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Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

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12357…21

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    #122
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭tigger123


    server down wrote: »
    Look if you are the kind of orange order fanatic who hates cribs because they are catholic why not pretend they are Protestant cribs and you’d feel better about yourself?

    Are cribs a catholic thing?!


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    #123
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    JenovaProject wrote: »
    Leave the crib.
    Add any other religious symbols to it to keep all sides happy.
    The militant Atheists can go and sh1te.

    Why take something away that gives joy to others?
    Add more to give joy to more!

    Its doing nobody any harm.

    As a devout follower of the holy church of the flying spaghetti monster I would like to say that I 100% agree with this.
    It's feckin Christmas, it's a feckin crib. It will do absolutely feck all to you, if you are offended, I suggest you go to the shop and buy yourself some tampons for your massive vagina.


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    #124
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Em no. I'm actually just asking because I'm curious on the thought process of believers. If you can give me an answer, fire away.

    I dunno Omackeral. Nobody knows.
    Do you ever ask yourself why so many scientists, in particular biologists, become Christians in their 50s, even with all they have seen and read?
    I know that just as role of faith puzzle over the “why do bad things happen to good people” thing, many atheists are confounded by the amount of scientists who believe?
    How do you explain it?


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    #125
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Are Christmas and the crib not Christian things? Not just the preserve of the Catholic church.

    I'm not religious and don't go into churches unless I have to. But the outrage over a stupid crib gets my goat. These people should get over themselves and stop looking for things to get offended by. Because if you want to go the whole hog, you might as well get rid of Christmas. Picket outside every shop that dares to sell Christmas related products, be it cribs or trees or Christmas jumpers. Get outraged over St. Patrick's Day because, after all, it is celebrating the saint who helped bring Christianity to Ireland. Easter'll have to go too because again, it's a Christian thing and all Christian things are bad.


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    #126
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Christmas in Ireland is so deeply ingrained as a cultural tradition that it transcends religion in my opinion. I know plenty of Atheists and even anti-theists (IE, not just "God doesn't exist" but "Religion is harmful and should be opposed" types) who still partake of Christmas festivities with religious aspects, such as carol services, religious themed decorations, even sometimes midnight mass. Not because they're religious, but because it's part of their cultural heritage, brings them nostalgic memories of their youth, and strengthens the feeling of communal festive spirit.

    In this vein, removing cribs etc in my view is not merely a secularist action - it's also a frankly moronic attempt to deny Ireland's cultural heritage. Like it or not, religious themes have always been part of Irish public life, so to many people, religious or not, these themes are simply part of that intangible, warm, fuzzy feeling of "home".

    Given that this particular incident involves a hospital environment with old and sick people, in this particular case as far as I'm concerned it goes beyond moronic and veers into the territory of pointless, heartless cruelty. And anyone who's familiar with my posts on AH will know that I'm a diehard secularist myself as far as rules, laws, and cultural norms go - iconography is different, because like it or not, if you grew up in Ireland during the twentieth century, some amount of religious iconography of this kind is as much part of your cultural identity as an Irish person as it is a purely religious thing.


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    #127
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Army_of_One wrote: »
    No.

    Seriously.


    Think about it.

    A virgin birth(2000 yrs before IVF) of a women with a wood cutter. The son goes on to make the biggest capitalist discovery ever(turning water into wine, $$$$$) and then dies.Gets re-animated as a corpse 3 days later and causes mayhem for 100's and 100's of years.

    Fast forward to now and those same believers belong to an organistation thats actively protected child abusers and facilitaed that abuse.

    BTW the 24th/25th celebrate older gods than yours.

    No.

    Seriously.


    Think about it.

    What did you get for Christmas?


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    #128
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Army_of_One wrote: »
    A virgin birth(2000 yrs before IVF) of a women with a wood cutter. The son goes on to make the biggest capitalist discovery ever(turning water into wine, $$$$$) and then dies.Gets re-animated as a corpse 3 days later and causes mayhem for 100's and 100's of years.

    Still a better love story than Twilight


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    #129
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Army_of_One wrote:
    I really don't think pandering to delusional adults is the way to go.

    **** you


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    #130
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Christmas in Ireland is so deeply ingrained as a cultural tradition that it transcends religion in my opinion. I know plenty of Atheists and even anti-theists (IE, not just "God doesn't exist" but "Religion is harmful and should be opposed" types) who still partake of Christmas festivities with religious aspects, such as carol services, religious themed decorations, even sometimes midnight mass. Not because they're religious, but because it's part of their cultural heritage, brings them nostalgic memories of their youth, and strengthens the feeling of communal festive spirit.

    In this vein, removing cribs etc in my view is not merely a secularist action - it's also a frankly moronic attempt to deny Ireland's cultural heritage. Like it or not, religious themes have always been part of Irish public life, so to many people, religious or not, these themes are simply part of that intangible, warm, fuzzy feeling of "home".

    Given that this particular incident involves a hospital environment with old and sick people, in this particular case as far as I'm concerned it goes beyond moronic and veers into the territory of pointless, heartless cruelty. And anyone who's familiar with my posts on AH will know that I'm a diehard secularist myself as far as rules, laws, and cultural norms go - iconography is different, because like it or not, if you grew up in Ireland during the twentieth century, some amount of religious iconography of this kind is as much part of your cultural identity as an Irish person as it is a purely religious thing.

    I think most of the morons are the young immature type, just give them the benefit of the doubt.


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    #131
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    One would’ve thought that religion has done enough to damage to this country down the years, but no, it’s not enough for the religious extremists. Constantly wanting to push their agenda in public places.

    It’s a crib. If that upsets you, you are the fanatic. Cribs, Muslim prayer rooms, chapels - all good ideas.


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    #132
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,146 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’d be delighted to see religious symbols of all kinds all over all public buildings.
    I can’t see how people of no belief can be offended by something they don’t recognise.
    It doesn’t make sense to me.

    Would you be happy to have swastikas all over our public buildings? It's an ancient religious symbol after all...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #133
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    All those who are hot and bothered about christmas symbols being displayed during christmas time know where the door is then why not use it and leave the rest of the country celebrate Christmas in peace, this country won't be held to ransom by anyone just because it offends particular sensitivities we celebrate Christmas in this country always have done and always will do so those of you who don't like that can go take a hike and leave us the hell alone.


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    #134
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Jerichoholic wrote: »
    Christmas decorations are religious symbols, should be Christmas be banned?

    This is a difficult touchy subject for militant atheists.


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    #135
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Are cribs a catholic thing?!

    No. That was my point. They’re a Christian thing.

    These new atheists are more or less mining a deep anti catholic position driven by Protestant fanaticism. The idea that the greatest crimes in history were caused by the Catholic Church rather than by capitalism, communism, British imperialism etc


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    #136
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Omackeral wrote:
    Why would god create cancer though? Not being edgy, just wondering the thought process.

    **** you

    Mod-Banned


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    #137
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Hotblack Desiato wrote:
    Would you be happy to have swastikas all over our public buildings? It's an ancient religious symbol after all...


    **** you I will find you


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    #138
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    splinter65 wrote: »
    This is a difficult touchy subject for militant atheists.

    Something something Saturnalia (never celebrated in Ireland which was never conquered by Rome). Also Mithras.


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    #139
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,146 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Do you ever ask yourself why so many scientists, in particular biologists, become Christians in their 50s, even with all they have seen and read?

    This is bullshit.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #140
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Hotblack Desiato wrote:
    This is bull****.

    I will find you too


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    #141
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    server down wrote: »
    No. That was my point. They’re a Christian thing.

    These new atheists are more or less mining a deep anti catholic position driven by Protestant fanaticism. The idea that the greatest crimes in history were caused by the Catholic Church rather than by capitalism, communism, British imperialism etc

    Your position about them being driven by Protestantism is not something I’d ever considered before.
    It’s an interesting theory.
    The anti theist insistence on Ignoring the 60 million people murdered in communist purges in the 20th century is what fascinates me.
    It’s like:
    Atheist : “all wars are caused by religion, all these dead people, damn you religion...”
    Anyone else:”Khmer rouge “
    Atheist : “nothing to see here, move away please..”


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    #142
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    This is bullshit.

    A lot of scientists don’t come to the conclusion that there’s too many coincidences for there not to be a “higher power”?
    You know there is though, will I post links even though you can find them yourself?


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    #143
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Your position about them being driven by Protestantism is not something I’d ever considered before.
    It’s an interesting theory.
    The anti theist insistence on Ignoring the 60 million people murdered in communist purges in the 20th century is what fascinates me.
    It’s like:
    Atheist : “all wars are caused by religion, all these dead people, damn you religion...”
    Anyone else:”Khmer rouge “
    Atheist : “nothing to see here, move away please..”

    Sorry, but what has people killed by communist regimes to do with anything?

    And has anyone on this thread claimed all wars were caused by religion?


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    #144
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    It's a good job the crib will be coming down in less than a fortnight's time. Such indignation can't be good for anyone. It'll also give people time to get revved up for anger at St. Patrick and all he stands for.


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    #145
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    mtv are to blame for all this talk about cribs...

    anyway, secular blessings to everyone


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    #146
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Ursus Horribilis wrote: »
    It's a good job the crib will be coming down in less than a fortnight's time. Such indignation can't be good for anyone. It'll also give people time to get revved up for anger at St. Patrick and all he stands for.

    Sure he's not even Irish!!!


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    #147
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Ursus Horribilis wrote:
    It's a good job the crib will be coming down in less than a fortnight's time. Such indignation can't be good for anyone. It'll also give people time to get revved up for anger at St. Patrick and all he stands for.

    Thanks Ursus


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    #148
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Jerichoholic wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    They can go to the chapel if they’re looking for religious symbolism. It’s not being banned from the hospital, it’s still in the chapel. Should we have displays for all religious festivals of all kinds throughout the hospital? Or maybe the religious should decorate the chapel however they like and leave the rest of the hospital alone.

    Christmas decorations are religious symbols, should be Christmas be banned?

    As I said in the paragraph you quoted, it’s not being banned. It’s in the chapel which is in the hospital all the time. And I’m not saying it should be banned. Religion should be kept in the chapel though.


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    #149
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Should they ban cribs from town centres too? Just in case people who are being taken to hospital spot such abominations en route and suffer advance outrage?


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    #150
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-owenybaloney when you get back from your ban do not post again. Reason- Read any of his last 4 posts and it'll be obvious.


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    #151
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    That's segregation El_Duderino surely some one as enlighted as you wouldn't want that in a secular society.
    I’m saying the religious stuff should stay in the chapel. I’m not suggesting religious people should stay in the chapel. It’s not segregation at all. All the religions can do what they like in the chapel in the hospital. Isn’t that enough pandering to religious people? Maybe use the rest of the hospital for dealing with sick people.

    Obviously the religious can be as religious as they like without expecting everyone else to play along.

    So there’s no threat to my enlightenment in wanting the religious to confine religious decorations to the chapel.


This discussion has been closed.
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