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Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭cms88


    Amprodude wrote: »
    Dr Crokes are potential chokers when met with opposition that can match them in club football. With all their quality they have, they have won very little outside of Munster.

    Dublin team of the 2010s are overrated even with 4 handy All Ireland's. Donegal in 2014 proved this.

    Kerry extremely lucky to win All Ireland in 2014. Same can be said for Cork in 2010.

    Mayo are never going to win Sam. Better off packing it in. Sorry guys but that's the way it is.

    Waterford are scared to win All Ireland. The occasion gets to them.

    Ulster football is the hardest province to win.

    One of the biggest myths in the GAA is that Ulster is the most competitive etc In the last 20 years 4 teams have won it. During that time the same teams played eachother in the final, so its also a myth that any of the teams in it can win it on a given year


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Amprodude wrote:
    Kerry extremely lucky to win All Ireland in 2014. Same can be said for Cork in 2010.

    That was a great Cork team. Who was unlucky to be beaten by Cork in 2010?

    Down or Kerry, or Dublin? if Dublin in 2010 are overrated how were Cork lucky to beat them.

    That Cork team were Giants, a great team should have won more imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Stoner wrote: »
    That was a great Cork team. Who was unlucky to be beaten by Cork in 2010?

    Down or Kerry, or Dublin? if Dublin in 2010 are overrated how were Cork lucky to beat them.

    That Cork team were Giants, a great team should have won more imo.


    If you follow the logic of the argument then the conclusion is that the best teams were those who never won anything.

    I's certainly different ....


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    OK here is one that might not go down well:)

    GAA supporters are really nowhere near as good as they claim to be.

    Croke Park is full twice a year maybe three times if the Dubs get a tasty semi or quarter against the likes of Kerry.

    A small town in England with a club in the third or fourth tier can get 6k souls every weekend throughout the depths of winter. Even big GAA counties struggle to get that for their 3 or 4 home league games and for the first two months of the championship.

    A bit like our countrys soccer fans...."best fans in the world" I don't think so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Good point about England. In the year that Leicester won EPL their rugby team still managed to have a full house when the soccer team was at home, and there are non league teams close by that get bigger crowds than LOI, which must be the worst supported soccer league in the northern hemisphere!

    Yes, Irish people are generally not great for attending live sport. GAA crowds are way ahead of any other but still relatively small in comparison to the major sport in other countries. I'm afraid we are very much a nation of couch potatoes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,148 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    OK here is one that might not go down well:)

    GAA supporters are really nowhere near as good as they claim to be.

    Croke Park is full twice a year maybe three times if the Dubs get a tasty semi or quarter against the likes of Kerry.

    A small town in England with a club in the third or fourth tier can get 6k souls every weekend throughout the depths of winter. Even big GAA counties struggle to get that for their 3 or 4 home league games and for the first two months of the championship.

    A bit like our countrys soccer fans...."best fans in the world" I don't think so.

    Firstly you cannot compare England and Ireland.
    England has ten times the population of Ireland, so automatically your 6k is down to 600.

    Secondly you are looking in the wrong place to get an idea of numbers.
    Yes inter county is the top level of the game but as we know it's not the be all and end all in some counties.
    So look at Carlow, and count the numbers that go to county championship, county league, minor etc etc from January to December and I'd imagine you would see a big number relative to the population.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭cms88


    The SKY deal isn't all that bad. People are up in arms about it, yet not a thing is said about league games being on Eir etc It's bringing extra games that wouldn't be on otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,148 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    cms88 wrote: »
    The SKY deal isn't all that bad. People are up in arms about it, yet not a thing is said about league games being on Eir etc It's bringing extra games that wouldn't be on otherwise.

    The games on Sky were previously covered by TV3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    Firstly you cannot compare England and Ireland.
    England has ten times the population of Ireland, so automatically your 6k is down to 600.

    That makes absolutely no sense. If you want to compare you would have to add up attendances at all football league games in England and divide by 10 and your answer would not make for pretty reading compared to Ireland.

    Of course there are many who attend smaller club games but that is the same everywhere. The only GAA game of note today (which you would think would attract the GAA "fanatics`) was In Portlaoise with just a few thousand souls.....probably more at Conference games accross the pond.

    Not just having a go at GAA supporters. Its across the board. Just over 18 months ago Leinster and Munster hit hard times with results and the attendances collapsed.( Champions Cup tickets could be bought at the gate despite all the bravado of the Thomand faithful etc.) There were a few in the IRFU who were getting in a fluster hense the cautiousness of long term big pay contacts with the fickle nature of the supporters. Thankfully both Leinster and Munster are back on track. Indeed at an Ireland rugby international at the Aviva just at the person next to you about the AIL and they will most likely look at you like you had two heads.

    Unpopular opinions but very true......


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Moorefield (Newbridge - ~22k pop) - one of four(?) clubs in the area? St. Lomans (Mullingar ~21k), one of about nine clubs in the locality?

    Tranmere (Birkenhead 90k pop) have the highest average attendance in the Conference with ~4.5k. Including whoever they are playing against.

    No idea what the attendance was today, but the size of the suburbs in England vs the base the average GAA club has to draw from is like comparing apples to the moon.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Moorefield (Newbridge - ~22k pop) - one of four(?) clubs in the area? St. Lomans (Mullingar ~21k), one of about nine clubs in the locality?

    Tranmere (Birkenhead 90k pop) have the highest average attendance in the Conference with ~4.5k. Including whoever they are playing against.

    No idea what the attendance was today, but the size of the suburbs in England vs the base the average GAA club has to draw from is like comparing apples to the moon.

    Ah come on now.....today was the biggest club game of the year in Leinster football and attracted a few thousand. The Conference playoff final attracts 20-50k annually depending on whos involved. BTW most people in Birkenhead would obviously support the other two clubs.

    I lived near Crewe about 10 years ago and they had about 6k in Gresty Road every Saturday throughout the winter with a population of about 60k or 70k with Chester and Wrexham nearby and a host of Welsh league clubs there was no spill over of fans from other areas. GAA clubs/counties just don't get that sort of support from similar bases but they like to talk down their noses bout "da soccer crowd":rolleyes:

    Apples and da moon and all that......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,148 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    That makes absolutely no sense. If you want to compare you would have to add up attendances at all football league games in England and divide by 10 and your answer would not make for pretty reading compared to Ireland.

    Of course there are many who attend smaller club games but that is the same everywhere. The only GAA game of note today (which you would think would attract the GAA "fanatics`) was In Portlaoise with just a few thousand souls.....probably more at Conference games accross the pond.

    Not just having a go at GAA supporters. Its across the board. Just over 18 months ago Leinster and Munster hit hard times with results and the attendances collapsed.( Champions Cup tickets could be bought at the gate despite all the bravado of the Thomand faithful etc.) There were a few in the IRFU who were getting in a fluster hense the cautiousness of long term big pay contacts with the fickle nature of the supporters. Thankfully both Leinster and Munster are back on track. Indeed at an Ireland rugby international at the Aviva just at the person next to you about the AIL and they will most likely look at you like you had two heads.

    Unpopular opinions but very true......

    Actually the highest average attendance at the conference so far this year was Tranmere, a former league club in greater Liverpool, average attendance of 4.5k

    http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/aveengnl.htm

    That puts your couple of thousand in Portlaois in a pretty good light, seeing as greater Liverpool has a population of 2.3 million, about half the size of Ireland.


    A rearranged Leinster club championship final is not exactly a huge draw. I'd guess there was more at the Kildare and Westmeath county finals.

    The structure of the provincial championships with uneven numbers of games spread over uneven calendars does not make for good comparisons with other sports that have a set number of home and away games.

    But the kind of numbers that are attending given the population size is far from shabby, and the depth of attendance going all the way down the food chain is evidence of strong core support for the sports.

    You mentioned rugby and the AIL.
    Rugby folk will always point to sold out Ireland games and relatively good average attendance at Pro 14 and European games as evidence of strong support for rugby. But once you go below those competitions your in one man and his dog territory.

    That's not the case with the GAA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,534 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Actually the highest average attendance at the conference so far this year was Tranmere, a former league club in greater Liverpool, average attendance of 4.5k

    http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/aveengnl.htm

    That puts your couple of thousand in Portlaois in a pretty good light, seeing as greater Liverpool has a population of 2.3 million, about half the size of Ireland.


    A rearranged Leinster club championship final is not exactly a huge draw. I'd guess there was more at the Kildare and Westmeath county finals.

    The structure of the provincial championships with uneven numbers of games spread over uneven calendars does not make for good comparisons with other sports that have a set number of home and away games.

    But the kind of numbers that are attending given the population size is far from shabby, and the depth of attendance going all the way down the food chain is evidence of strong core support for the sports.

    You mentioned rugby and the AIL.
    Rugby folk will always point to sold out Ireland games and relatively good average attendance at Pro 14 and European games as evidence of strong support for rugby. But once you go below those competitions your in one man and his dog territory.

    That's not the case with the GAA.

    That still doesn't make any sense unless the Tranmere game is the only one happening in the whole of greater Liverpool.

    The point is clear, the attendances at regular sporting events in Ireland is abysmal, there are huge numbers of fairweather friends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Ah come on now.....today was the biggest club game of the year in Leinster football and attracted a few thousand. The Conference playoff final attracts 20-50k annually depending on whos involved. BTW most people in Birkenhead would obviously support the other two clubs.

    I lived near Crewe about 10 years ago and they had about 6k in Gresty Road every Saturday throughout the winter with a population of about 60k or 70k with Chester and Wrexham nearby and a host of Welsh league clubs there was no spill over of fans from other areas. GAA clubs/counties just don't get that sort of support from similar bases but they like to talk down their noses bout "da soccer crowd":rolleyes:

    Apples and da moon and all that......

    Roughly what % of the population of Leinster do you think are Moorfield or Loman's club people?

    Leinster club final is the most important match of the year to probably literally zero people in Leinster. Would have been to Portlaoise people at one stage possibly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Indeed. How many of those who voted for McClean were ever at an LOI match, or even an international? Most peoples idea of sport here is to watch it on TV, preferably in a pub, and usually EPL. Hell will be a pub on a "Super Sunday." :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭shockframe


    English Football fans also have a set season and know when games will be played. They also more or less follow 1 team.

    The GAA is a lot more fragmented with far less games per team but a lot more teams to follow. Fans will be more likely go to watch Minor, Under 21 and Senior club and county games than they would for underage Soccer in England.

    Close to 10,000 attended All ireland minor final replays in 2006 and 2008. You aren't likely to get a crowd anywhere near that for any club or international under 18 competition in soccer.

    Attendances in England are excellent I'd agree and they do travel further distances but given Ireland's size the crowds it gets at all grades is remarkable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭shockframe


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That still doesn't make any sense unless the Tranmere game is the only one happening in the whole of greater Liverpool.

    The point is clear, the attendances at regular sporting events in Ireland is abysmal, there are huge numbers of fairweather friends.

    GAA attendances across the grades from schools, underage, Third Level and Inter county is the strongest of the 3 by some distance.

    Comparing it to England is a bit unfair. Why not a country similar in population like Croatia or Denmark?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    Come on son we're off to the footie, we don't want to miss the fireworks

    https://twitter.com/TheFootyStands/status/934251910479179776


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Roughly what % of the population of Leinster do you think are Moorfield or Loman's club people?

    Leinster club final is the most important match of the year to probably literally zero people in Leinster. Would have been to Portlaoise people at one stage possibly.

    Well ok, substitute Leinster Club final with O Byrne Cup/most National League games/most Leinster Championship games and you still can't beat the mighty Crewe.

    If you don't believe me go to an O Byrne Cup game next week and see for yourself.

    Of course there is a hard core element at all clubs across the country and these generally attend all the inter county games as well but my point is that they are very small in number.

    One of the most common reactions to Irelands failed 2023 World Cup bigs was that it was a disgrace they didn't give to the best supporters in the World.

    Some times it necessary to take a step back from our own hyperbole (best fans in the world/best little country in the world/everyone loves us) and look at things objectively rather than through patriotic tints)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86



    One of the most common reactions to Irelands failed 2023 World Cup bigs was that it was a disgrace they didn't give to the best supporters in the World.

    Some times it necessary to take a step back from our own hyperbole (best fans in the world/best little country in the world/everyone loves us) and look at things objectively rather than through patriotic tints)

    I cringe more than anyone at these videos of irish soccer fans abroad and our reaction to the RWC failure, but that's a complete different matter altogether

    You just cannot compare GAA attendances here with soccer attendaces in a much bigger country and containing multi-billion franchises.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭NufcNavan


    jr86 wrote: »
    I cringe more than anyone at these videos of irish soccer fans abroad and our reaction to the RWC failure, but that's a complete different matter altogether

    You just cannot compare GAA attendances here with soccer attendaces in a much bigger country and containing multi-billion franchises.

    I think it's a fair comparison. It all boils down to team support at the end of the day.

    And the mega rich clubs are only at the extreme end of the spectrum. The majority of clubs in England are relatively small time and easy for their fans to support and follow.

    This isn't a knock on GAA fans or sports fans in Ireland (that's another debate) but the level of dedication English football fans show on a wide scale is incredible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    I'll just echo this post which I think sums it up brilliantly
    shockframe wrote: »
    English Football fans also have a set season and know when games will be played. They also more or less follow 1 team.

    The GAA is a lot more fragmented with far less games per team but a lot more teams to follow. Fans will be more likely go to watch Minor, Under 21 and Senior club and county games than they would for underage Soccer in England.

    Close to 10,000 attended All ireland minor final replays in 2006 and 2008. You aren't likely to get a crowd anywhere near that for any club or international under 18 competition in soccer.

    Attendances in England are excellent I'd agree and they do travel further distances but given Ireland's size the crowds it gets at all grades is remarkable.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    I somewhat agree with the point, but I think the comparison is not a good one.

    For myself, I havent been going to as many county games as I'd like anymore. Thats because most of them now are not in Wexford. Travelling to away games is not easy with a young family who cant go. I'd go to a few league games, but really, the teams themselves arent bothered with leagues anymore, so fans ultimately wont be either. Championship is where it is at, and that should be the gauge of comparison. And you cant compare either as most times games are at neutral venues rather than a home team. Next year with the hurling set up will be interesting to see attendances for that.

    Further to the above, I go to my clubs games, hurling and football and underage too. You would have a lot of people who only go to club games and arent as bothered with county games. You dont have that in the same capacity in English soccer.

    Where I think an apt comparisons could be made, is attendances on GAA games from years gone by. As a whole, attendances are up, but I'd like to see a game ratio to fans stat as I remember being at sell out games in Croke Park for Leinster quarters and semis in hurling. Now you'd barely half it half full for a final. I think a saturation of more games, the back door and much more live games has contributed to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    jr86 wrote: »
    I cringe more than anyone at these videos of irish soccer fans abroad and our reaction to the RWC failure, but that's a complete different matter altogether

    You just cannot compare GAA attendances here with soccer attendaces in a much bigger country and containing multi-billion franchises.

    I'm not comparing GAA to the big soccer clubs in England....the comparison I have used is areas with similar populations in the lower tiers and the conference of English football.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,148 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I'm not comparing GAA to the big soccer clubs in England....the comparison I have used is areas with similar populations in the lower tiers and the conference of English football.

    From Wikipedia
    Crewe - population 72k
    Galway city - population 79k

    Crewe is Galway, not Newbridge, not Mullingar, not Wexford, not Thurles, not Tralee, not Longford, not Castlebar, not Letterkenny, not Omagh etc etc

    Find me a club in England the size of a club in Ireland and to hen we can make a comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭MaxPower131


    From Wikipedia
    Crewe - population 72k
    Galway city - population 79k

    Crewe is Galway, not Newbridge, not Mullingar, not Wexford, not Thurles, not Tralee, not Longford, not Castlebar, not Letterkenny, not Omagh etc etc

    Find me a club in England the size of a club in Ireland and to hen we can make a comparison.

    Most counties in Ireland have similar populations to lower tier towns in English football. We only have to go 3 or 4 home league games a year whereas they have to go to 23. Stats don't lie. As another poster stated we are a bunch of couch potatoes. Don't get me wrong we could fill Croke Park 3 times over in September but thats not really the point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭shockframe


    From Wikipedia
    Crewe - population 72k
    Galway city - population 79k

    Crewe is Galway, not Newbridge, not Mullingar, not Wexford, not Thurles, not Tralee, not Longford, not Castlebar, not Letterkenny, not Omagh etc etc

    Find me a club in England the size of a club in Ireland and to hen we can make a comparison.

    Crewe also has a decent railway service so is easily accessible from most parts of the country.

    The infrastructure is not as good in Ireland for long distance travel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Most counties in Ireland have similar populations to lower tier towns in English football. We only have to go 3 or 4 home league games a year whereas they have to go to 23. Stats don't lie. As another poster stated we are a bunch of couch potatoes. Don't get me wrong we could fill Croke Park 3 times over in September but thats not really the point.

    You don't have stats you have a load of auld blather and comparisons that don't survive first encounter with inspection.

    Leinster club final the week before Xmas the biggest game in the Leinster club calendar - where do we begin. Tranmere's attendances explained away by proximity to Liverpool/Everton but no interest in the fact that there are 120 clubs across Kildare and Westmeath (combined population 300k vs over two million in the Liverpool area). Dodgy comparison of populations between towns in England well served by transportation infrastructure and towns in Ireland that are obviously much smaller (passed off as comparable sizes), with little infrastructure and games on 50 miles away from either club involved.

    The fair comparison to make here is clearly between the number of club members vs size of attendance. People in the areas of those clubs that are not club members and that did not go to the games are hardly GAA people, in which case what have we to do with what events they are attending?

    People who aren't interested in GAA are typically not great at attending GAA matches, this is known.

    Any other club in Leinster that had a game on Sunday had its own club members rightly attending, managing and taking part in those.


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