Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Bridge93

Wasps have as many absentees as Ulster if not more. If they play like this Ulster have every chance

Interested Observer

Johne Murphy on Newstalk on here talking about body language in the Ulster squad. Said he saw stuff last night that if he had have done it while playing for Munster, POC for example would have hammered him for it. He hasn't said it but the suggestion basically is something is rotten up there.

Bridge93

If Dai Young is to be believed Wasps only have 26 senior players to pick from for next week unless a few heal in time. Hopefully two weeks is much the same

Interested Observer

Bridge93 wrote: »

If Dai Young is to be believed Wasps only have 26 senior players to pick from for next week unless a few heal in time. Hopefully two weeks is much the same

25 now it looks like, Willie Le Roux in bad shape.

errlloyd

Interested Observer wrote: »

Johne Murphy on Newstalk on here talking about body language in the Ulster squad. Said he saw stuff last night that if he had have done it while playing for Munster, POC for example would have hammered him for it. He hasn't said it but the suggestion basically is something is rotten up there.

When Reggie asked POM about passion or whatever, there was a national outcry. But Sky Sports asked Rory Best yesterday did Ulster lack the belief to win at the RDS (which I thought was a pretty dickish question), but Rory's answer was "I really hope we don't". It was an honest, heartfelt answer. But in it there was a hint that maybe he thinks it's a possibility that this Ulster side is low on belief.

Also btw, his interview was touching, and hard to watch. The clips of him going from that interview, to signing autographs with predominantly young Leinster fans, was amazing.

Former Former

Interested Observer wrote: »

Johne Murphy on Newstalk on here talking about body language in the Ulster squad. Said he saw stuff last night that if he had have done it while playing for Munster, POC for example would have hammered him for it. He hasn't said it but the suggestion basically is something is rotten up there.

Something is rotten up there. The players weren't trying last night. They didn't give a shyte.

If Kiss is a rubbish coach who's completely out of his depth, then that's unfortunate and should be remedied with a p45.

If you have capped internationals not giving a toss then they're every bit as much the problem. What you do about them is not as clear cut.


And there has to be a huge question about Best's captaincy.

blackdog1

Former Former wrote: »

Something is rotten up there. The players weren't trying last night. They didn't give a shyte.

If Kiss is a rubbish coach who's completely out of his depth, then that's unfortunate and should be remedied with a p45.

If you have capped internationals not giving a toss then they're every bit as much the problem. What you do about them is not as clear cut.


And there has to be a huge question about Best's captaincy.

Asked a Leinster player why they wont move up to Ulster and he said there is no craic up there. Leinster is supposed to be a great place to play and train. Really niggly on the pitch but great fun after. I heard the Front row regularly have a get together (pints) and they invite all front rows including academy players. Its no wonder we have front rows coming out our ears and they get on great.

irishbucsfan

If you don’t have buy-in from the players then that is also something that is the responsibility of the coach and can be similarly remedied.

irishbucsfan

blackdog1 wrote: »

Asked a Leinster player why they wont move up to Ulster and he said there is no craic up there. Leinster is supposed to be a great place to play and train. Really niggly on the pitch but great fun after. I heard the Front row regularly have a get together (pints) and they invite all front rows including academy players. Its no wonder we have front rows coming out our ears and they get on great.

Off-field culture of that kind needs to be remedied by the players really, you need guys in leadership positions who would be socially capable of building that culture and atmosphere by organising things. Some of the biggest/richest sports teams in the world have had this problem where you end up with a squad of talented athletes but not the right balance of personalities.

Utah_Saint

blackdog1 wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

Something is rotten up there. The players weren't trying last night. They didn't give a shyte.

If Kiss is a rubbish coach who's completely out of his depth, then that's unfortunate and should be remedied with a p45.

If you have capped internationals not giving a toss then they're every bit as much the problem. What you do about them is not as clear cut.


And there has to be a huge question about Best's captaincy.

Asked a Leinster player why they wont move up to Ulster and he said there is no craic up there. Leinster is supposed to be a great place to play and train. Really niggly on the pitch but great fun after. I heard the Front row regularly have a get together (pints) and they invite all front rows including academy players. Its no wonder we have front rows coming out our ears and they get on great.

I don't doubt it. We have a habit of signing saffers who love nothing more than a good church service. Bonding over pints would be definitely off the cards.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you don’t have buy-in from the players then that is also something that is the responsibility of the coach and can be similarly remedied.

No doubt. And if he's lost the dressing room (as it really does appear) then that can only end one way, regardless of who's in the wrong.

However, Kiss isn't going anywhere before the end of the season and if the players don't sort their own attitudes out then it's going to be a loooong few months.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

No doubt. And if he's lost the dressing room (as it really does appear) then that can only end one way, regardless of who's in the wrong.

However, Kiss isn't going anywhere before the end of the season and if the players don't sort their own attitudes out then it's going to be a loooong few months.

He wouldn’t be anywhere near the first coach to depart mid-season and very often it can lead to a temporary mitigation of a long-term problem when that disruption happens. I’d certainly be considering it.

mfceiling

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I don't doubt it. We have a habit of signing saffers who love nothing more than a good church service. Bonding over pints would be definitely off the cards.

That's true but a fair few of them would bond over the bible. Small paul, Trimble and a few others would have that in common.

I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a real lack of intent from some of the players - forwards in particular. Completely uninterested in tackling and making half hearted attempts at slowing down mauls etc.

Kiss to my mind isn't a great coach but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"

Former Former

mfceiling wrote: »

That's true but a fair few of them would bond over the bible. Small paul, Trimble and a few others would have that in common.

I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a real lack of intent from some of the players - forwards in particular. Completely uninterested in tackling and making half hearted attempts at slowing down mauls etc.

Kiss to my mind isn't a great coach but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"

The match stats are fascinating. Possession and territory were pretty much 50:50 but the tackle stats show exactly where Ulster went wrong. They only made 111 and missed 27, whereas Leinster made 169 and only missed 11.

No Ulster forward made it into double figures of tackles. That's not good enough.

mfceiling

Former Former wrote: »

The match stats are fascinating. Possession and territory were pretty much 50:50 but the tackle stats show exactly where Ulster went wrong. They only made 111 and missed 27, whereas Leinster made 169 and only missed 11.

No Ulster forward made it into double figures of tackles. That's not good enough.

It's a pìsser watching it cause you can see it from the first minute. I always end up shouting at the tele "oh I see we're going with the passive tackling tonight".

Even at the rucks we have no one bar Rory slowing down ball. I genuinely can't remember the last time we won a penalty for a jackal. Hopefully Coetzee comes back and along with Murphy they might make a difference.

I am hopeful for a few of the academy boys coming through. Matty Rea looks useful and Mc Philips, Cairns, Stewart and Dalton are seeing game time which can only be a good thing.

molloyjh

Kiss' time at Ulster is probably done. Whether he lasts the rest of the season or not is the only real question, although I think he will. It's hard not to feel sorry for the guy. The simple reality is that there are huge changes required up in Ulster and no coach is going to be able to implement those changes by himself. The coaches need an organisation that is willing to do the hard work to turn things around. I don't know a massive amount about Ulster Rugby but I've seen precious little evidence that the appetite for that stuff is there. Kiss will go, but Ulster will still have a hell of a lot of work to do.

Ultimately the situation up there now is that experienced and proven coaches (defence and forwards) are unable to deliver effective performances and we're looking at another coach leaving in difficult circumstances. It's hard to see how any replacement coach is going to make much of a difference. The couple of good signings up front will help somewhat but there's still going to be far too much average-ness in the squad. Fixing things in Ulster will take years, and unless the organisation is given the time (and commits to the time) it's going to be very difficult to actually affect that change. Kicking out coaches every 2 years certainly isn't going to help.

molloyjh

mfceiling wrote: »

Even at the rucks we have no one bar Rory slowing down ball. I genuinely can't remember the last time we won a penalty for a jackal.

Didn't you win a couple yesterday? Deysel definitely won one in your 22 in the first half.

Tigerandahalf

mfceiling wrote: »

That's true but a fair few of them would bond over the bible. Small paul, Trimble and a few others would have that in common.

I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a real lack of intent from some of the players - forwards in particular. Completely uninterested in tackling and making half hearted attempts at slowing down mauls etc.

Kiss to my mind isn't a great coach but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"

That's the unique thing about the Ulster setup. I guess it sums up N Ireland. There is that fundamental Christian thing up there that is light years behind where people are now.

Was Pienaar that sort of bloke too. He always came across as being very stoic and reserved, not exactly the type of guy to wrap your club around.

I guesss the whole setup up there is still very much of a Protestant heartland. Do many Nationalists/Catholics attend games? I guess T Bowe and C Gilroy would attract more in.

I never been at a game up there so hard to guage the feel of the place. Always a great atmosphere there. Probably the best stadium/atmosphere in the pro14.

wavehopper1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I never been at a game up there so hard to guage the feel of the place. Always a great atmosphere there. Probably the best stadium/atmosphere in the pro14.

Eh...what? do you mean there's a great atmosphere coming across from the tv coverage?

Utah_Saint

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

That's true but a fair few of them would bond over the bible. Small paul, Trimble and a few others would have that in common.

I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a real lack of intent from some of the players - forwards in particular. Completely uninterested in tackling and making half hearted attempts at slowing down mauls etc.

Kiss to my mind isn't a great coach but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"

That's the unique thing about the Ulster setup. I guess it sums up N Ireland. There is that fundamental Christian thing up there that is light years behind where people are now.

Was Pienaar that sort of bloke too. He always came across as being very stoic and reserved, not exactly the type of guy to wrap your club around.

I guesss the whole setup up there is still very much of a Protestant heartland. Do many Nationalists/Catholics attend games? I guess T Bowe and C Gilroy would attract more in.

I never been at a game up there so hard to guage the feel of the place. Always a great atmosphere there. Probably the best stadium/atmosphere in the pro14.

Yeah I find the religion thing a bit odd but it's not promoted by anyone so I suppose each to their own. I believe the religious element was a factor for players like coetzee, herbst, Browne signing and for Ruan turning down toulon.

The sport is played and viewed but predominantly one side of the community. It's just a legacy thing that will change. And has been changing. I don't think the players faith influences fans coming to watch. I think the performance of the national side and the opportunity to see international sports people does get people interested. Although Ulster won't have many of those in a few seasons.

Utah_Saint

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

That's true but a fair few of them would bond over the bible. Small paul, Trimble and a few others would have that in common.

I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a real lack of intent from some of the players - forwards in particular. Completely uninterested in tackling and making half hearted attempts at slowing down mauls etc.

Kiss to my mind isn't a great coach but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"

That's the unique thing about the Ulster setup. I guess it sums up N Ireland. There is that fundamental Christian thing up there that is light years behind where people are now.

Was Pienaar that sort of bloke too. He always came across as being very stoic and reserved, not exactly the type of guy to wrap your club around.

I guesss the whole setup up there is still very much of a Protestant heartland. Do many Nationalists/Catholics attend games? I guess T Bowe and C Gilroy would attract more in.

I never been at a game up there so hard to guage the feel of the place. Always a great atmosphere there. Probably the best stadium/atmosphere in the pro14.

Yeah I find the religion thing a bit odd but it's not promoted by anyone so I suppose each to their own. I believe the religious element was a factor for players like coetzee, herbst, Browne signing and for Ruan turning down toulon.

The sport is played and viewed by predominantly one side of the community. It's just a legacy thing that will change. And has been changing. I don't think the players faith influences fans coming to watch. I think the performance of the national side and the opportunity to see international sports people does get people interested. Although Ulster won't have many of those in a few seasons.

Zzippy

Let's leave religion out of this folks

Interested Observer

“I don’t think they’re that much better than us,” Les Kiss, the embattled Ulster director of rugby

Look I know I'm a Leinster supporter and would tend to overrate Leinster/Leinster players but this is ****ing delusional from Kiss. What on earth is he talking about? If he honestly believes this then I really can't see how he can be in any sort of position to turn things around.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/leinster-not-much-better-than-us-says-ulster-coach-after-defeat-1.3347710

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

Look I know I'm a Leinster supporter and would tend to overrate Leinster/Leinster players but this is ****ing delusional from Kiss. What on earth is he talking about? If he honestly believes this then I really can't see how he can be in any sort of position to turn things around.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/leinster-not-much-better-than-us-says-ulster-coach-after-defeat-1.3347710

Kiss often gives these delusional nonsense interviews after matches.

I really hope he doesn't genuinely believe that and is only trying to talk up his own team for their own sake.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

Kiss often gives these delusional nonsense interviews after matches.

I really hope he doesn't genuinely believe that and is only trying to talk up his own team for their own sake.

He's probably right if the team had included Jckson, Stockdale, Payne and Coetzee. Or even three of the above four. And if Payne had been playing in the centre.

Cave should have been capable of organising the defence, he's experienced enough, but he failed miserably. With Stewart and McPhillips being so inexperienced, he should have stepped up to the mark. Instead he got steamrolled, bit in, made bad decisions and was probably individually responsible for at least two of Leinster's tries. McPhillips and Stewart between them, made more tackles than him and missed less.

Former Former

I think he maybe means that they're not THAT much better, i.e. they're not 31 points better than us; which is fair enough I think.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

I think he maybe means that they're not THAT much better, i.e. they're not 31 points better than us; which is fair enough I think.

Well the bookies thought so too. Fifteen point spread was what they were giving and I actually felt that was being ungenerous to Ulster. What do I know?

MJohnston

They're not much better in terms of player lineups. That's what makes Ulster's performance so disappointing and irritating.

prawnsambo

MJohnston wrote: »

They're not much better in terms of player lineups. That's what makes Ulster's performance so disappointing and irritating.

Only if everybody's fit and available though. There were 15 players definitely unavailable for the Leinster match and a further two or three who also may not have been. Like Van der Merwe who hasn't played since he benched against Connacht.

And that fifteen includes nine capped internationals.

I encourage anyone who wants to blame the defence to go back and watch the match again. The game was lost and lost completely at the breakdown. The defence wasn't good enough but the game was lost and put to bed by being turned over whenever Leinster decided they wanted the ball back.

I don't disagree that Kiss is potentially out of his depth, but if you want to blame someone for the weekend I'd be looking at Gibbs first and a few of the more experienced players second.