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Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    This latest attempt to conflate club population with county (!) population - never even mind town population - is laughable.

    Many (most? all?) clubs would rather a sinkhole opened up and swallowed the pitch of their nearest neighbours than to be on hand to watch them achieve their finest hour. If Stacks were in the Munster final I'd rather go to Gallarus to be beaten with thistles than to go to see it in case they won - we have people here so divorced from the reality of the GAA they think we should be embarrassed that the whole county don't turn out to support our local heroes :pac:

    Mother of god


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    The fairer comparison is probably between Ireland and Scotland.

    A comparison where the GAA fares even worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    A good example on population basis is Dublin's league attendances. They average around 25,000 in divisional series. This in a city where there is almost never a counter attraction than the odd rugby game in Aviva or RDS. That is poor enough for a city of its size. Same applies to Cork where home league games average around 7,000 and Cork city around 4,000. Belfast is hardly worth even discussing, support for all sports being abysmal for a city of its size. So I would agree with Max that we are not a great bunch for going to live sports.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    A good example on population basis is Dublin's league attendances. They average around 25,000 in divisional series. This in a city where there is almost never a counter attraction than the odd rugby game in Aviva or RDS. That is poor enough for a city of its size. Same applies to Cork where home league games average around 7,000 and Cork city around 4,000. Belfast is hardly worth even discussing, support for all sports being abysmal for a city of its size. So I would agree with Max that we are not a great bunch for going to live sports.

    Wat?

    This started off with Max saying 'GAA supporters are nowhere near as good as they claim to be'.

    It has now somehow morphed into 'GAA supporters don't make up a large proportion of the population of large urban centres'.

    The people who are not interested in or associated with the GAA are not interested in it or associated with it, are not its supporters and presumably don't spend any time claiming to be 'good'.

    GAA people are by and large unbelievably dedicated, should be and are rightly lauded for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The fairer comparison is probably between Ireland and Scotland.

    A comparison where the GAA fares even worse.

    Elgin City
    Population 23K

    Average Attendance 629

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin,_Moray

    http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Is there somewhere we can look up GAA club attendances to compare?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Wat?

    This started off with Max saying 'GAA supporters are nowhere near as good as they claim to be'.

    It has now somehow morphed into 'GAA supporters don't make up a large proportion of the population of large urban centres'.

    The people who are not interested in or associated with the GAA are not interested in it or associated with it, are not its supporters and presumably don't spend any time claiming to be 'good'.

    GAA people are by and large unbelievably dedicated, should be and are rightly lauded for it.


    Irish people are poor attenders of ALL sports. There can hardly be a worse attended premier soccer league than the LOI! Actual club rugby here - as opposed to the four professional teams - is abysmal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Irish people are poor attenders of ALL sports. There can hardly be a worse attended premier soccer league than the LOI! Actual club rugby here - as opposed to the four professional teams - is abysmal.

    I'm not at all convinced this applies to GAA.

    I've been at very few club matches in my life where the attendance was in man and dog territory. Maybe this is the case in very low league matches in places like Dublin and Cork where the base in transient, but I would guess club membership to club attendance across the board in GAA is good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Is there somewhere we can look up GAA club attendances to compare?

    Beyond inter county games I don't think there is because the task of head counting is up to the local clubs or organisations themselves

    On a quick search regarding Kerry attendances the only non senior inter-county stat I could find was this one saying that there was 1,631 at the U-17 Munster final in 2017 on a Tuesday evening in spring/early summer.

    http://sportsmanager.ie/cake/gaa2/kgf/news/10024332/p_r_o_g_a_a_scene24th_may2017

    For anyone who does not know the U-17 grade is replacing the U-18 "minor" grade in 2018, and in 2017 both U-17 and U-18 competitions were run with the U-18 being the more high profile


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Irish people are poor attenders of ALL sports. There can hardly be a worse attended premier soccer league than the LOI! Actual club rugby here - as opposed to the four professional teams - is abysmal.

    Heres a couple of tables with attendances per capita, they are interesting in that while bad, the Irish attendances arent as bad as one might think.

    http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4729
    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/04/02/revealed-the-most-dedicated-football-nations-the-faroes-iceland-cyprus-scotland-and-england-020403/

    2017 attendances on the up:

    http://www.extratime.ie/articles/19545/league-of-ireland-attendances-2017
    the-story-so-far/

    You'd think with GAA being so popular someone would be recording this stuff for that sport. Is there a cost for non-members to attend club GAA games? Surely the clubs need the numbers to report to revenue?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Heres a couple of tables with attendances per capita, they are interesting in that while bad, the Irish attendances arent as bad as one might think.

    http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4729
    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/04/02/revealed-the-most-dedicated-football-nations-the-faroes-iceland-cyprus-scotland-and-england-020403/

    2017 attendances on the up:

    http://www.extratime.ie/articles/19545/league-of-ireland-attendances-2017
    the-story-so-far/

    You'd think with GAA being so popular someone would be recording this stuff for that sport. Is there a cost for non-members to attend club GAA games? Surely the clubs need the numbers to report to revenue?


    County boards are responsible for all revenue at championship, which are only ones which are charged in to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    You'd think with GAA being so popular someone would be recording this stuff for that sport. Is there a cost for non-members to attend club GAA games? Surely the clubs need the numbers to report to revenue?

    This is well down the list of mind-boggling things the GAA don't keep stats on.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find an exhaustive list of All Ireland senior intercounty medal winners.

    Most adult games would have some charge on the gate, I don't doubt that the revenue reporting aspect of this has something to do with a lack of public attendance figures. The revenue do perform audits on clubs, although I don't really know how common that is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭EICVD


    Mayo deserve an All Ireland, now that’s an unpopular GAA opinion in my view. If they’re good enough on the day of a final they’ll deserve it. This they deserve it because every year they come back talk is BS, surely Wicklow, Leitrim etc also ‘deserve’ it because every year they come back, play 2 games & lose 2 games.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Heres a couple of tables with attendances per capita, they are interesting in that while bad, the Irish attendances arent as bad as one might think.

    http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4729
    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/04/02/revealed-the-most-dedicated-football-nations-the-faroes-iceland-cyprus-scotland-and-england-020403/

    2017 attendances on the up:

    http://www.extratime.ie/articles/19545/league-of-ireland-attendances-2017
    the-story-so-far/

    You'd think with GAA being so popular someone would be recording this stuff for that sport. Is there a cost for non-members to attend club GAA games? Surely the clubs need the numbers to report to revenue?

    Well I'm sure they are being recorded at individual club, county and provincial level, but they are not necessarily published on the internet for you or I to search for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    According to the Irish stats for 2017 home match attendance for premier league on average is 21,795 - a good bit lower than the international table. Averages for Cork and Rovers are just over 4,000 and 3000 respectively. Again, significantly lower.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That the clubs are tiny and have little support is kind of the original point. Clubs in other sports in similar sized areas elsewhere in Europe draw larger crowds across a much longer season (see basketball, handball, hockey etc). Admitting this is the unpopular opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    That the clubs are tiny and have little support is kind of the original point. Clubs in other sports in similar sized areas elsewhere in Europe draw larger crowds across a much longer season (see basketball, handball, hockey etc). Admitting this is the unpopular opinion.

    It is not unpopular to say that people who aren't into GAA aren't into GAA.

    The clubs are the size they are because of the amount of them per population. The people who are involved with each club tend to be very dedicated on average. The people who aren't interested or involved are neither interested nor involved, nor claiming to be 'good' GAA supporters for the most part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Dont think anyone doubts the dedication of GAA members and volunteers, there are cults and militias with less zeal in their memberships.

    GAA sports arent particularly well attended though, like many sports in Ireland it suffers from event-junkie-itis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    A quick look suggests roughly 2200 GAA clubs on the island, population around 6.5 million, so a club for every ~3k people.

    Apparently 5300 Association football clubs which presumably covers England and Wales with a population of ~56 million.

    I guess that suggests you would expect the average GAA club to be a lot smaller than the average soccer club even adjusting for catchment area sizes. It's a GAA club for every ~3k people on the island of Ireland, a soccer club for every ~10.5k people in England and Wales, which is an enormous difference.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Dont think anyone doubts the dedication of GAA members and volunteers, there are cults and militias with less zeal in their memberships.

    GAA sports arent particularly well attended though, like many sports in Ireland it suffers from event-junkie-itis.

    I don't think this has been proven very well tbh.

    Stats here show inter county GAA compares favourably with major sports leagues around the world:

    https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-attendances-ranked-top-sports-around-world-124430

    Club figures are not easy to come by but nothing in this thread has been particularly convincing that matches aren't well attended compared to other sports. If we compare the number of people going to watch soccer in Crewe on an average weekend to the number of people going to watch GAA in, say, Cavan I doubt we'd have much to be embarrassed about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    There are another 5000 clubs below the football pyramid (Sunday League) in England alone I think.

    Comparing the GAA Championship to other sports' regular season attendances doesn't make much sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    There are another 5000 clubs below the football pyramid (Sunday League) in England alone I think.

    Comparing the GAA Championship to other sports' regular season attendances doesn't make much sense.

    This whole conversation started out making no sense and went downhill soon afterwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    keane2097 wrote: »
    I don't think this has been proven very well tbh.

    Stats here show inter county GAA compares favourably with major sports leagues around the world:

    https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-attendances-ranked-top-sports-around-world-124430

    Club figures are not easy to come by but nothing in this thread has been particularly convincing that matches aren't well attended compared to other sports. If we compare the number of people going to watch soccer in Crewe on an average weekend to the number of people going to watch GAA in, say, Cavan I doubt we'd have much to be embarrassed about.
    The original point was that because CP only gets 80K a few times a year then GAA fans are in the most part event junkies.
    But if you look at the GAA I think you will find that the opposite is actually the case, support is concentrated at a very local level rather than anything else.

    For rugby , and to a much lesser extent soccer, it's pure event junkie culture


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    The original point was that because CP only gets 80K a few times a year then GAA fans are in the most part event junkies.
    But if you look at the GAA I think you will find that the opposite is actually the case, support is concentrated at a very local level rather than anything else.

    For rugby , and to a much lesser extent soccer, it's pure event junkie culture

    Hard to agree or disagree if nobody bothers to record or publish attendances.

    I think the Ireland international football team caters perfectly to our football event junkies, how many will they get for the next friendly as opposed to the numbers who would have travelled for the world cup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    The original point was that because CP only gets 80K a few times a year then GAA fans are in the most part event junkies.
    But if you look at the GAA I think you will find that the opposite is actually the case, support is concentrated at a very local level rather than anything else.

    For rugby , and to a much lesser extent soccer, it's pure event junkie culture

    In fact, it's an annual criticism levelled at the GAA that instead of making all tickets for All Ireland finals available to day trippers from the two counties involved that instead tickets are given to each and every club in the country in order that all those who work at the grass roots around the country have a chance to attend the showpiece event in the calendar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Dublin and Mayo get big crowds all the year around and tickets are allocated strictly to club members and season ticket and county pass holders, so don't think either fit into the "event junkies" category. Lots of that type are hangers on from non participating counties who "know someone."


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Skelp


    Christ on a bike.....how can anyone even suggest that GAA supporters are somehow better attendees than English soccer fans is beyond unbelievable even taking the population into account.

    The Munster Hurling championship which is one of the if not the best competitions organised by the GAA is being run on a round robin basis next year. There is considerable worry that crowds will be down as supporters will suffer from fatigue and too many games etc. I mean its a four game round robin with two away and two home at the very best time time of the year to watch sport. Imagine if it was a 46 game season through the winter like they have across the water. The GAA fans would be stretched off with fatigue by October.:D

    The club argument is a complete red herring. Do you not think they have the equivalent of underage/minor/u21/junior/intermediate competitions in England?
    Even if you had a couple of hundred people at a county junior final (while it would mean a great deal to the communities involved) the attendance itself is small fish. Also important to remember that championship for most clubs is generally 2 to 3 games. In Cork most Senior Championship games I was at had maybe 100-300 and crowds are falling fast. County League games are man and his dog territory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Skelp


    Of course if any GAA competition be it inter county or club was extended to a minimum 46 game season, lets face it crowds would be pretty sparse.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Friend of mine who is avid Bohs fan, for his troubles, loves tormenting people in pub near Dalymount who are watching Sky.

    "Would you not go up to see a real game lads?"

    "No, its crap."

    Then back to watching some mind numbing game on the TV. Kids have their electronic devices, dads have the big screen ...


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