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Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

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    #152
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    JenovaProject wrote: »
    Leave the crib.
    Add any other religious symbols to it to keep all sides happy.
    The militant Atheists can go and sh1te.

    Why take something away that gives joy to others?
    Add more to give joy to more!

    Its doing nobody any harm.

    Oh yeah they should do all that in the hospital chapel. Why do they need it in the rat of the hospital? When you go to a rugby match do you want all the religions represented? Why a hospital and why outside the hospital chapel?


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    #153
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Sorry, but what has people killed by communist regimes to do with anything?

    And has anyone on this thread claimed all wars were caused by religion?

    Bayhla 17 on Page 6


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    #154
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    splinter65 wrote: »
    A lot of scientists don’t come to the conclusion that there’s too many coincidences for there not to be a “higher power”?
    You know there is though, will I post links even though you can find them yourself?

    Yeah normally it's expected that the person making assertions provides some sort of evidence...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #155
    JenovaProject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭JenovaProject


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh yeah they should do all that in the hospital chapel. Why do they need it in the rat of the hospital? When you go to a rugby match do you want all the religions represented? Why a hospital and why outside the hospital chapel?

    Relax.
    It's Christmas
    Don't be so offended over a crib.
    It's doing nobody any harm.
    Oh and rugby is sh1te.


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    #156
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I’m saying the religious stuff should stay in the chapel. I’m not suggesting religious people should stay in the chapel. It’s not segregation at all. All the religions can do what they like in the chapel in the hospital. Isn’t that enough pandering to religious people? Maybe use the rest of the hospital for dealing with sick people.

    Obviously the religious can be as religious as they like without expecting everyone else to play along.

    So there’s no threat to my enlightenment in wanting the religious to confine religious decorations to the chapel.

    The cribs not taking up any space, it’s not in anyone’s way, no one is going without anything in the hospital in order to have the crib there. The chaplaincy look after the crib and store it for the 50 weeks it’s not on view. No money is taken from the hospital budget to facilitate the crib. No one that is associated with the crib has prevented anyone with any other religious belief from displaying any other religious iconography.
    Apart from it offending your sensibilities in some way, what is your specific objection to the crib?


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    #157
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Bayhla 17 on Page 6

    Nope.
    Such is the delusion that has led to some of the worst crimes against humanity ever comitted being defended

    What has the crimes of communist regimes to do with anything?


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    #158
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    splinter65 wrote: »
    They were only giving communion to the Catholics. Did you not want the bedridden Catholics to get communion?

    It was a free for all, offering it to everyone. Most people said no. Another thing that surprised me when I went in is that they asked me my religion and I said atheist for the first time ever as I've never being asked that in my lifetime bar filling out a census.

    Should they be allowed to ask you that question?


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    #159
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    [IMG
    Itzayana Enough Floor wrote: »
    Then I'll pray for you too.

    437046.jpeg

    MrP


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    #160
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Odhinn wrote: »
    Sorry, but what has people killed by communist regimes to do with anything?

    And has anyone on this thread claimed all wars were caused by religion?

    Bayhla 17 on Page 6
    More childish lies which is why you cannot provide a quote by me to that effect.


  • Options
    #161
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    JenovaProject wrote: »
    Relax.
    It's Christmas
    Don't be so offended over a crib.
    It's doing nobody any harm.
    Oh and rugby is sh1te.

    Ha, I think you’ll find this thread is venting the outrage of people who got upset about the absence of a crib. Conservative virtue signalling


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    #162
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    splinter65 wrote: »
    The cribs not taking up any space, it’s not in anyone’s way, no one is going without anything in the hospital in order to have the crib there. The chaplaincy look after the crib and store it for the 50 weeks it’s not on view. No money is taken from the hospital budget to facilitate the crib. No one that is associated with the crib has prevented anyone with any other religious belief from displaying any other religious iconography.
    Apart from it offending your sensibilities in some way, what is your specific objection to the crib?

    I have no objection to anything the religious get up to in chapel. Outside the chapel is out of place. Simple as that.

    How does a crib’s absence upset you?


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    #163
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    RasTa wrote: »
    It was a free for all, offering it to everyone. Most people said no. Another thing that surprised me when I went in is that they asked me my religion and I said atheist for the first time ever as I've never being asked that in my lifetime bar filling out a census.

    Should they be allowed to ask you that question?

    Yes. To see if you want a priest coming around.


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    #164
    JenovaProject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭JenovaProject


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ha, I think you’ll find this thread is venting the outrage of people who got upset about the absence of a crib. Conservative virtue signalling

    Nah.Youre coming across as pretty outraged over the crib being in the foyer instead of hidden away in the chapel.
    I think it should have been left as is and somebody else was outraged enough to complain.Little to be doing with their lives complaining about a harmless crib.
    Anyway...Happy Christmas.


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    #165
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    RasTa wrote: »
    It was a free for all, offering it to everyone. Most people said no. Another thing that surprised me when I went in is that they asked me my religion and I said atheist for the first time ever as I've never being asked that in my lifetime bar filling out a census.

    Should they be allowed to ask you that question?

    They ask you that in case you start dying and you want some paedo in a dress to visit you and start saying some voodoo nonsense to you so you won't go to eternal damnation.




    But Jesus loves you.


    Mod-Banned


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    #166
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    There's plenty of Islamic countries for those who are offended by Christmas maybe they should all move to one of them.


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    #167
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    All the world’s religions have things that are beautiful from a purely atheistic perspective. While Christianity doesn’t score highly in that regard, the image of the crib is a nice one. Not for the religious aspects but for he symbol of a family. Parents, newborn child, visitors and strangers bearing gifts. All in humble surrounds underneath a starry sky.

    To be offended by it or to have it removed from building such as hospitals etc is just sad and representative of an intolerant society. I’d hate to think that this is how we end up.

    You don’t have to be Christian to appreciate the image of the crib

    You don’t have to be a Buddhist to have a laughing Buddha statue on your mantal.

    You don’t have to be Hindu to share food with Hindus during Diwali.

    You don’t have to be wicked to enjoy a wicken bonfire at Harvest end.

    You don’t have to be a Scientologist to enjoy an L. Ron Hubbard book or movie.

    Unless of course you’re shoving your religious views down someone’s throat. Screw those guys


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    #168
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    If I was in a Jewish or Muslim hospital, I wouldn't be offended by a menorah or prayer mats.

    The vast majority of people on this planet believe in a deity.

    Let's see how hard an atheist prays if their plane is about to crash. If there is no God, they shouldn't be too bothered.


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    #169
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ha, I think you’ll find this thread is venting the outrage of people who got upset about the absence of a crib. Conservative virtue signalling

    Oh there’s far more outrage about the idea of a crib which might give some succour to the sick. A crib.

    Sad.


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    #170
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    They ask you that in case you start dying and you want some paedo in a dress to visit you and start saying some voodoo nonsense to you so you won't go to eternal damnation.




    But Jesus loves you.

    You come across as nice and rational.


  • Options
    #171
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    JenovaProject wrote: »

    Nah.Youre coming across as pretty outraged over the crib being in the foyer instead of hidden away in the chapel.
    I think it should have been left as is and somebody else was outraged enough to complain.Little to be doing with their lives complaining about a harmless crib.
    Anyway...Happy Christmas.

    Hidden away in the designated religion room? It’s only hidden away if you don’t care enough about religion to go to the chapel to see it, in which case what’s the problem?

    I don’t know why but nothing should change... end of argument.
    Yep, conservative virtue signaling.


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    #172
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    server down wrote: »

    Oh there’s far more outrage about the idea of a crib which might give some succour to the sick. A crib.

    Sad.

    The crib in the chapel? I don’t think there’s any objection to that


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    #173
    JenovaProject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭JenovaProject


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yep, conservative virtue signaling.


    Happy Christmas.
    Hope you don't stumble upon a crib in case you explode in rage because of an iconic Christmas nativity scene in an Irish hospital.
    Sad.Really sad and this comment of yours just shows how sad.
    Virtue signalling...i feel sorry for you.
    Happy Christmas...no offence.


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    #174
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Mutant z wrote: »
    There's plenty of Islamic countries for those who are offended by Christmas maybe they should all move to one of them.
    maybe just make Ireland more muslim or Jewish or Hindu
    then people wouldn't be as offended by a crib!

    or offended by people's opinion that displays of religion should be kept in the hospital chapel (where it belongs)


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    #175
    JenovaProject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭JenovaProject


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    maybe just make Ireland more muslim or Jewish or Hindu
    then people wouldn't be as offended by a crib!

    or offended by people's opinion that displays of religion should be kept in the hospital chapel (where it belongs)

    Or maybe just leave the crib where it was and if any Muslim Jewish or a.n. other faith would like their own religious symbol displayed they could be accommodated also.
    IMO id doubt it was a person of a different faith who complained about the crib,more likely an ex-catholic Irish atheist.


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    #176
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Though I agree with the rest FM this...
    faceman wrote: »
    All the world’s religions have things that are beautiful from a purely atheistic perspective. While Christianity doesn’t score highly in that regard,
    Christianity has one of the deepest veins of art in world history. And certainly the most changing and evolving.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Options
    #177
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,419 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    JenovaProject wrote: »
    Or maybe just leave the crib where it was and if any Muslim Jewish or a.n. other faith would like their own religious symbol displayed they could be accommodated also.
    IMO id doubt it was a person of a different faith who complained about the crib,more likely an ex-catholic Irish atheist.

    Doubt it. We really don’t give a rats ass what people display for Xmas be it a Santa clause or a crib. If people are happy with it then who am I to complain about it.
    What they should have done was
    “We’ve reviewed your complaint and basically you can sod right off,
    If it offends you that much take Xmas off without pay.”


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    #178
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Though I agree with the rest FM this...

    Christianity has one of the deepest veins of art in world history. And certainly the most changing and evolving.

    Yeah I've being to the Taj Mahal, Angkor Wat but my favourite was stepping inside La Sagrada Familia


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    #179
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭tigger123


    I believe in the separation of church and state, so don't think cribs should be in wards and hospitals. For me there's a direct link between allowing the soft side of religion into public spaces like this (where it permeates wider culture) and the arguments against SSM and repealing the 8th amendment (which, traditionally, religion stands against).


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    #180
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I have no objection to anything the religious get up to in chapel. Outside the chapel is out of place. Simple as that.

    How does a crib’s absence upset you?

    It bothers me because in my view it's not just about religion, Christmas is a deeply ingrained cultural as well as religious tradition for anyone who grew up in Ireland in the twentieth century, so to demand that this be hidden away is essentially demanding that culture be sanitised.

    Let me put this another way - St Patrick's Day is very clearly a religious ceremony, St Patrick was a religious icon whose entire claim to fame is how he managed to explain Christianity to the Irish using the shamrock as a metaphor. Should we therefore not have anything to do with St Patrick's Day in public? No parades? No shamrocks? No grand, public celebrations? Should the walls of our hospitals be entirely free from St Patrick's Day related cheer for those unfortunate enough to be stuck in hospital away from the craic?

    And think this through even further - what about children's wards and children's hospitals? Should those kids who are facing the awful prospect of spending Christmas Day in hospital (I've done this in the past as a teenager, it's not fun) be denied any Christmas cheer at all? None of the familiarity of a Christmas Tree, decorations, cribs, carols etc - just because it might offend some absolute buzzkill gobsh!tes?

    People who are thinking about this from a purely religious standpoint and ignoring the huge psychological and cultural conditioning people who have grown up in Ireland have about Christmas are being ridiculous. It's not about religion, it's about the familiarity of "home". Christmas is part of that, and nowhere is that more desperately important than in the otherwise bleak and depressing environment of a building full of sick, injured, and dying people.


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    #181
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    RasTa wrote: »
    It was a free for all, offering it to everyone. Most people said no. Another thing that surprised me when I went in is that they asked me my religion and I said atheist for the first time ever as I've never being asked that in my lifetime bar filling out a census.

    Should they be allowed to ask you that question?

    Don’t you think your being terribly precious? Someone stuck their head in at you and asked you if you wanted communion. You said no. They then followed that up by asking if you had a belief. You answered. I assume they then moved on.
    Is it that you were frightened? Disturbed? Offended?
    Honestly, can you not see how ridiculous it sounds “should they be allowed to ask you that”?
    Do you go to work? Do you live away from home?
    Life is kinda full of interaction with other humans.
    If your going to need prior notice of being spoken too, plus time to consider wether or not this person should be “allowed” to speak to you, your going to find life pretty difficult.


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