New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo

newport2 wrote: »

OK, major brain f$%t there

I must be wishing my lockdown away!

That's why I did actually laugh. Because for a moment there (and probably for the same reason) I was in November.

Shanee.

Stupid question sorry if it has been asked, but do the competitions have to be qualifying or do non qualifying competitions count towards this new handicap system?

gary29428

Shanee. wrote: »

Stupid question sorry if it has been asked, but do the competitions have to be qualifying or do non qualifying competitions count towards this new handicap system?

As far as I am aware qualifying, but was wondering about RSA & RSH scores. You can get cut for these comps so I taught they would be included...

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

All your questions (I think ) are answered in this PDF. On the Master Scoreboard/HowDidIDo question, the primary source of handicap information will now be the Golf Ireland portal. It will also (I think) be in the relevant software, but they're still being developed afaik, so can't confirm that they have it implemented.

Yes I believed that the primary source for your handicap would shift from golfnet to golf Ireland.
But you said it yourself, it is still being developed.......... so they aren’t ready.

prawnsambo

gary29428 wrote: »

As far as I am aware qualifying, but was wondering about RSA & RSH scores. You can get cut for these comps so I taught they would be included...

RSA and RSH competitions are qualifying. The only reason they are reduction only is because CSS is too low. They will be included in your record, non-qualifying comps won't. Non-qualifying by definition involves the suspension of some of the rules of golf.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes I believed that the primary source for your handicap would shift from golfnet to golf Ireland.
But you said it yourself, it is still being developed.......... so they aren’t ready.

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

With respect, as a golfer I don’t care who is responsible for completing tasks. Ultimately the GUI is responsible to make sure that us as members and players are well informed, that they answer our questions, that they have everything ready. If someone is not pulling their weight, they are the ones who need to sort it out.

As it is, we are looking like switching off one system on the night of Nov 1st and waking up to a brand new system. Any business worth their salt would never do that, both systems should be live for a trial period.

Golfer365

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

Can you send the url to create an account for Golf Ireland Clubhouse. The link I got only gets me to a login page.

prawnsambo

Golfer365 wrote: »

Can you send the url to create an account for Golf Ireland Clubhouse. The link I got only gets me to a login page.

They're all specific to each club afaik. If you're getting a login page, you're either using the base url without the keys or somebody from the club has already set up the account.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

With respect, as a golfer I don’t care who is responsible for completing tasks. Ultimately the GUI is responsible to make sure that us as members and players are well informed, that they answer our questions, that they have everything ready. If someone is not pulling their weight, they are the ones who need to sort it out.

As it is, we are looking like switching off one system on the night of Nov 1st and waking up to a brand new system. Any business worth their salt would never do that, both systems should be live for a trial period.

You do realise that Handicap Master and other software vendors are suppliers to unions outside Ireland as well? And this isn't like changing accounting systems, the entire basis for calculation is changing. Keeping the old system in parallel would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard. We're done with CONGU on 2nd November, there will be no going back.

GreeBo

HandicapMaster wrote:

Full release will be combined with the introduction of World Handicap System in the UK and Ireland, currently scheduled for 2nd November 2020.

Still waiting for these guys.

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

Still waiting for these guys.

You can download the preview here: https://www.handicapmaster.org/preview/index.php


If you use the cloud version(s), you obviously won't be able to import your database (I really don't like that you can't do this), so will have to work with made up data.

slingerz

Is golfnet and golf Ireland not going to be the same thing

prawnsambo

slingerz wrote: »

Is golfnet and golf Ireland not going to be the same thing

No. GolfNet will be retired I presume. GUI and ILGU merge next year into Golf Ireland, so eveything will presumably move over.

dan_ep82

I wonder if there will be a trend up or down when they are released.

Looking at a few responses on twitter in england it seems most low guys have went down.

Mantis Toboggan

When are the new handicaps being released released on golf Ireland?

prawnsambo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

When are the new handicaps being released released on golf Ireland?

This week to the clubs, next week to the members.



Here's a sample of what you might see in your handicap record.

prawnsambo

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I winder if there will be a trend up or down when they are released.

Looking at a few responses on twitter in england it seems most low guys have went down.

I don't think you can expect a trend like that really. Each individual's scores will be reflective of their form and their index will be up or down depending on that. Since (based on that sample above) no PCC is being included, rounds with a high CSS will not be adjusted and cuts that may have happened because of that will not now be reflected. As an example, I had a one shot cut earlier this year because CSS on the day was 32 points and I had 35 points. So that will probably be one of my best rounds, yet will have an AGS of one over par. Conversely if the CSS was low, a buffer might now turn into an increase in your index.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

This week to the clubs, next week to the members.



Here's a sample of what you might see in your handicap record.

Prawn this is exactly what I mean by the GUI not being ready. This is exactly like us reading in the bloody daily mirror that golf got the chop. It should not be you giving us example like this (which is great by the way thanks) but it should have been all done by the GUI well before now.

newport2

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think you can expect a trend like that really. Each individual's scores will be reflective of their form and their index will be up or down depending on that. Since (based on that sample above) no PCC is being included, rounds with a high CSS will not be adjusted and cuts that may have happened because of that will not now be reflected. As an example, I had a one shot cut earlier this year because CSS on the day was 32 points and I had 35 points. So that will probably be one of my best rounds, yet will have an AGS of one over par. Conversely if the CSS was low, a buffer might now turn into an increase in your index.

Thanks for the sample. Is it yours or just a sample? Just want to be certain the CSS is not going to be included in the initial calculation, it was supposed to be

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Prawn this is exactly what I mean by the GUI not being ready. This is exactly like us reading in the bloody daily mirror that golf got the chop. It should not be you giving us example like this (which is great by the way thanks) but it should have been all done by the GUI well before now.

Thanks for the thanks

I'm a bit mystified though. That sample is pretty much what we've been fed from day one. Like there's loads of videos and other informational material out there that give exactly the same data. Not in the same format, but all the numbers are there to help you understand how it works. We've had the same stuff on thread here going back to the beginning of this year iirc. The only difference (that I can see) is in presentation.

PS I agree about the comms on the lockdown. Absolutely predictable that they'd leave it to the last minute when it was bad news.

prawnsambo

newport2 wrote: »

Thanks for the sample. Is it yours or just a sample? Just want to be certain the CSS is not going to be included in the initial calculation, it was supposed to be

It's an actual screengrab I picked up somewhere. Not sure CSS was supposed to be included, I know it was suggested here as an option, but I haven't seen anything official.

newport2

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's an actual screengrab I picked up somewhere. Not sure CSS was supposed to be included, I know it was suggested here as an option, but I haven't seen anything official.

It says here that CSS will be included. Can't see anything in official material gui made available though

https://www.mapperleygolfclub.org/whs-transition-handicaps

prawnsambo

newport2 wrote: »

It says here that CSS will be included. Can't see anything in official material gui made available though

https://www.mapperleygolfclub.org/whs-transition-handicaps

Yeah, that's a very old (relatively) interpretation. Was one of the best resources at the time. But there were a few assumptions made that weren't borne out.

Russman

Not sure if this has been asked or brought up before, but I was just looking at the series of videos linked by HowDidiDo, explaining the WHS, its done by Golf England and it’s their head of handicapping and course ratings. Maybe I misunderstood but she mentioned that to get the new handicaps, they went back as far as January 2018 and converted all scores to give the new adjusted ones and also, to me anyway, seemed to imply that the low handicap and cap on increases would also be applied from then. Does that mean that they effectively re-ran everyone’s handicaps through 2018, 2019 & 2020 under the WHS to come up with our indices rather than just going back through our current last 20 scores ?
Not sure I’ve explained that fully, but I almost took it to mean that there was even less chance of big jumps because your underlying ability is captured through 3 years of scores.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

Not sure if this has been asked or brought up before, but I was just looking at the series of videos linked by HowDidiDo, explaining the WHS, its done by Golf England and it’s their head of handicapping and course ratings. Maybe I misunderstood but she mentioned that to get the new handicaps, they went back as far as January 2018 and converted all scores to give the new adjusted ones and also, to me anyway, seemed to imply that the low handicap and cap on increases would also be applied from then. Does that mean that they effectively re-ran everyone’s handicaps through 2018, 2019 & 2020 under the WHS to come up with our indices rather than just going back through our current last 20 scores ?
Not sure I’ve explained that fully, but I almost took it to mean that there was even less chance of big jumps because your underlying ability is captured through 3 years of scores.

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

finglashoop

prawnsambo wrote: »

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

I wonder that will give a historic look to the changes in handicap over that period as well when it goes live so people can see them

prawnsambo

finglashoop wrote: »

I wonder that will give a historic look to the changes in handicap over that period as well when it goes live so people can see them

It will. Although it will start as if you first got a handicap in early 2018, so won't really be accurate until 20 qualifying rounds after that.

finglashoop

prawnsambo wrote: »

It will. Although it will start as if you first got a handicap in early 2018, so won't really be accurate until 20 qualifying rounds after that.

Will be good to see how it works looking back i suppose

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

Thanks for that. That’s what I originally thought too. I must re look at that video and pay more attention to what she said exactly !