Compulsory HCAP - Cancelled

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

Do the deer poachers have to pass this exam too ?

could be running the courses for all you know...:rolleyes:

dto001

https://www.change.org/p/heather-stop-the-hcap-becoming-mandatory-for-deer-hunting

Best Bitter

The comments posted on this forum,"MANDATORY CERTIFICATION FOR DEER HUNTERS" really are surprising.

I welcome this decision, it was long overdue!!!

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not
like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting
a licence.
Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300
which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing
something the way its previously been done.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

gunny123

Best Bitter wrote: »

The comments posted on this forum,"MANDATORY CERTIFICATION FOR DEER HUNTERS" really are surprising.

I welcome this decision, it was long overdue!!!

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not
like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting
a licence.
Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300
which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing
something the way its previously been done.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

Who are you ? What deer org are you fronting ?

Uinseann_16

Best Bitter wrote: »

The comments posted on this forum,"MANDATORY CERTIFICATION FOR DEER HUNTERS" really are surprising.

I welcome this decision, it was long overdue!!!

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not
like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting
a licence.
Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300
which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing
something the way its previously been done.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

For some 300 Euro is a lot that is half the price of my 308 and scope which i bought for my first season deer shooting this year im still in school and its a fair bit of money for me to be handing out and it is a huge financial impact on me that is 300 euro less for ammo and gear which means less shooting time for me why? Just because a select few want to line their pockets or force the ordinary man out of the sport? I think that is bullsh!t

dto001

Best Bitter wrote: »

The comments posted on this forum,"MANDATORY CERTIFICATION FOR DEER HUNTERS" really are surprising.

I welcome this decision, it was long overdue!!!

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not
like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting
a licence.
Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300
which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing
something the way its previously been done.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

This is you opinion and you are welcome to it but then why does it have to be forced through. You are more than welcome to take the test if that what you wish but I have been hunting deer (with my father) since i was 7 years of age I do not know everything probably not half of it but why should someone who has decided to write a course in 2006 think that they know more than me (maybe they do) but who trained them??? The expense this would add to me to shoot 6-8 deer for the pot every year would stop me altogether!! 
Also as its the EU and you think we should be the same as them all why aren't courses from other European countries accepted?
As was mentioned above where will it stop? It won't because it set precedent and everyone will jump on the band wagon next we'll have to do a special course on how to shoot pigeons!!! 
Why also has this not been voted on by all people involved in the sport not just a couple of people in a society? especially ones which try to stop people shooting at night to keep their part of the sport safe but to hell with the others 
Why should I not be allowed teach my kids how to hunt deer? The Gun safety side has already been taken care of as all new licensees have to have completed a safety course before they can get a gun license.So the field craft should be allowed to be taught by me and if they want to take the course then fine that is their choice.
In what way does it protect the sport? is it going to stop poaching? Is it going to stop bad practices? I doubt any of this will happen but one crowd will make a lot of money and this will probably all disappear in a couple of years on fact finding missions and we will still have the same problems.
Why not lobby for 40 years to get extra rangers/funding for the NPWS? 
its bad enough that shooting sport is declining without trying to kill it altogether!

juice1304

The course has nothing to do with fieldcraft it is a shooting exam and a test to see if you can identify potential diseases and where to shoot the deer along with basic law in relation to hunting deer.
I have nothing to do with any of these organizations nor would i as i have seen how they are all run like everything in Ireland it is usually a bunch of idiots looking for control.
However, i will say in a sense the test is not a bad idea. I already did the HCAP a few years ago simply to have it. And while at the tests there were many many "expert deer stalkers" there who of course knew it all up until the point they had to tick the few multiple choice question and shoot the few shots.
I found the standard of shooting to be quite shocking considering the majority of the shots were supported and all within 100m some of them were shooting three times..
I think how it will end up with one of these groups running **** courses is a shame, but if it were done right and not at a crazy cost the idea is good.
If it was done how it is done in America it would be great.
Also find yourselves lucky in Germany it is €3000 to do the hunting licence with a 75% fail rate the majority of the courses are run over a six month period too and unless you own land yourself it is crazy money like 700 a hecter where i am at the moment, along with the fact that the hunter pays the farmer for any damage to the land, crops, equipment or fencing etc.. that the animals do throughout the year. A friend of mine had to pay out €20,000 last year from damage done by the wild boar.

grassroot1

Best Bitter wrote: »

The comments posted on this forum,"MANDATORY CERTIFICATION FOR DEER HUNTERS" really are surprising.

I welcome this decision, it was long overdue!!!

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not
like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting
a licence.
Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300
which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing
something the way its previously been done.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

Another "brilliant" first post at exactly the right time!!!

grassroot1

juice1304 wrote: »

The course has nothing to do with fieldcraft it is a shooting exam and a test to see if you can identify potential diseases and where to shoot the deer along with basic law in relation to hunting deer.
I have nothing to do with any of these organizations nor would i as i have seen how they are all run like everything in Ireland it is usually a bunch of idiots looking for control.
However, i will say in a sense the test is not a bad idea. I already did the HCAP a few years ago simply to have it. And while at the tests there were many many "expert deer stalkers" there who of course knew it all up until the point they had to tick the few multiple choice question and shoot the few shots.
I found the standard of shooting to be quite shocking considering the majority of the shots were supported and all within 100m some of them were shooting three times..
I think how it will end up with one of these groups running **** courses is a shame, but if it were done right and not at a crazy cost the idea is good.
If it was done how it is done in America it would be great.
Also find yourselves lucky in Germany it is €3000 to do the hunting licence with a 75% fail rate the majority of the courses are run over a six month period too and unless you own land yourself it is crazy money like 700 a hecter where i am at the moment, along with the fact that the hunter pays the farmer for any damage to the land, crops, equipment or fencing etc.. that the animals do throughout the year. A friend of mine had to pay out €20,000 last year from damage done by the wild boar.

Yes but you are in Germany and we are in Ireland.
I shoot by the good graces of my neighbours I dont need a test or an exam. There are plenty of good books on stalking and deer management. I can zero my rifle at anytime I dont need anyone to hold my hand.
What exactly will a made up course do for me or my sport?

dto001

juice1304 wrote: »

The course has nothing to do with fieldcraft it is a shooting exam and a test to see if you can identify potential diseases and where to shoot the deer along with basic law in relation to hunting deer.
I have nothing to do with any of these organizations nor would i as i have seen how they are all run like everything in Ireland it is usually a bunch of idiots looking for control.
However, i will say in a sense the test is not a bad idea. I already did the HCAP a few years ago simply to have it. And while at the tests there were many many "expert deer stalkers" there who of course knew it all up until the point they had to tick the few multiple choice question and shoot the few shots.
I found the standard of shooting to be quite shocking considering the majority of the shots were supported and all within 100m some of them were shooting three times..
I think how it will end up with one of these groups running **** courses is a shame, but if it were done right and not at a crazy cost the idea is good.
If it was done how it is done in America it would be great.
Also find yourselves lucky in Germany it is €3000 to do the hunting licence with a 75% fail rate the majority of the courses are run over a six month period too and unless you own land yourself it is crazy money like 700 a hecter where i am at the moment, along with the fact that the hunter pays the farmer for any damage to the land, crops, equipment or fencing etc.. that the animals do throughout the year. A friend of mine had to pay out €20,000 last year from damage done by the wild boar.

You are saying that knowing about diseases is not about field craft that i will have to disagree with you on.
I'm not saying I know it all(probably far from it) but what makes them any better? 
As you are saying everything that is run in Ireland....... and if this gets through it will end up a money maker for these organisations and the time to stop is now not in a couple of years when everyone say ''o s*@te we shouldn't have let that happen then and my kids are saying why do I have to pay for all this when you didn't!!!
If the world was a perfect place all these "good ideas" would be workable but unfortunately common sense does not prevail anymore but greed does!!!
In relation to bad shooting in every country there are bad shots it could be just that you were on with a bad crew or nerves is a good one as people watching doesn't help!
Excuse all the reposts not sure what happened:(

juice1304

grassroot1 wrote: »

Yes but you are in Germany and we are in Ireland.
I shoot by the good graces of my neighbours I dont need a test or an exam. There are plenty of good books on stalking and deer management. I can zero my rifle at anytime I dont need anyone to hold my hand.
What exactly will a made up course do for me or my sport?

Well maybe everyone else who graces gods earth is not as perfect and need the test so as not to injure themselves, others or the animal they are shooting. I have had close calls with "experienced hunters" several times, someone shooting right past my head while stalking because they saw a deer i was ten paces ahead of them.., ive seen people accidentally discharge not unloading climbing over a fence etc..
Many people are ignorant to what caliber they should be actually using instead of being sold whatever the local dealer has who himself may not have a clue..
The same goes for the type of ammunition people should use, or shot placement.
Also i am Irish and hunt in Ireland.
Like i have already said "If" it were run properly and was "free" it would be nothing but good. So please hold of on burning me at the stake.
And i don't see the great surprise to this in all fairness considering it is the same throughout Europe and is even mandatory in the land of the gun across the atlantic.

juice1304

dto001 wrote: »

You are saying that knowing about diseases is not about field craft that i will have to disagree with you on.
I'm not saying I know it all at all but as you are saying everything that is run in Ireland....... and if this gets through it will end up a money maker for these organisations and the time to stop is now not in a couple of years when everyone say ''o s*@te we shouldn't have let that happen then and my kids are saying why do I have to pay for all this when you didn't!!!
If the world was a perfect place all these "good ideas" would be workable but unfortunately common sense does not prevail anymore but greed does!!!

You are saying that knowing about diseases is not about field craft that i will have to disagree with you on.
I'm not saying I know it all at all but as you are saying everything that is run in Ireland....... and if this gets through it will end up a money maker for these organisations and the time to stop is now not in a couple of years when everyone say ''o s*@te we shouldn't have let that happen then and my kids are saying why do I have to pay for all this when you didn't!!!
If the world was a perfect place all these "good ideas" would be workable but unfortunately common sense does not prevail anymore but greed does!!!

Im saying it is not like in England or Germany where you have to do a hunting apprenticeship and have to go out with other hunters who actually teach you everything in the field. Which would take away your chance to teach your young lad. Where as in ireland you answer a list of questions that can be learned off in ten minutes.

dto001

juice1304 wrote: »

dto001 wrote: »

You are saying that knowing about diseases is not about field craft that i will have to disagree with you on.
I'm not saying I know it all at all but as you are saying everything that is run in Ireland....... and if this gets through it will end up a money maker for these organisations and the time to stop is now not in a couple of years when everyone say ''o s*@te we shouldn't have let that happen then and my kids are saying why do I have to pay for all this when you didn't!!!
If the world was a perfect place all these "good ideas" would be workable but unfortunately common sense does not prevail anymore but greed does!!!

You are saying that knowing about diseases is not about field craft that i will have to disagree with you on.
I'm not saying I know it all at all but as you are saying everything that is run in Ireland....... and if this gets through it will end up a money maker for these organisations and the time to stop is now not in a couple of years when everyone say ''o s*@te we shouldn't have let that happen then and my kids are saying why do I have to pay for all this when you didn't!!!
If the world was a perfect place all these "good ideas" would be workable but unfortunately common sense does not prevail anymore but greed does!!!

Im saying it is not like in England or Germany where you have to do a hunting apprenticeship and have to go out with other hunters who actually teach you everything in the field.  Which would take away your chance to teach your young lad. Where as in ireland you answer a list of questions that can be learned off in ten minutes.

For now its a list of questions that can be learned off in ten minutes next it'll be meat handling course then it'll we you have to be a member of a society and on and on. There are simply too many money making opportunities. I actually Learned from an experienced hunter aka my father which was kind of like an apprenticeship. 
I do not object anyone trying to learn or teach others its just it is becoming a money racket at this point as we had a couple of months ago with the night shooting it was the same crowd protecting their own!!

yubabill1

dto001 wrote: »

https://www.change.org/p/heather-stop-the-hcap-becoming-mandatory-for-deer-hunting

17 signatures including mine.

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

could be running the courses for all you know...:rolleyes:

They have already been and done the course no doubt.Even Inspector Google late of AGS did it.:P
Change.org shared on FB and Firearmsunited Ireland.
Phone calls made to two prominent politicians. One wants to meet tomorrow.

Grizzly 45

juice1304 wrote: »

Also find yourselves lucky in Germany it is €3000 to do the hunting licence with a 75% fail rate the majority of the courses are run over a six month period too and unless you own land yourself it is crazy money like 700 a hecter where i am at the moment, along with the fact that the hunter pays the farmer for any damage to the land, crops, equipment or fencing etc.. that the animals do throughout the year. A friend of mine had to pay out €20,000 last year from damage done by the wild boar.

You are being screwed!!
Go to the Ozzi states of former East Germany and you can do it within 30 days at a lot less than that.Also, it isn't comparing like and like at all.Seeing that first HCAP has a lot of German hunting test in it, that is total if not borderline relevant to irrevelant to Ireland.The reason the German hunting test is so detailed, they call it "the green Leaving cert"[Das Grune Abituer] is because hunting in Germany is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE, not a hobby.Shooting something in Germany is 5% of the entire hunting lifestyle, and because the Germans have a long and traditional hunting history and ethics as well as their own language for the hunt, something like 70% of that test takes up that time frame.

As you pointed out, yes it is needed in the USA for an annual hunting license.But have you seen the NRA hunter safety course.You can do it online and its FREE and you have your results back within seconds of completing each course segment.You then book in your state a day's practical course, which is more on GUN SAFETY while hunting, stroll and shoot some targets safely, and that's it.You are now a certified safe hunter and can apply online for your state hunting license.

THAT is how you do a hunting test these days.Not pay for a manual, which has blatant inaccuracy and is badly put together.Then wait six months to do a course in the middle of nowhere, go to a range, if you pass a multiple choice paper on paper[FFS this island wants to be ahead in the cyber world and attract
computor and internet companies here? PLLLEEEAAASSSSEE!!].Then drive to a range to shoot at ridiculous distances on a stationary target for 250 euros and other costs, so I can hunt?On Private property,where the owner doesn't give a fiddley for my paper qualifications? FUK THAT!!: mad::mad:

If this comes to fruition and there is a fair competition and open tender.I propose any such course could be done online for 30 euros and 100 euros at most for the actual shoot course which could be done in a DAY at Midlands Do the whole thing online at your own pace. 75% padding, time wasting and HCAP BS removed already.

Cass

Best Bitter wrote: »

Passing an exam is a prerequisite to being allowed to hunt in many European countries. Not like it is in Ireland, where anyone with a rifle can hunt on privately owned land after getting a licence.

Why the constant need to compare us to other countries? What works elsewhere does not mean it should be implemented here.

Obviously the issue for most people isn`t the "enormous financial impact" of maybe € 300 which sitting the exam might cost. Instead, it is a matter of wanting to continue doing something the way its previously been done.

I'm delighted you can makes snippy comments regarding €300. it's a lot of money for others.

We have a long, long history of fieldsport in this country and it was always passed down from generation to generation. Only in the last few years when people have registered businesses for shooting schools, "centres of excellence", and training facilities have the calls for such courses become more prevalent.

Funny that.

So everyone, let`s not complain and instead sit down and start stuying for the exam. I am sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

Wow.

Give in much. As was said above what association do you represent because as of now you have given reason for why these should be introduced only that the "sheeple" should get in line like good little boys.

juice1304 wrote: »

I found the standard of shooting to be quite shocking considering the majority of the shots were supported and all within 100m some of them were shooting three times..

Yup.

Fail the shooting part, take it again. Fail that, pay again, and go again. Repeat until you pass.

Congrats you're competent.

Also it should be called the HPAP as it has nothing to do with competence and judges your proficiency. Now they want to introduce proficiency into shooting, something that should be opposed at all costs.

juice1304 wrote: »

Well maybe everyone else who graces gods earth is not as perfect and need the test so as not to injure themselves, others or the animal they are shooting. I have had close calls with "experienced hunters" several times, someone shooting right past my head while stalking because they saw a deer i was ten paces ahead of them.., ive seen people accidentally discharge not unloading climbing over a fence etc..

How exactly would the HCAP address these as it doesn't cover them? Or were you referring tot he German test?

Many people are ignorant to what caliber they should be actually using instead of being sold whatever the local dealer has who himself may not have a clue..
The same goes for the type of ammunition people should use, or shot placement.

Shot placement perhaps, but none of the rest is covered in the HCAP.

And i don't see the great surprise to this in all fairness considering it is the same throughout Europe and is even mandatory in the land of the gun across the atlantic.

Again we do not need to keep looking to other countries to further restrict out shooting sports.

Jesus we've gone for hundreds of years without them and got on just fine. If someone wants to educate themselves some more then have at it, but the mandatory application of such courses is not going to address poaching, improve the standard, and will not stop as deer.

Grizzly 45

Best Bitter wrote: »

. I am
sure that erveryone who passes the exam will have learned something new!

They sure as fuk won't learn anything worthwhile from that HCAP manual that's for sure! :rolleyes:
NEVER in my life seen such a badly put together teaching manual.:mad::mad:

grassroot1

juice1304 wrote: »

Well maybe everyone else who graces gods earth is not as perfect and need the test so as not to injure themselves, others or the animal they are shooting. I have had close calls with "experienced hunters" several times, someone shooting right past my head while stalking because they saw a deer i was ten paces ahead of them.., ive seen people accidentally discharge not unloading climbing over a fence etc..
Many people are ignorant to what caliber they should be actually using instead of being sold whatever the local dealer has who himself may not have a clue..
The same goes for the type of ammunition people should use, or shot placement.
Also i am Irish and hunt in Ireland.
Like i have already said "If" it were run properly and was "free" it would be nothing but good. So please hold of on burning me at the stake.
And i don't see the great surprise to this in all fairness considering it is the same throughout Europe and is even mandatory in the land of the gun across the atlantic.

Please tell me how shooting at target range and answering 30 multiple choice questions will make the idiot that nearly shot you any safer?
Choice of caliber(we only get to use what we are let cant see that changing)
Shot placement(everyone has a different choice depending on conditions cant see anyone changing either)
Oh and I can assure you it will not be free!!!

Cass

Some ask why the opposition. Well here ya go. My reasons for opposing it.

1. The NPWS and Deer Alliance have no authority to introduce any mandatory courses.
2. There is no legislation in place to support this.
3. An SI (someone floated the idea) cannot supersede primary legislation, of which none exists (for this exact topic).
4. The HCAP was introduced for shooters on Coilte land. It is a CYA exercise.
5. The HCAP was written by deer stalkers so what are their qualifications? I don't mean 30, 40, 50 years shooting, i mean registered, verifiable, qualifications.
6. Coilte demand this cert, but what official recognition does it have (An Gardaí, DoJ, DoE, DoA.R.H.GA., etc)
7. Where does the money go? Even now, presently, who gets it and how is it spent?
8. Introducing proficiency as a prerequisite for a license is a dangerous precedence. How do you measure proficiency, what national standards are there, and who determines it's met (leads back to the qualifications of those deeming how proficient a person is).
9. It will not combat poaching.
10. Poaching is a criminal act, and those that do it are already breaking the law. How will further legislation stop those already intent on breaking the current laws?
11. More legislation is not needed, only enforcement of the current legislation which comes under the guise of more rangers and stronger punishment for those caught.
12. **This one is less factual and more emotive** I'ts my gun, licensed by An Gardaí who deem me competent, and private permissions given to me by land owners so the deer alliance have no say in what i do.

meathstevie

Realistically speaking the basic knowledge one requires to hunt deer for non-commercial purposes is very simple. Be able to differentiate between red, sika, hybrid and fallow deer. Know what a set of antlers looks like and know the open and closed season dates and be able to shoot safely. It also helps if you know how to skin and gut a rabbit because the only difference between that and skinning and gutting a deer is weight and size.

Sika98k

meathstevie wrote: »

Realistically speaking the basic knowledge one requires to hunt deer for non-commercial purposes is very simple. Be able to differentiate between red, sika, hybrid and fallow deer. Know what a set of antlers looks like and know the open and closed season dates and be able to shoot safely. It also helps if you know how to skin and gut a rabbit because the only difference between that and skinning and gutting a deer is weight and size.

Shhh, if everyone knows that you won't be able to run courses to train people and make money out of them.

cavan shooter

Can't help thinking this is all linked to the infamous sports coalition of vested interests and there view of the future for shooters in Ireland. There train was derailed on one front and now they have forced it back on a different track

This has to be fought tooth and nail or watch when you have to do similiar for your humble rabbit shooter or pheasant shooter.

To quote
"They haven't gone away you know."

Grizzly 45

Already on the cards CS.Have a look at what they are pushing in HCAP 2 and trained hunter.

But was thinking about this last night, even if it does go thru, it will probably have [1] zero effect on poaching and [2] probably increase it.Because how many people are going to say quietly "Fuk this for a lark, Ill continue without all this paperwork and other nonsense.The farmer is going to be grand as nowI'll shoot deer for him anytime he wants them gone.I'll join a target shooting club and that covers the good reason to own a rifle." Knock on effect, now NPWS has literally no idea on deer numbers as there are fewer bag returns.Even where poaching is happening and even LESS cooperation from the very people it should be helping and needs to do its job of conservation.

The commercial poachers[who probably have the HCAP already] ramp it up as there will be lets abandoned all over the place, where there was pitiful reporting or action taken against poaching it will become non-existent, or lads will dump the rifles and revert back to the 1970s methods of shotgun slugs, which anyone with half a brain can make after watching a youtube video these days.I grew up in the 1970's and 80s here and I can honestly say I never recall anyone being caught or sentenced for poaching.Bar one edjit,and that was for selling pheasents to a butcher.Poaching prosecutions have only become more common as dipshts have posted their activities on FB or social media,and because lads have taken an intrest in protecting their lets since the big cal rifles arrived back on the scene.

In short,the UNINTENDED consequences of this being pushed out of Coilte onto the rest of us,will proably set Irish stalking back at least 30 years.

meathstevie

juice1304 wrote: »

The course has nothing to do with fieldcraft it is a shooting exam and a test to see if you can identify potential diseases and where to shoot the deer along with basic law in relation to hunting deer.
I have nothing to do with any of these organizations nor would i as i have seen how they are all run like everything in Ireland it is usually a bunch of idiots looking for control.
However, i will say in a sense the test is not a bad idea. I already did the HCAP a few years ago simply to have it. And while at the tests there were many many "expert deer stalkers" there who of course knew it all up until the point they had to tick the few multiple choice question and shoot the few shots.
I found the standard of shooting to be quite shocking considering the majority of the shots were supported and all within 100m some of them were shooting three times..
I think how it will end up with one of these groups running **** courses is a shame, but if it were done right and not at a crazy cost the idea is good.
If it was done how it is done in America it would be great.
Also find yourselves lucky in Germany it is €3000 to do the hunting licence with a 75% fail rate the majority of the courses are run over a six month period too and unless you own land yourself it is crazy money like 700 a hecter where i am at the moment, along with the fact that the hunter pays the farmer for any damage to the land, crops, equipment or fencing etc.. that the animals do throughout the year. A friend of mine had to pay out €20,000 last year from damage done by the wild boar.

I don't think anyone has a fundamental issue with some level of objective testing and qualification but bar those standing to line their pockets just about everyone has a serious issue with the gombeen carry on it more than likely will involve.

Sika98k

What is that that juice1304 says about the range test ? People taking 3(three) attempts at the test ? Surely not on the same day. The manual does state that only 2(two) attempts are allowed on the one day.
Is this course being run properly ? if what juice1304 says is correct it does not seem to be maintaining a high standard,if any.

cavan shooter

A couple of months ago the sports coalition of vested interests were muting a "safe pass" for shooters and we went ballistic at the thought. They muted a proposed ban on fox shooting

This course and it's proposal is a done deal and it's introduction is as a dodgy way of introducing the same course by the back door.
This Hcap is the thin end of the wedge and the start of what the sports coalition of vested interests are trying to do dominate the shooting scene for there own good. It looks as if the deer stalker is being singled out for this and been hung out to dry. Where is the Deer Associations on this matter.?

gunny123

cavan shooter wrote: »

A couple of months ago the sports coalition of vested interests were muting a "safe pass" for shooters and we went ballistic at the thought. They muted a proposed ban on fox shooting

This course and it's proposal is a done deal and it's introduction is as a dodgy way of introducing the same course by the back door.
This Hcap is the thin end of the wedge and the start of what the sports coalition of vested interests are trying to do dominate the shooting scene for there own good. It looks as if the deer stalker is being singled out for this and been hung out to dry. Where is the Deer Associations on this matter.?

Where are the deer associations on this ? Fully behind it if there is handy money to be made is my guess.

cavan shooter

Also meant to say stop comparing Ireland to other Countries....we are not Germany or England or the States. Just because it's done outside the state doesn't automatically mean it's better...

gunny123

cavan shooter wrote: »

Also meant to say stop comparing Ireland to other Countries....we are not Germany or England or the States. Just because it's done outside the state doesn't automatically mean it's better...

Comparisons to other countries only happens when it suits. Bowhunting, hunting with pistols and target sports like ipsc, and the ability to reload at home happen in other countries, but we are told it doesn't matter as this is ireland. Sickens my guts this country sometimes.