Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

I would have thought that only a very small number of people on that list have any involvement or say on Ulster Rugby overall in terms of the day to day operations. Those that do have a realistic input answer overall to the IRFU. Essentially those listed under "Management Committee" would be the bulk of it. The majority of them are just nods for past service and have no input.

Still a hell of a lot of padding there and a lot of surnames I recognise as people who are former players.

According to the annual report, the development of Ravenspan was being attributed to one of the committees. Also youths, schools etc. are all run by committees.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

I would have thought that only a very small number of people on that list have any involvement or say on Ulster Rugby overall in terms of the day to day operations. Those that do have a realistic input answer overall to the IRFU. Essentially those listed under "Management Committee" would be the bulk of it. The majority of them are just nods for past service and have no input.

Still a hell of a lot of padding there and a lot of surnames I recognise as people who are former players.

I'm certain that some of these guys are involved in things such as interviewing coaches. I don't think there'd be any day-to-day involvement though. And yes, the guys on that committee would be them.... But it's a big ship to try to turn.

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well if the other provinces have an equivalent setup, I've failed to find them.

The Leinster branch handbook has all the committees involved in running the game. I'm not sure they're the old boys network that the Ulster committees appear to be but there's certainly a large number of committees and appointments.

From a Leinster Rugby perspective, the important ones are the Management Committee and the Professional Game Board (which Kevin McLaughlin is on, interestingly).

prawnsambo

Also flicking through the annual report and reading references to 'Clarky' and 'Doaky' made me cringe a little.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

The Leinster branch handbook has all the committees involved in running the game. I'm not sure they're the old boys network that the Ulster committees appear to be but there's certainly a large number of committees and appointments.

From a Leinster Rugby perspective, the important ones are the Management Committee and the Professional Game Board (which Kevin McLaughlin is on, interestingly).

A lot of the professional staff are on those committees too though. Guy Easterby, Mick Dawson, Leo Cullen etc.

I also notice that Eoin O'Malley is on one as well.

irishbucsfan

Jobs for the boys in Leinster obviously!

stephen_n

prawnsambo wrote: »

A lot of the professional staff are on those committees too though. Guy Easterby, Mick Dawson, Leo Cullen etc.

I also notice that Eoin O'Malley is on one as well.

The executive committee for the Leinster branch of the IRFU is made up of Alicadoos from the clubs, as are a lot of domestic committees. It’s hard to find lists of these as the Leinster site is sh!te. They are the equivalent of the Ulster ones you posted though. The board of management for the professional side is a separate entity, in theory answerable to them.

The difference seems to be, that the Leinster branch seem to have been very proactive in growing the game at youths level and expanding the game through out Leinster. From the outside it’s very hard to know if Ulster have attempted this, but it seems not going by what’s posted here.

Bogwoppit

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jobs for the boys in Leinster obviously!

Well it's obviously working!
And why shouldn't these guys get to be on the committees? They know the setup inside out and they've already committed a sizable chunk of their working life to the club.

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

That does sound like work is being done all right. Is there still a concern over the brain drain on those U18s guys do you know?

The prospect of University in G.B. is very appealing over an unpleasantly politicised student body in Queens.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Great lads though

How do you go about actually getting 3 initials before your name, do you have to put it on a business card or something? I actually have a relative on that list who only has the one initial, so I'll have to get on to him and see if we can get ourselves bumped up to two-initial status at least, I feel like the middle name is going to waste otherwise.

I have 3 initials before my surname.... not my fault.

Former Former wrote: »

There is an equivalent committee in each of the other provinces. The people you're having a laugh at there are the people running the other 98% of rugby that isn't on TV, most of them are probably doing it on a voluntary basis.

Ulster have a full staff of professional people running the pro rugby side of things. They're listed here: http://www.ulsterrugby.com/branch/staff.php#.WlSNkHnLiUk

I know it's fashionable to have a dig at Ulster over everything these days, but that's completely wrong.

It isn't. There is massive interference from quite a few of the old lags who seem to see Ulster Rugby as their own property. When Munster announced years ago that they were abandoning being run by committee, Ulster responded through Cecil Watson saying that they were continuing and would continue through the future to be run by the 'Committee' as this is how it's always been 'successfully done'. He was the guy who phoned Matt Williams in Singapore Airport, while he was en route to OZ, to tell him he was sacked. Now I'm not debating the rightness of the decision here. That is history. It is simply an indication of the type of arrogant behaviour that still pervades the committee structure at Ulster. That is no way to do business and is symptomatic of the malaise that pervades the place. The players are not immune from understanding what actually goes on.

prawnsambo

jacothelad wrote: »

It isn't. There is massive interference from quite a few of the old lags who seem to see Ulster Rugby as their own property. When Munster announced years ago that they were abandoning being run by committee, Ulster responded through Cecil Watson saying that they were continuing and would continue through the future to be run by the 'Committee' as this is how it's always been 'successfully done'. He was the guy who phoned Matt Williams in Singapore Airport, while he was en route to OZ, to tell him he was sacked. Now I'm not debating the rightness of the decision here. That is history. It is simply an indication of the type of arrogant behaviour that still pervades the committee structure at Ulster. That is no way to do business and is symptomatic of the malaise that pervades the place. The players are not immune from understanding what actually goes on.

Even at it's most benign, that structure can be a complete logjam or, as you point out above, a complete clusterfcuk.

awec

Payne has been removed from Ulster's European squad.

Not looking good for him.

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

Payne has been removed from Ulster's European squad.

Not looking good for him.

Where are those announced?

awec

errlloyd wrote: »

Where are those announced?

I don't think they are, just in-the-knows hear things.

McPhillips was added to the squad last week at the expense of Nelson. Not sure who is replacing Payne.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

Payne has been removed from Ulster's European squad.

Not looking good for him.

Still not processed. When/if he is it will show up here.

http://m.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/ulster_rugby.php?section=3

Buer

Unfortunately, I think Payne is in the same boat as Heaslip and we're never going to see him for Ireland or Ulster again. Crying shame and his career is one that just seems completely unfulfilled. He joined Ulster in 2011 and still only has 78 appearances for them in 7 seasons.

The Lost Sheep

prawnsambo wrote: »

But if the professional side are managing upwards to a bunch of committees, that's a massive amount of wasted effort.

That isnt what happens. In Ulster or in the other provinces

awec wrote: »

Logan presumably "reports" up to them but I do not think they have much say in the professional side of things. I doubt they are setting any sort of direction, I doubt they have any say in signings or coaching appointments.

The pro side of things, as far as I am aware, is mostly Kiss, Cunningham and Logan reporting up through Nucifora and the IRFU.

He doesnt report up to them. The main parts relevant to pro rugby are the management committee, trustees. Anything below branch committee is related to amateur rugby.

Buer wrote: »

I would have thought that only a very small number of people on that list have any involvement or say on Ulster Rugby overall in terms of the day to day operations. Those that do have a realistic input answer overall to the IRFU. Essentially those listed under "Management Committee" would be the bulk of it. The majority of them are just nods for past service and have no input.

Still a hell of a lot of padding there and a lot of surnames I recognise as people who are former players.

Yep but the majority are not nods for past service they are related to the management of the amateur game and its similar to other provinces

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well if the other provinces have an equivalent setup, I've failed to find them.

All on their websites https://munsterrugby.ie/domestic/about-us/branch-committees/

stephen_n wrote: »

The executive committee for the Leinster branch of the IRFU is made up of Alicadoos from the clubs, as are a lot of domestic committees. It’s hard to find lists of these as the Leinster site is sh!te. They are the equivalent of the Ulster ones you posted though. The board of management for the professional side is a separate entity, in theory answerable to them.

The difference seems to be, that the Leinster branch seem to have been very proactive in growing the game at youths level and expanding the game through out Leinster. From the outside it’s very hard to know if Ulster have attempted this, but it seems not going by what’s posted here.

I wouldnt say alickadoos from clubs.
Ulster would be quite different from other provinces in terms of growing game. Getting rugby in some schools would be more difficult than elsewhere in country

bilston

Real shame for Payne but I think the writing is on the wall.

So next season we likely lose Jackson, Olding, Payne and Piutau and you'd have serious doubts over Trimble and Bowe...and to think we thought we had a problem up front...

prawnsambo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He doesnt report up to them. The main parts relevant to pro rugby are the management committee, trustees. Anything below branch committee is related to amateur rugby.

So how are they relevant to Pro rugby if the CEO doesn't report to them?

awec

BelTel are saying the 10 is not Giteau.

Buer

awec wrote: »

BelTel are saying the 10 is not Giteau.

Good. That means they're not spending a silly amount of cash. There are a few outhalves available in Japan who can provide a steady enough option without costing the funny money that Giteau would want.

Berrick Barnes would be an interesting one but he wouldn't come cheap either and I imagine he's minding himself a little big these days. He is still young enough though to be a top class operator if his game hasn't dulled at all in Japan.

irishbucsfan

Berrick Barnes would be the dream. I'm sure he'd come with some promises of minding his game time which means Ulster would use some young lads as well.

awec

Funnily enough I saw his name elsewhere this morning but it wasn't from someone I'd have previously thought of as an ITK so I paid no attention.

bilston

I thought some of the cryptic (or not so cryptic) clues on uafc were hinting at Barnes.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I thought some of the cryptic (or not so cryptic) clues on uafc were hinting at Barnes.

They were. The comeback starts here.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006

The Indo is saying it's Stephen Donald.

irishbucsfan

There'll be some very unhappy campers if it's Donald

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Indo is saying it's Stephen Donald.

Any man who single handedly wins his country the WC is good enough for me

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There'll be some very unhappy campers if it's Donald

I can't say I'd be jumping for joy, I just hope McPhillips gets a decent run of games as well.

It seems like a very short terms approach which is in keeping with so much that happens at Ulster Rugby IMO

awec

Realistically all we need is someone to keep us ticking over and ensure euro qualification. We aren't going to be challenging for any silverware so top talent isn't required.

Someone who McPhillips can deputise for will do.