Differential Calculation = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adj. Gross Score – Course Rating)

prawnsambo

Brewster wrote: »

Well this is exactly what I’m trying to understand. Has a mistake been made? I believe I should be 14.8 based on four best rounds. All my other rounds are much higher. I had an 84 and 86 gross this summer and got cut from 17 to 15, and was delighted with it. But struggling to understand where 12.8 has come from? I just wanted to get some opinion on here before engaging handicap sec.

Assuming you've calculated your SDs correctly. (It's AGS-CR*113/SR) then you should be on a HI of 14.75. But best check them to make sure.

Brewster

newport2 wrote: »

As your differentials are whole numbers and not decimals, I'm guessing you mean what you were in relation to par. Use the below to calculate your differential for each round:


Score Differential Calculation = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adj. Gross Score – Course Rating)

Yes, gross differentials based on par..so perhaps I have calculated it wrong?

newport2

Brewster wrote: »

Yes, gross differentials based on par..so perhaps I have calculated it wrong?

Yes, use the formula I posted above

prawnsambo

Brewster wrote: »

Yes, gross differentials based on par..so perhaps I have calculated it wrong?

Sounds like it. Say you have 30 points Stableford. Your CR is 71.7 and SR is 126 (par 72). So 30 points is six over plus your handicap plus par giving 6 + 15 + 72 = 93. Your SD for that round is 93 -71.7 * 113/126 = 21.3 * 0.836 = 19.1.

For strokeplay competitions it's a bit different as you have to check whether you've exceeded nett double bogey on any hole and reduce the hole score to nett double bogey for every hole that this is true for.

Brewster

prawnsambo wrote: »

Sounds like it. Say you have 30 points Stableford. Your CR is 71.7 and SR is 126 (par 72). So 30 points is six over plus your handicap plus par giving 6 + 15 + 72 = 93. Your SD for that round is 93 -71.7 * 113/126 = 21.3 * 0.836 = 19.1.

For strokeplay competitions it's a bit different as you have to check whether you've exceeded nett double bogey on any hole and reduce the hole score to nett double bogey for every hole that this is true for.

Hi all, yes, I was wrong. I didn’t use formula. One differential is 10.11, other 12.8 and a couple in 13. So it’s correct, 12.8 I am!! I guess it could change quickly when I get all my scores in. I’ve a few horrendous scores in system at moment. But I’ve gone from 17 in July to this. Good result I guess

Golfgraffix

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well that's by design I suppose.

We're finding members with a good few away scores with some of those away scores missing. The odd one or two home scores missing too, but the away ones are definitely a thing. A quick count of 2020 scores and comparison with what's on record usually shows these up. Internally, the system seems to work very well, but (as with all big data imports) there's always a few anomalies.

We use Handicapmaster, I found that if you publish to Golfnet but go back to start of 2019 rather than the default of Jan this year it seems to pull in the missing away scores and post them.

The fix for unposted home scores is a little more cumbersome, if you add a handicap not to a player and then delete it, the next time you publish it will fix the mising scores.

Was told today that they will be doing another run at the Handicap Index this week.

J

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

We use Handicapmaster, I found that if you publish to Golfnet but go back to start of 2019 rather than the default of Jan this year it seems to pull in the missing away scores and post them.

The fix for unposted home scores is a little more cumbersome, if you add a handicap not to a player and then delete it, the next time you publish it will fix the mising scores.

Was told today that they will be doing another run at the Handicap Index this week.

J

We use it too. I'm pretty sure we post from the start of 2019, but will check. Thanks for the tip. With the handicap notes, do you have to publish between adding it and removing it or just after removing it?

I take from what you're saying that dotgolf is still pulling from GolfNet?

CalamariFritti

blue note wrote: »

Here's a question.

I'm looking at the different course ratings from the different tees in Tramore. From the green tees, it's a par 72, course rating 70.5, slope rating 132. From the red tees it's a par 75, course rating 73.8, slope rating 132. The red tees are in front of the greens on every hole.

So I thought you no longer have ladies tees, but rather the course is rated in terms of difficulty from each tee for the scratch golfer and bogey golf. And my understanding of those figures is that the scratch golfer should go around in 70.5 shots from the green tees and 73.8 shots from the red tees. This obviously doesn't make sense.

Am I misunderstanding it? Or have they split ladies and mens tees and marked them differently?

Mens and Ladies are still separate in the new system. The ladies even have a different slope factor.

Also Tramore is a par 75 for the ladies. 3 more pars 5s. It just wouldnt work I guess.

Golfgraffix

prawnsambo wrote: »

I take from what you're saying that dotgolf is still pulling from GolfNet?

I guess so, I’ll find out for sure tomorrow

prawnsambo wrote: »

We use it too. I'm pretty sure we post from the start of 2019, but will check. Thanks for the tip. With the handicap notes, do you have to publish between adding it and removing it or just after removing it?

I don’t think you have to publish, I think editing the record forces handicapmaster to push it through.

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I guess so, I’ll find out for sure tomorrow

I don’t think you have to publish, I think editing the record forces handicapmaster to push it through.

Thanks again. I looked at ours and there are two areas where you can change the date. The default was for records to be updated only if they had changed since the last update, the GolfNet start date was already set to January 2019, so I changed the 'last update' setting to January 2020 and it seems (haven't checked thoroughly) that this did the trick. It took a while to run, so I'm hopeful it sorted the issue.

For others here, this might sound a bit technical, but it seems that a lot of the missing data is down to the interface between your club's software and GolfNet. The WHS system is reliant on the data that's logged to GolfNet when your club runs an update (usually after a competition). That data seems to be incomplete in certain cases, so clubs should do something like what we did and run an update that forces the system to go back in time - your mileage as to how far to go back may vary. No idea how this has happened, but could be anything from a bad connection, a competition that was closed, re-opened and closed again without updating GolfNet after one or more of those changes or some other issue.

prawnsambo

I'm starting to see PCCs coming into the calculations. Looks like it's CSS-SSS.

fred funk }{

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm starting to see PCCs coming into the calculations. Looks like it's CSS-SSS.

Think it was always to be included. Makes no sense to not include it as strictly using Par as a metric is wrong.

PabloAndRoy

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm starting to see PCCs coming into the calculations. Looks like it's CSS-SSS.

Added to my spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-64dPotwKyAtP2wTAqGrgPU88TuPQbQVqTb1iya2TTI/edit?usp=sharing

PabloAndRoy

If I understand correctly HI is rounded to one decimal .. correct?

So if calculated HI is 14.45 ... thats rounded to 14.5?

If yes, then when asked what my handicap is .. whats the answer? .. 14 or 15? or 14.5?

Seve OB

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

If I understand correctly HI is rounded to one decimal .. correct?

So if calculated HI is 14.45 ... thats rounded to 14.5?

If yes, then when asked what my handicap is .. whats the answer? .. 14 or 15? or 14.5?

i suppose same as now, might depend on who you are talking to. a lay man asking you might just give the round number, someone who knows what they are talking about, you would tell them you are 9.5 and they would appreciate that you are nearly a single digit golfer

prawnsambo

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Think it was always to be included. Makes no sense to not include it as strictly using Par as a metric is wrong.

I believed so too. So was surprised to not see it in the initial viewings. But it seems to be filtering in. I imagine this is a very painful and slow exercise.

paulos53

The GUI have released an update regarding the 2021 interclub competitions.

If I am reading it correctly then the handicap index on January 1st, 2021 will be handicap used instead of the lowest of the previous year

Seve OB

i wonder will they be changing the handicap ranges. probably not, but might have to look again next year

paulos53

The handicap ranges might change. They plan to analyse the handicap data once WHS is active and then decide if any changes are required

Golfgraffix

Another round of calculations is being done on Monday

rickis tache

paulos53 wrote: »

The GUI have released an update regarding the 2021 interclub competitions.

If I am reading it correctly then the handicap index on January 1st, 2021 will be handicap used instead of the lowest of the previous year

Must get 20 rounds in between the reopening and then covid and Christmas be damned

slingerz

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Another round of calculations is being done on Monday

Are we still due to see our HI by Monday or is that club specific?

Also, is there any date for the launch of the aforementioned Golf Ireland app?

slingerz

slingerz wrote: »

Are we still due to see our HI by Monday or is that club specific?

Also, is there any date for the launch of the aforementioned Golf Ireland app?

GUI on Twitter saying new site will be live on Monday afternoon with the handicap details and the app will be released in 2021. Website will be mobile responsive

AnBeagalltach

Hi to clarify (using the slope index thread as an example)

If you’re a member in the Heritage( top slope as per thread) and for arguments sake let’s say you have shot +10 twenty times in a row . From a very crude calculation this means your handicap index may be somewhere around 8 as these scores are in an above difficult course, Even though your playing handicap will be 10.

If you play on a course with a low slope (Corballis), this 8 handicapper may have to play off 6or7? On Monday it is the index of 8 that the member will receive even though he had never played to this handicap but it will be adjusted back to 10 when he plays in home course?Have kept numbers vague and non specific as I’m trying to get my head around concept thanks!

Seve OB

slingerz wrote: »

GUI on Twitter saying new site will be live on Monday afternoon with the handicap details and the app will be released in 2021. Website will be mobile responsive

well i think we all knew we were never really going to see anything before the 2nd

Poker Face

AnBeagalltach wrote: »

Hi to clarify (using the slope index thread as an example)

If you’re a member in the Heritage( top slope as per thread) and for arguments sake let’s say you have shot +10 twenty times in a row . From a very crude calculation this means your handicap index may be somewhere around 8 as these scores are in an above difficult course, Even though your playing handicap will be 10.

If you play on a course with a low slope (Corballis), this 8 handicapper may have to play off 6or7? On Monday it is the index of 8 that the member will receive even though he had never played to this handicap but it will be adjusted back to 10 when he plays in home course?Have kept numbers vague and non specific as I’m trying to get my head around concept thanks!

Yeah thats how it will basically work

slingerz

Seve OB wrote: »

well i think we all knew we were never really going to see anything before the 2nd

The line that they hoped people would visibility of their handicap indexes before then was optimistic to say the least