Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

bilston · 07-01-2018 10:57am

awec wrote: »

Two more defeats in a row the most likely outcome for the next two weeks, it’s hard to see how we beat La Rochelle with their first team playing or Wasps away.

Things are going to get pretty unpleasant.

In league terms our next two are not too bad, the kings and Edinburgh at home. We go away to the Scarlets during the six nations, we’ll have almost a full deck as we’re not going to be contributing much to Ireland, the scarlets should have a good few out so we might sneak that one.

I doubt our full strength team could win away to the Scarlets, even against a weakened opposition.

awec · 07-01-2018 10:59am

bilston wrote: »

I doubt our full strength team could win away to the Scarlets, even against a weakened opposition.

I was trying to be positive

awec · 07-01-2018 11:02am

I want to see Stewart and McPhillips in every league 23 between now and the end of the season. McPhillips should bench in Europe too given we’ve no other options.

Bizarrely I think Cairns is in the Euro squad and Stewart isn't.

bilston · 07-01-2018 11:03am

I wonder who we will get. Talk of Giteau. He might kick a few arses into gear. He was part of a great team environment at Toulon.

If it's Donald then meh...I'd probably prefer we just go with McPhillips. Or I suppose having Beaver would be fine provided McPhillips get a few starts along the way. McPhillips has been pretty impressive so far. But its one thing coming on to fight a lost cause, it's another to start a game and control it from the get go.

awec · 07-01-2018 11:13am

bilston wrote: »

I wonder who we will get. Talk of Giteau. He might kick a few arses into gear. He was part of a great team environment at Toulon.

If it's Donald then meh...I'd probably prefer we just go with McPhillips. Or I suppose having Beaver would be fine provided McPhillips get a few starts along the way. McPhillips has been pretty impressive so far. But its one thing coming on to fight a lost cause, it's another to start a game and control it from the get go.

McPhillips isn’t ready for that level of responsibility yet. We all know this season is a write off and we’re going to win absolutely nothing, however this season has been so terrible that this team can not afford anything other than strong performances to see the season out.

We need a winning streak soon with strong performances. We haven’t had that all season.

Utah_Saint · 07-01-2018 11:14am

I agree, start McPhilllips and Stewart at every opportunity. This season is a write off. We are clearly not gonna do anything in Europe and even if we make the league playoffs it will end at the first hurdle.

Will be interesting to see how attendances go the rest of the season. However I think we have more season tickets sold than required to break even.

Buer · 07-01-2018 11:19am

awec wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

I wonder who we will get. Talk of Giteau. He might kick a few arses into gear. He was part of a great team environment at Toulon.

If it's Donald then meh...I'd probably prefer we just go with McPhillips. Or I suppose having Beaver would be fine provided McPhillips get a few starts along the way. McPhillips has been pretty impressive so far. But its one thing coming on to fight a lost cause, it's another to start a game and control it from the get go.

McPhillips isn’t ready for that level of responsibility yet. We all know this season is a write off and we’re going to win absolutely nothing, however this season has been so terrible that this team can not afford anything other than strong performances to see the season out.

We need a winning streak soon with strong performances. We haven’t had that all season.

If this season is a write off, it would be madness to spend a couple hundred thousand on Giteau. The time should be invested in McPhillips and the money put towards a proper signing for next season.

awec · 07-01-2018 11:24am

Buer wrote: »

If this season is a write off, it would be madness to spend a couple hundred thousand on Giteau. The time should be invested in McPhillips and the money put towards a proper signing for next season.

I don’t think they are in a position to take that approach.

Ulster need good performances and good results to sell season tickets.

prawnsambo · 07-01-2018 11:25am

Buer wrote: »

If this season is a write off, it would be madness to spend a couple hundred thousand on Giteau. The time should be invested in McPhillips and the money put towards a proper signing for next season.

Ah, you can't play McPhillips in every game and the only other alternative is Nelson, who's really not a ten. This is the problem for Ulster. There has to be some rotation and in a lot of positions it's rotating from barely adequate to downright awful.

Edit: And a guy like McPhillips, who looks like he could be really good, the emphasis must be on developing him gradually rather than dumping the whole shooting match on his shoulders week in, week out.

bilston · 07-01-2018 11:30am

awec wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

I wonder who we will get. Talk of Giteau. He might kick a few arses into gear. He was part of a great team environment at Toulon.

If it's Donald then meh...I'd probably prefer we just go with McPhillips. Or I suppose having Beaver would be fine provided McPhillips get a few starts along the way. McPhillips has been pretty impressive so far. But its one thing coming on to fight a lost cause, it's another to start a game and control it from the get go.

McPhillips isn’t ready for that level of responsibility yet. We all know this season is a write off and we’re going to win absolutely nothing, however this season has been so terrible that this team can not afford anything other than strong performances to see the season out.

We need a winning streak soon with strong performances. We haven’t had that all season.

If the season is a write off then surely playing McPhillips would be the best way to go?

Edit - never mind you've answered that point. To be honest I think Ulster will always sell tickets. We haven't won anything in 12 years and we still get big crowds. Why should it be any different now. The general bloke or blokeess on the street probably don't have the same depth of concerns about Ulster as most in the Messageboard land.

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 12:15pm

awec wrote: »

I don’t think they are in a position to take that approach.

Ulster need good performances and good results to sell season tickets.

I'd rather we don't sell season tickets and someone takes a closer look at Logan, tbh.

awec · 07-01-2018 12:39pm

Didn’t realise Giteau was as old as 35. Does anyone know what he’s like these days?

If he is the mystery man then at least we know he won’t be playing 80 mins every week.

awec · 07-01-2018 2:01pm

bilston wrote: »

If the season is a write off then surely playing McPhillips would be the best way to go?

Edit - never mind you've answered that point. To be honest I think Ulster will always sell tickets. We haven't won anything in 12 years and we still get big crowds. Why should it be any different now. The general bloke or blokeess on the street probably don't have the same depth of concerns about Ulster as most in the Messageboard land.

Well the other issue is failure to qualify for the super duper cup would be a complete disaster.

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 2:08pm

awec wrote: »

Well the other issue is failure to qualify for the super duper cup would be a complete disaster.

I'd say we're fairly safe on that count, we should easily make 4th.

Anyone know what happens to Euro qualification if Cheetahs stay in the top 4 of Conference A?

Bazzo · 07-01-2018 2:12pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd say we're fairly safe on that count, we should easily make 4th.

Anyone know what happens to Euro qualification if Cheetahs stay in the top 4 of Conference A?

Nothing, the spots just move past them to the next placed team(s)

awec · 07-01-2018 2:13pm

If we finished fourth we’d have to play a playoff for Europe right ?

bilston · 07-01-2018 2:17pm

awec wrote: »

If we finished fourth we’d have to play a playoff for Europe right ?

I think so.

I wouldn't want it to happen but a year in the Challenge Cup might turn out to be some very tough medicine.

awec · 07-01-2018 2:19pm

How does the playoff work? A coin toss for home or away or neutral?

We’d be screwed away from home.

Bazzo · 07-01-2018 2:20pm

awec wrote: »

How does the playoff work? A coin toss for home or away or neutral?

We’d be screwed away from home.

Better points gets home advantage I think.

bilston · 07-01-2018 2:22pm

Bazzo wrote: »

awec wrote: »

How does the playoff work? A coin toss for home or away or neutral?

We’d be screwed away from home.

Better points gets home advantage I think.

Conference B is miles ahead of Conference A re: points (at the moment anyway).

Bridge93 · 07-01-2018 2:24pm

As it stands it would be Edinburgh v Connacht. 13 points the difference currently

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 2:26pm

awec wrote: »

If we finished fourth we’d have to play a playoff for Europe right ?

No...I think this has to do with the fact that the Euro places are calculated based on an all-14 team table, I believe.

So currently:

Team|Conf|Pts
Glasgow|A|58
Scarlets|B|53
Leinster|B|51
Munster|A|43
Ulster|B|40
Edinburgh|B|37
Cheetahs|A|30
Benetton|B|29
Cardiff|A|25
Connacht|A|24
Ospreys|A|21
Zebre|A|17
Dragons|B|14
Kings|B|4

Edit: this isn't true at all. I don't know what Wikipedia is at then:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Pro14#Table

Bridge93 · 07-01-2018 2:28pm

So it's not too 3 in A and top 3 in B with a playoff for the 7th?

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 2:32pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

So it's not too 3 in A and top 3 in B with a playoff for the 7th?

It is that. I could have sworn I heard the combined table would be used back before the season started, but it must be for something else. The table on the Wikipedia page threw me off, but it must not have been correctly updated.

Bazzo · 07-01-2018 2:33pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

So it's not too 3 in A and top 3 in B with a playoff for the 7th?

It is, don't know where that information came from but excluding South African teams top 3 in each conference automatically qualify, 4th places playoff.

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 2:35pm

The Pro 14 Wikipedia page also has this incorrect information, if anyone is an editor there and wants to correct it:

As for European qualification, the South African teams are ineligible at this time for European Competition. However seven places remain for teams competing in the competition, despite the change of format. The top three teams in each conference, excluding the South African teams if necessary, will gain qualification into the Champions Cup. The next best team on a combined table across both conferences, takes the seventh place in the Champions Cup.

MJohnston · 07-01-2018 2:38pm

I think I see the confusion now, seems like PRO14 Rugby only introduced the 7th spot playoff in October after the season had already started:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro14/pro14-rugby-reveal-new-playoff-to-decide-seventh-champions-cup-place-36209763.html

Before that common reporting seems to have supported my line of thinking above:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/guinness-pro14-how-the-expanded-tournament-will-work-1.3173768

The Pro14 Final Series will now include quarter-finals allowing six clubs to reach the knockout stages. The top three clubs from each conference will qualify for the Champions Cup while the fourth-placed team with the highest points total will claim the final Champions Cup place.

awec · 07-01-2018 3:31pm

Yea they changed it.

I suspect the combined table would be used for the seedings for the draw.

thomond2006 · 07-01-2018 4:34pm

Giteau will play in a Top League semi-final next weekend and a potential final afterwards.
He's 35 and spent a lot of his last season at Toulon injured IIRC. I wouldn't be rushing to chuck a big cheque at him. He's got a young family so I imagine the offer would need to be significant to convince him to move.

Interested Observer · 07-01-2018 4:34pm

Wasps getting hammered by Saracens here, 3-18 after 31 mins. Wasps at home too.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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