Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

JohnnyFlash

Has Billy ‘Baked Beans’ fled the country yet? Heard his cousin was part of the MGM camp so that probably complicates matters.

hatrickpatrick

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Has Billy ‘Baked Beans’ fled the country yet? Heard his cousin was part of the MGM camp so that probably complicates matters.

This seems like as good a moment as any to point out that the nicknames we give these people are feckin' hilarious

Like can you imagine if history remembered Al Capone as Al "Bottle Cap" Capone, or Bugs Moran as Bugs "Bunny" Moran?

EDIT: it's particularly funny when the media do it without a flinch, like a serious, formal RTE reporter referencing "the trial of Fat Freddie Thompson" without even cracking a smile

begbysback

tomofson wrote: »

If he wasn't the driver he could argue that he didn't know the gun was in the car and was only getting a lift.

I seen in one of the papers the suspected target posted a box of bullets saying it was the cure for all kinahan lovers.

This individual may also be behind a certain twitter account.

John smith tweets stopped for a while, then returned to say someone had a pop - seems they know who he is.

SEPT 23 1989

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This seems like as good a moment as any to point out that the nicknames we give these people are feckin' hilarious

Like can you imagine if history remembered Al Capone as Al "Bottle Cap" Capone, or Bugs Moran as Bugs "Bunny" Moran?

EDIT: it's particularly funny when the media do it without a flinch, like a serious, formal RTE reporter referencing "the trial of Fat Freddie Thompson" without even cracking a smile

Paul ‘Wobbly Boots’ Meehan is my favourite:D

hatrickpatrick

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Paul ‘Wobbly Boots’ Meehan is my favourite:D

At least he isn't "Wobbly Bits" :pac:

OOnegative

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Paul ‘Wobbly Boots’ Meehan is my favourite:D

Not a patch on Mark “Donkey” McCabe.

ohnonotgmail

Devoyiedd wrote: »

How come, whenever the Kinahan gang carry out a hit, 9 times out of ten they get the chap, but when the Hutch gang carry out a hit, they always miss the intended target, i.e Regency, Balbutcher, Bray boxing club, Michael Keogh etc etc. As a result, they are getting massacred while the Kinahans are laughing.

Is it incompetence or what?

Money. Money buys competence.

ohnonotgmail

Devoyiedd wrote: »

That's hardly the only reason?

Only reason? Of course not. But it has to be a big one. If you can afford to buy a better class of hitman you are clearly going to be more successful. It also buys you better information on where your targets are.

ohnonotgmail

Devoyiedd wrote: »

Both gangs are as loaded as the other, so getting top hitmen shouldn't be an issue surely?

Do you think so? I thought the kinehans was a much bigger organisation.

Gadgetman496

Devoyiedd wrote: »

How come, whenever the Kinahan gang carry out a hit, 9 times out of ten they get the chap, but when the Hutch gang carry out a hit, they always miss the intended target, i.e Regency, Balbutcher, Bray boxing club, Michael Keogh etc etc. As a result, they are getting massacred while the Kinahans are laughing.

Is it incompetence or what?

I wonder if Gemma O'Doherty might think the law favours one side over the other for some reason?

hatrickpatrick

Regarding accuracy, the problem for the Hutches is that the Regency was a clusterf*ck. If it had gone their way, I think we'd have seen a very different "feud" to the one we have seen, but they failed to get either Daniel Kinahan or Liam Byrne, who by all accounts were the actual targets.

They had one shot against these guys and they blew it. It's quite obvious that they weren't prepared for a long drawn out scenario in the event of their targets surviving the initial hit - for example, and I really mean no disrespect to the dead here, but what the f*ck was Eddie Hutch Snr doing sleeping at home two days after a botched hit on the top tier of the other crowd? He was a sitting duck. They all should have been ready to go into hiding, and that means that The Monk should have had his not-involved family members well informed of what was about to go down so as to give them time to get the hell out of the city.

That's my take anyway. The Kinahan crew fled the country after David Byrne's funeral and from all accounts haven't been back. In contrast, almost all of the victims on the Hutch side have been hit at or very close to the estates in which they've always lived. Even if I was a totally innocent man with no involvement in gangland crime, if I had a brother, cousin, uncle or whatever who was involved, I'd have got the f*ck out of Dublin ASAP literally the day after news broke of the botched Regency raid.

I'm honestly unsure as to whether to chalk it up to incompetence or simply the fact that a lot of people on the Hutch side aren't directly involved in the gang stuff and therefore were totally unprepared for the kind of security measures they'd have to take in the event of the Kinahans and Byrnes going on a revenge rampage.

tomofson

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Regarding accuracy, the problem for the Hutches is that the Regency was a clusterf*ck. If it had gone their way, I think we'd have seen a very different "feud" to the one we have seen, but they failed to get either Daniel Kinahan or Liam Byrne, who by all accounts were the actual targets.

They had one shot against these guys and they blew it. It's quite obvious that they weren't prepared for a long drawn out scenario in the event of their targets surviving the initial hit - for example, and I really mean no disrespect to the dead here, but what the f*ck was Eddie Hutch Snr doing sleeping at home two days after a botched hit on the top tier of the other crowd? He was a sitting duck. They all should have been ready to go into hiding, and that means that The Monk should have had his not-involved family members well informed of what was about to go down so as to give them time to get the hell out of the city.

That's my take anyway. The Kinahan crew fled the country after David Byrne's funeral and from all accounts haven't been back. In contrast, almost all of the victims on the Hutch side have been hit at or very close to the estates in which they've always lived. Even if I was a totally innocent man with no involvement in gangland crime, if I had a brother, cousin, uncle or whatever who was involved, I'd have got the f*ck out of Dublin ASAP literally the day after news broke of the botched Regency raid.

I'm honestly unsure as to whether to chalk it up to incompetence or simply the fact that a lot of people on the Hutch side aren't directly involved in the gang stuff and therefore were totally unprepared for the kind of security measures they'd have to take in the event of the Kinahans and Byrnes going on a revenge rampage.

Eddie was still in the city because I doubt he was expecting a retaliation within two days, he probably thought he could relax and the others would take their time with retaliation.

If whoever organized the regency had told all of their immediate family their is a chance someone would have gave information over to the authorities and got them caught before anything could go ahead.

I should also point out that balbutcher drive was by all means feud related and by all means it was the Hutch mob who done that.

tomofson

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2865041/hutch-kinahan-cartel-chilling-facebook-bullet-post/

"Gary Hanley posted a photo of a box of bullets on Facebook with the message 'Just found these pills to cure all Kinahan lovers"

At least do it anonymously FFS


http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-gun-charge-4133727-Jul2018/

"The man (25) is due before the courts at 10.30am. A second man who was arrested at the same time was released without charge. A file is being prepared for the DPP."

He might be behind the whistleblower account. Right after those two lads where arrested the whistleblower made a tween saying the kinahans tried to kill him.

hatrickpatrick

tomofson wrote: »

Eddie was still in the city because I doubt he was expecting a retaliation within two days, he probably thought he could relax and the others would take their time with retaliation.

If whoever organized the regency had told all of their immediate family their is a chance someone would have gave information over to the authorities and got them caught before anything could go ahead.

Fair points, but even without prior warning, if I'd been any immediate (or even one degree of separation) relative of The Monk I'd have skipped town pretty much at dawn on the day after the Regency. Sure, Captain Hindsight and all that but it seems to me that anyone with even the slightest interest in following Irish crime knew within hours that the Regency was most likely Hutch-related at the very least. I have family with long-term involvement in journalism who weren't the slightest bit surprised at the Poplar Row shooting, except mild astonishment that Eddie was still to be found within a hundred miles of the place.

RIP one way or another. He seems to have been an entirely innocent man targeted for no reason other than to emotionally devastate The Monk.

I should also point out that balbutcher drive was by all means feud related and by all means it was the Hutch mob who done that.

This is a new one on me I must admit, I had thought that this was related to a totally different feud. My knowledge of the Dublin gangland is limited to media and being pretty good at unearthing old articles and tweets from before these things become high profile, but my understanding was that there are currently three major feuds - Hutch vs Kinahan/Byrne, a separate feud in West Co. Dublin (Clondalkin, Tallaght and nearby suburbs) and finally a third feud in North Co. Dublin (Finglas and Ballymun in particular) - the latter of which I thought was unrelated to either of the other two, but directly related to Balbutcher.

Are there any good sources with which one can get up to speed on the distinctions and overlaps between these different feuds? From all accounts, Paul Williams knows his stuff but is prone to unnecessary embellishment and exaggerations, making his writings somewhat unreliable.

r93kaey5p2izun

The Kinahans are strongly involved in a lot of the stuff in Clondalkin. They have close connections there.

tomofson

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Fair points, but even without prior warning, if I'd been any immediate (or even one degree of separation) relative of The Monk I'd have skipped town pretty much at dawn on the day after the Regency. Sure, Captain Hindsight and all that but it seems to me that anyone with even the slightest interest in following Irish crime knew within hours that the Regency was most likely Hutch-related at the very least. I have family with long-term involvement in journalism who weren't the slightest bit surprised at the Poplar Row shooting, except mild astonishment that Eddie was still to be found within a hundred miles of the place.

RIP one way or another. He seems to have been an entirely innocent man targeted for no reason other than to emotionally devastate The Monk.



This is a new one on me I must admit, I had thought that this was related to a totally different feud. My knowledge of the Dublin gangland is limited to media and being pretty good at unearthing old articles and tweets from before these things become high profile, but my understanding was that there are currently three major feuds - Hutch vs Kinahan/Byrne, a separate feud in West Co. Dublin (Clondalkin, Tallaght and nearby suburbs) and finally a third feud in North Co. Dublin (Finglas and Ballymun in particular) - the latter of which I thought was unrelated to either of the other two, but directly related to Balbutcher.

Are there any good sources with which one can get up to speed on the distinctions and overlaps between these different feuds? From all accounts, Paul Williams knows his stuff but is prone to unnecessary embellishment and exaggerations, making his writings somewhat unreliable.

considering the fact both of the suspected gunmen are long time hutch associates one of which was killed in December makes me strongly suspect it is Hutch Kinahan related. Especially so close to the killing of michael keogh. Also the media stated they believe 18 deaths are attributed to the feud.

On a side note I would say christy griffin is counting his lucky stars he was released in the midst of all this, especially considering extra police patrols in the area and the gunmen have bigger fish to fry

not yet

tomofson wrote: »

considering the fact both of the suspected gunmen are long time hutch associates one of which was killed in December makes me strongly suspect it is Hutch Kinahan related. Especially so close to the killing of michael keogh. Also the media stated they believe 18 deaths are attributed to the feud.

On a side note I would say christy griffin is counting his lucky stars he was released in the midst of all this, especially considering extra police patrols in the area and the gunmen have bigger fish to fry

Was it not January..?

glenfieldman

Major Great Cellist wrote: »

The Kinahans are strongly involved in a lot of the stuff in Clondalkin. They have close connections there.

Such as ?

benny79

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Regarding accuracy, the problem for the Hutches is that the Regency was a clusterf*ck. If it had gone their way, I think we'd have seen a very different "feud" to the one we have seen, but they failed to get either Daniel Kinahan or Liam Byrne, who by all accounts were the actual targets.

They had one shot against these guys and they blew it. It's quite obvious that they weren't prepared for a long drawn out scenario in the event of their targets surviving the initial hit - for example, and I really mean no disrespect to the dead here, but what the f*ck was Eddie Hutch Snr doing sleeping at home two days after a botched hit on the top tier of the other crowd? He was a sitting duck. They all should have been ready to go into hiding, and that means that The Monk should have had his not-involved family members well informed of what was about to go down so as to give them time to get the hell out of the city.

That's my take anyway. The Kinahan crew fled the country after David Byrne's funeral and from all accounts haven't been back. In contrast, almost all of the victims on the Hutch side have been hit at or very close to the estates in which they've always lived. Even if I was a totally innocent man with no involvement in gangland crime, if I had a brother, cousin, uncle or whatever who was involved, I'd have got the f*ck out of Dublin ASAP literally the day after news broke of the botched Regency raid.

I'm honestly unsure as to whether to chalk it up to incompetence or simply the fact that a lot of people on the Hutch side aren't directly involved in the gang stuff and therefore were totally unprepared for the kind of security measures they'd have to take in the event of the Kinahans and Byrnes going on a revenge rampage.

Totally agree! It really is beggars believe and doing the weekly shop as well! On another note are the Hutches actually doing anything! Like the monk is MIA while his family get wiped out.. Liam byrnes house in Birmingham was printed in the sunday world last week!

1. I dont know how the papers get away with this as there putting a life in danger just like printing the 2 lads running away from the Regency.
2. How come the Hutches dont act on this as it couldn't be that hard to find bet if it was the Kinahan side and the papers showed where the monk was staying they would act on it straight away.
3. Why isnt the government introducing tougher sentences for feud related attacks etc.. lads are getting caught with loaded guns.. supposedly on there way to do hits and getting 4 year sentences out in less. Yet if they weren't caught they be committing a murder!

Have to say Irish crime and the system fascinates me! Lads are worth millions retire into the sun.. No they keep going and end up dead, Jail or left with nothing. It just goes around in circles all through the generations of crime in Ireland.. Greed & Power are some disease..

What's the balbutcher drive? pm if not appropriate..

glenfieldman

What's the balbutcher drive? pm if not appropriate..[/QUOTE]

AFAIK, Bottler Devoys sister and a locksmith were killed in an attempt to kill Bottler. But thats a different feud, not K/H related

benny79

Oh yeah remember that.. The nation wasn't even that shocked dont even think we are shocked by anything anymore which shows what a sad society we live in now.. imagine that happened 20 yrs ago! There would be outrage..

glenfieldman

benny79 wrote: »

Oh yeah remember that.. The nation wasn't even that shocked dont even think we are shocked by anything anymore which shows what a sad society we live in now.. imagine that happened 20 yrs ago! There would be outrage..

We get shocked if a week goes by without a shooting
BTW, this (nice) weather must have all the hit men in the park with the bag of cans, very calm

hatrickpatrick

benny79 wrote: »

Oh yeah remember that.. The nation wasn't even that shocked dont even think we are shocked by anything anymore which shows what a sad society we live in now.. imagine that happened 20 yrs ago! There would be outrage..

^To be fair, is this actually true? 20 years ago in 1998, the three original target markets of the Dunne drug dealing operation (Teresa's Gardens, Dolphin House and Fatima, all within a ten minute walk of eachother in Dolphin's Barn and Rialto) were still considered absolute no-go areas due to all the bullsh!t that left in its wake, and as far as I know, in the 1990s pre-IFSC the whole Sheriff St area and the entire stretch of the north inner city stretching from Sheriffer as far as the Mater hospital was also extremely dangerous due to gangland activity.

I would have been too young to remember any of this back then (born '89) but from what I've heard (my family lived briefly on Donore Ave opposite one of the particularly dangerous estates), shootings, burning of peoples' homes, carjackings, and even murders were so common in these areas that the media essentially wasn't interested, they were just regarded as areas "lost to the gangs" and not worth either fighting for or even taking notice of if you didn't happen to live in one.

I can certainly tell you that this impression of Dublin totally coloured the "warnings" about it my parents gave me when I started college in Francis St (which ironically was where David Byrne's funeral was held, college closed for the day for safety reasons) back in 2011, most of my friends lives in places which had relatively cheap rent because they were close to some of the estates regarded as dodgy in the Dublin 8 area and any time I ever went out at night to go to a party or gig, my parents would warn me to be careful because the whole area was a known hotspot for organised crime, and "there's fellas living around there who'd beat you up just for looking the wrong way crossing the street". And my dad had similar warnings for me about a house party on Oxmanstown Road in Stoneybatter, just because it happened to be a few blocks away from O'Devaney Gardens - what he didn't realise was that this estate has been almost entirely demolished by now.

So yeah, in my opinion based on any Dublin history lessons I've got from my family, Dublin is a lot less dangerous and crime-infested than it used to be - or at the very least, the crime has moved around a bit, because none of the long list of places I was told to avoid as a young man starting college in the city, barring one or two, turned out to be all that dangerous. I've been told that it was the 1996 murder of Veronica Guerin which finally woke Irish society up to the fact that this stuff had gone too far, but that prior to this, gangs operated in "trouble areas" with relative impunity, so long as they didn't spread their trouble to areas which hadn't essentially been "let go" by the justice system in terms of trying to put a stop to criminality.

I'd suggest that the reason the Regency got so much media is exactly because of this - would it have been such a big, shocking news story if it had happened during the days of the heroin crisis and the ongoing Troubles? Or would it just have been dismissed as "yet another drugs / IRA related incident"?

benny79

Cant agree with all of that.. I grew up in 1 of those areas and was born in 79.. Yes there was gangs, junkies everywhere.. but you could walk around they only dished out hidings to those that owed money etc but house break in's and robberies would of been high. I seen a armed robbery in the bookies 1 Saturday walking home from the scouts!

Dont recall many gangland killings not by today's standards there be probably 2 or 3 murders a year and there be outrage at each one of them!

begbysback

tomofson wrote: »

He might be behind the whistleblower account. Right after those two lads where arrested the whistleblower made a tween saying the kinahans tried to kill him.

Sure? I thought they tweeted that, then two were arrested a day or 2 later.

Chaos Tourist

No wonder the media went bananas over the Regency attack. This wasn't some low level bagman getting murdered late at night down some lonely country lane.

This was a full-on brazen attack in a landmark hotel in daylight at a sports related event involving some of the biggest traffickers yet seen in this country. A small amount of footage was caught on camera, loads of photos, men dressed as cops, one attacker dressed as a woman etc.

Ash.J.Williams

If they got kinehan in the regency shooting the repercussions wouldnt have been as severe. Shooting a Byrne made it very personal.

Suckit

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

If they got kinehan in the regency shooting the repercussions wouldnt have been as severe. Shooting a Byrne made it very personal.

Rumour has it, the 'order' or 'wish' to wipe them all out came from a Byrne.

SEPT 23 1989

Suckit wrote: »

Rumour has it, the 'order' or 'wish' to wipe them all out came from a Byrne.

Gay?

Suckit

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Gay?

He asked it in the back of the RTE studios while wearing his bally and holding an uzi.