Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

bilston

The Academy is improving.

Ulster have a few good local lads under the age of 22...

McBurney, Rea, Stewart, Stockdale and Lyttle.

Then below that you have lads like Reid, O'Toole (came from Australia at 16 I think but we can claim him), Dalton, Hall, Dunleavy, Lowry and Hume (there may be others). And then there is the U18 side that beat all comers this year including Leinster twice so there are bound to be some very good prospects amongst that group.

We don't have the numbers of Leinster, we probably never will, but we should be doing better than what we have done in the last few years.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

The Academy is improving.

Ulster have a few good local lads under the age of 22...

McBurney, Rea, Stewart, Stockdale and Lyttle.

Then below that you have lads like Reid, O'Toole (came from Australia at 16 I think but we can claim him), Dalton, Hall, Dunleavy, Lowry and Hume (there may be others). And then there is the U18 side that beat all comers this year including Leinster twice so there are bound to be some very good prospects amongst that group.

We don't have the numbers of Leinster, we probably never will, but we should be doing better than what we have done in the last few years.

That does sound like work is being done all right. Is there still a concern over the brain drain on those U18s guys do you know?

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

How much work goes into the young players by the provinces before they get to academy stage? It's just schools that do the work at that stage, right? Probably with the odd input from a provincial coach?

I'm not 100% sure (no doubt there are others here who know far better) but there is a sub-Academy so there is definitely work done with guys before they get into the Academy.

AdamD

awec wrote: »

How much work goes into the young players by the provinces before they get to academy stage? It's just schools that do the work at that stage, right? Probably with the odd input from a provincial coach?

There are definitely training camps and some underage teams in Leinster (u17s, u18s etc. who play games).

irishfan9

awec wrote: »

How much work goes into the young players by the provinces before they get to academy stage? It's just schools that do the work at that stage, right? Probably with the odd input from a provincial coach?

no there is a large amount of work done.. well in leinster anyway

irishfan9

AdamD wrote: »

There are definitely training camps and some underage teams in Leinster (u17s, u18s etc. who play games).

Same in Ulster.

irishbucsfan

Sure where are the kids supposed to get the 'roids if Leinster don't sort them?

irishfan9

molloyjh wrote: »

That does sound like work is being done all right. Is there still a concern over the brain drain on those U18s guys do you know?

brain drain is overrated, academy levels players stay in NI and go to uni in Queens, very few obvious academy level players have been lost to the UK.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The Academy is improving.

Ulster have a few good local lads under the age of 22...

McBurney, Rea, Stewart, Stockdale and Lyttle.

Then below that you have lads like Reid, O'Toole (came from Australia at 16 I think but we can claim him), Dalton, Hall, Dunleavy, Lowry and Hume (there may be others). And then there is the U18 side that beat all comers this year including Leinster twice so there are bound to be some very good prospects amongst that group.

We don't have the numbers of Leinster, we probably never will, but we should be doing better than what we have done in the last few years.

That does sound like work is being done all right. Is there still a concern over the brain drain on those U18s guys do you know?

The best players will almost always stay in NI for Uni so it isn't a major issue for them. It's the level below that which has a negative impact on the clubs which in turn may slow the progress of some of our Academy players as none of them are exposed to 1A rugby meaning they are jumping from 1B/2A to playing for the Ulster A team.

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

How much work goes into the young players by the provinces before they get to academy stage? It's just schools that do the work at that stage, right? Probably with the odd input from a provincial coach?

It isnt just schools. Its schools and clubs. The players will be playing in their school/club/both and the stronger players/players with potential to progress are identified from the age of 15 where they receive training from provincial set up. Players constantly added and removed from provincial set up all the way from age of 15 to 19.

bilston wrote: »

The Academy is improving.

Ulster have a few good local lads under the age of 22...

McBurney, Rea, Stewart, Stockdale and Lyttle.

Then below that you have lads like Reid, O'Toole (came from Australia at 16 I think but we can claim him), Dalton, Hall, Dunleavy, Lowry and Hume (there may be others). And then there is the U18 side that beat all comers this year including Leinster twice so there are bound to be some very good prospects amongst that group.

We don't have the numbers of Leinster, we probably never will, but we should be doing better than what we have done in the last few years.

Its improving and good to see a youths player like McBurney, Rea isnt one of the very big schools.
That was the under 18 schools and there should be some players come through that side but hopefully the clubs side can come through and be developed better.
Ulster never will get the numbers of Leinster when so many catholic schools dont play to a high level if at all and if enough work isnt put in to get kids from those schools not playing rugby into clubs to play rugby

irishfan9

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt just schools. Its schools and clubs. The players will be playing in their school/club/both and the stronger players/players with potential to progress are identified from the age of 15 where they receive training from provincial set up. Players constantly added and removed from provincial set up all the way from age of 15 to 19.

Its improving and good to see a youths player like McBurney, Rea isnt one of the very big schools.
That was the under 18 schools and there should be some players come through that side but hopefully the clubs side can come through and be developed better.
Ulster never will get the numbers of Leinster when so many catholic schools dont play to a high level if at all and if enough work isnt put in to get kids from those schools not playing rugby into clubs to play rugby

Rea went to Ballymena, thats a big school.

bilston

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

awec wrote: »

How much work goes into the young players by the provinces before they get to academy stage? It's just schools that do the work at that stage, right? Probably with the odd input from a provincial coach?

It isnt just schools. Its schools and clubs. The players will be playing in their school/club/both and the stronger players/players with potential to progress are identified from the age of 15 where they receive training from provincial set up. Players constantly added and removed from provincial set up all the way from age of 15 to 19.

bilston wrote: »

The Academy is improving.

Ulster have a few good local lads under the age of 22...

McBurney, Rea, Stewart, Stockdale and Lyttle.

Then below that you have lads like Reid, O'Toole (came from Australia at 16 I think but we can claim him), Dalton, Hall, Dunleavy, Lowry and Hume (there may be others). And then there is the U18 side that beat all comers this year including Leinster twice so there are bound to be some very good prospects amongst that group.

We don't have the numbers of Leinster, we probably never will, but we should be doing better than what we have done in the last few years.

Its improving and good to see a youths player like McBurney, Rea isnt one of the very big schools.
That was the under 18 schools and there should be some players come through that side but hopefully the clubs side can come through and be developed better.
Ulster never will get the numbers of Leinster when so many catholic schools dont play to a high level if at all and if enough work isnt put in to get kids from those schools not playing rugby into clubs to play rugby

Yeah, it's the elephant in the room. The clubs need to be pro active here Ulster rugby needs to get out to the schools and send the likes of Piutau, Henderson, Best, Stockdale and Cooney to these schools and host a coaching clinic. Even if the schools themselves don't take the sport on you might just inspire 2 or 3 kids from each school you go to you go to their local club on a Saturday morning and then who knows what happens from there.

awec

Ulstermen needed. Apply within.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

Ulstermen needed. Apply within.

Is that your bedroom wall?

stephen_n

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Is that your bedroom wall?

No it’s Les Kiss’s

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Is that your bedroom wall?

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, it's the elephant in the room. The clubs need to be pro active here Ulster rugby needs to get out to the schools and send the likes of Piutau, Henderson, Best, Stockdale and Cooney to these schools and host a coaching clinic. Even if the schools themselves don't take the sport on you might just inspire 2 or 3 kids from each school you go to you go to their local club on a Saturday morning and then who knows what happens from there.

I didn't realise this until Jaco said it, but this is what's running Ulster Rugby:

OFFICERS OF THE ULSTER BRANCH
President
Graffin Parke

Senior Vice President
Stephen Elliott

Junior Vice President
Gary Leslie

Honorary Secretary
Denis Gardiner

Honorary Treasurer
Michael Boyd

Competitions Honorary Secretary
Greg Irwin

OTHER APPOINTMENTS
Honorary Life Vice Presidents
R Montgomery (Cooke), I H Beggs (Carrickfergus), M Wilson (Shorts)

Trustees
H McC Logan, N Jackson, H McKibbin

Auditors
Deloitte & Touche Chartered Accountants

Audit Committee
D Workman (Chairman), P Hart, H Johnston

Internal Auditors
Deloitte & Touche Chartered Accountants

MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE
P Terrington (Chairman), G Parke (President), S Elliott, G Leslie, D Gardiner, M Boyd, G Irwin, CW Watson, D Millar, S Black, P Rainey, S Logan IRFU Rep.

BRANCH COMMITTEE
The Officers with Past Presidents
C F Kennedy, S Millar, J M McKelvey, W S H Lavery, W J Hewitt, D A Crawford, H McC Logan, J B Stevenson, W B W Turtle, D R Coey, J R Callaghan, G A R Drennan, T H N Jackson, J H Eagleson, DJK Wilson, SR Hilditch, CH McKibbin, IH Graham, JSM Huey, DTC Workman, JB Boyd, CW Watson, N Hamilton, WL Caldwell, R Cole, J Robinson, JB Kinnear, B Stewart, J McKibbin.

Honorary Life Vice Presidents
R Montgomery (Cooke), I H Beggs (Carrickfergus), M Wilson (Shorts).

Club Representatives
E Morton (Armagh), M McCullough (Ballymena), P Gregg (Ballynahinch), S Best (Banbridge), N Gault (Bangor), W Kettyle (Belfast Harlequins), M Allen (City of Derry), P Magee (Dungannon), L Rocke (Malone), S Elliott (Queen's), P Flanagan (Rainey OB).

Clubs Committee Representatives
D Anderson, J Hamilton, J Lyttle, T McCracken, G Treanor, N Workman.

Other Representatives
D Millar (co-opted), P Hart (co-opted), P Rainey (co-opted), S Black (Headmasters), P Terrington (Management), M Orr (Referees), B McGonigle (Schools), Womens Committee (TBA).

The Womens Committee (TBA) is feckin hilarious.

irishbucsfan

Great lads though

How do you go about actually getting 3 initials before your name, do you have to put it on a business card or something? I actually have a relative on that list who only has the one initial, so I'll have to get on to him and see if we can get ourselves bumped up to two-initial status at least, I feel like the middle name is going to waste otherwise.

awec

I don't know how much input the committees have into the professional side of UR.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

I don't know how much input the committees have into the professional side of UR.

Well they clearly control the purse strings.

Edit: One would assume that Logan reports to them as well.

Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

I didn't realise this until Jaco said it, but this is what's running Ulster Rugby:

I don't understand your point. Can you clarify?

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

I don't understand your point. Can you clarify?

It's as far as possible from being professionally run.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I don't know how much input the committees have into the professional side of UR.

They think they have a big say, it may be that they're the ones being managed in that regard though

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They think they have a big say, it may be that they're the ones being managed in that regard though

But if the professional side are managing upwards to a bunch of committees, that's a massive amount of wasted effort.

awec

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well they clearly control the purse strings.

Edit: One would assume that Logan reports to them as well.

Logan presumably "reports" up to them but I do not think they have much say in the professional side of things. I doubt they are setting any sort of direction, I doubt they have any say in signings or coaching appointments.

The pro side of things, as far as I am aware, is mostly Kiss, Cunningham and Logan reporting up through Nucifora and the IRFU.

Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's as far as possible from being professionally run.

There is an equivalent committee in each of the other provinces. The people you're having a laugh at there are the people running the other 98% of rugby that isn't on TV, most of them are probably doing it on a voluntary basis.

Ulster have a full staff of professional people running the pro rugby side of things. They're listed here: http://www.ulsterrugby.com/branch/staff.php#.WlSNkHnLiUk

I know it's fashionable to have a dig at Ulster over everything these days, but that's completely wrong.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

There is an equivalent committee in each of the other provinces. The people you're having a laugh at there are the people running the other 98% of rugby that isn't on TV, most of them are probably doing it on a voluntary basis.

Ulster have a full staff of professional people running the pro rugby side of things. They're listed here: http://www.ulsterrugby.com/branch/staff.php#.WlSNkHnLiUk

I know it's fashionable to have a dig at Ulster over everything these days, but that's completely wrong.

Nah, things are run differently up there

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, things are run differently up there

I ain't gonna argue that...

Buer

I would have thought that only a very small number of people on that list have any involvement or say on Ulster Rugby overall in terms of the day to day operations. Those that do have a realistic input answer overall to the IRFU. Essentially those listed under "Management Committee" would be the bulk of it. The majority of them are just nods for past service and have no input.

Still a hell of a lot of padding there and a lot of surnames I recognise as people who are former players.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

There is an equivalent committee in each of the other provinces. The people you're having a laugh at there are the people running the other 98% of rugby that isn't on TV, most of them are probably doing it on a voluntary basis.

Ulster have a full staff of professional people running the pro rugby side of things. They're listed here: http://www.ulsterrugby.com/branch/staff.php#.WlSNkHnLiUk

I know it's fashionable to have a dig at Ulster over everything these days, but that's completely wrong.

Well if the other provinces have an equivalent setup, I've failed to find them.