Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

meeeeh

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He is a GP and alternative doctor. He has the same qualifications as Ciara.

Some GPs practice acupuncture alongside "real" medicine. Someone suffering from Bells Palsy will recover more quickly if treated with acupuncture and "real" medicine than someone being treated with "real" medicine alone. Acupuncture wouldn't be used by a GP for everything or even that often but sometimes it has its place in the GPs surgery

And if there was any actual proof for what you are claiming acupuncture wouldn't be classified as alternative medicine. As it is your claims are completely unverified and unproven and about as idiotic as anti vac groups.

kunst nugget

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He is a GP and alternative doctor. He has the same qualifications as Ciara.

Some GPs practice acupuncture alongside "real" medicine. Someone suffering from Bells Palsy will recover more quickly if treated with acupuncture and "real" medicine than someone being treated with "real" medicine alone. Acupuncture wouldn't be used by a GP for everything or even that often but sometimes it has its place in the GPs surgery

Alongside being the operative word. I'd have no problem acupuncture or other such therapies being used in a complementary fashion with standard Western medicine. It's when the patient is being told to give up something beneficial like cholesterol medicine to try out a lala treatment like the one the GP was espousing that I'd have a problem with.

In that instance, I'd have no issue with Kelly raising concerns about the treatment, given that she's had personal experience with it.

meeeeh

Her claims probably were defamatory unless it was proven somewhere the gp methods affected her father's health but she could he well right in her assessment. Unfortunately charlatans are allowed to do a lot of damage and it's very hard to prevent their actions (anti vac groups are prime example).

Hurrache

Grolschevik wrote: »

Doubt it'll get to court. Newstalk's insurers will pay him something less than a couple of days in the High Court would cost.

I think he'll find it hard to win this case as he'd have to prove what he does is backed by scientific proof and therefore she was wrong in her assertion so it may well end up in court.

J Mysterio

Hurrache wrote: »

I think he'll find it hard to win this case as he'd have to prove what he does is backed by scientific proof and therefore she was wrong in her assertion so it may well end up in court.

Not so. She will be asked to show there is evidence to her assertion that his treatment led to he father's death. As it seems this is impossible, it will then be rightly decreed to be slander.

The GP in question may also be able to show how Kelly's 'baseless' slander in a position of power on the national airwaves has affected his work/ social life/ relationships/ self.

Sleeper12

Hurrache wrote:

I think he'll find it hard to win this case as he'd have to prove what he does is backed by scientific proof and therefore she was wrong in her assertion so it may well end up in court.

He is a GP. Same qualifications as Ciara.

As said above it won't get to court but if it did she has to prove what she said was true.

Sleeper12

meeeeh wrote:

And if there was any actual proof for what you are claiming acupuncture wouldn't be classified as alternative medicine. As it is your claims are completely unverified and unproven and about as idiotic as anti vac groups.

I'm not an acupuncture fan. Never had it done however I do know that it is complimentary medicine in China. They use it in hospitals alongside modern medicine.

Many GPs in Ireland use acupuncture to compliment modern medicine in their practice. I know many people believe they found success in pain management from acupuncture where modern medicine failed them.

HSE recognises acupuncture.
https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/a/acupuncture/

anthonyjmaher

I think what will be most worrying about this for Newstalk is that this was not an accidental slip of the tongue, it wasn't something said in the normal course of a discussion, or something said in defense of the station. This was something that she introduced to the conversation to attack somebody that she PERSONALLY has a problem with. So Newstalk will be paying for her personal vendetta against the other GP.

Given her own performance as a presenter and the narrow window of topics discussed on the show (which could be summarized as "preaching about fat kids and oppressed women"), I can't imagine the audience figures are great. I wonder will NT cut their losses with her at this stage, rather than risking her saying that her local butcher is serving horsemeat as steak in the future.

DickSwiveller

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I think what will be most worrying about this for Newstalk is that this was not an accidental slip of the tongue, it wasn't something said in the normal course of a discussion, or something said in defense of the station. This was something that she introduced to the conversation to attack somebody that she PERSONALLY has a problem with. So Newstalk will be paying for her personal vendetta against the other GP.
Given her own performance as a presenter and the narrow window of topics discussed (which could be summarized as "fat kids and oppressed women"), I can't imagine the audience figures are great. I wonder will NT cut their losses with her at this stage, rather than risk her saying that the local butcher is serving horsemeat as steak.

Possibly. Her show is boring. I wouldn't be surprised if people have switched the dial.

UsedToWait

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

..This was something that she introduced to the conversation to attack somebody that she PERSONALLY has a problem with. So Newstalk will be paying for her personal vendetta against the other GP.
...

Lest we forget, the previous incumbent was a rabid anti-vaxxer, and may have done some harm with his oft-repeated rants, but the above gets to the heart of this issue.

I do wish someone who heard the piece could clarify exactly what happened though.

....


Edit:
Apologies, read a few pages back and I see this was already discussed at the time on this thread..
The statement here for anyone else unclear as to the complaint..

http://www.newstalk.com/Apology-and-Clarification

Vorenus400

Swanner wrote: »

The big wheel always turns..

I'd say George is grinning into his cornflakes this morning..

This is confusing as hell. Why would George be happy about the only person who publicly stuck by him all the way having legal troubles? They are very good friends and he basically got her a media career.

I am not a big fan of her show but why would george be happy for a friend to have trouble?

Tell me how

meeeeh wrote:

Her claims probably were defamatory unless it was proven somewhere the gp methods affected her father's health but she could he well right in her assessment. Unfortunately charlatans are allowed to do a lot of damage and it's very hard to prevent their actions (anti vac groups are prime example).

Generally yes, but this guy has medical training to qualified doctor level. His view on acupuncture are more relevant than a facebook educated opinion (or boards for that matter) such as anti-vac proponents.

anthonyjmaher

Vorenus400 wrote: »

This is confusing as hell. Why would George be happy about the only person who publicly stuck by him all the way having legal troubles? They are very good friends and he basically got her a media career.

It's not confusing at all. I'm not sure I want to drag this up again, but suffice to say that there are two schools of thought on her actions when George was in trouble.

1) She supported George. Evidenced by the fact that she said on The Marion Finucane Show that he was a great help to her and a friend.

2) She knifed George in the back. Evidenced by the fact that she waited until George had been fired before making any comment. The idea here being that she never spoke up for George when it may have contributed to saving his job, but showered him in weasel words of praise as soon as he had been fired and she was in his job.


I'll let you guess as to which camp I'm in... :-)

Tell me how

Vorenus400 wrote:

This is confusing as hell. Why would George be happy about the only person who publicly stuck by him all the way having legal troubles? They are very good friends and he basically got her a media career.

She was one of the people who signed a letter to newstalk management that demanded action on George iirc.

anthonyjmaher

Tell me how wrote: »

Vorenus400 wrote:

This is confusing as hell. Why would George be happy about the only person who publicly stuck by him all the way having legal troubles? They are very good friends and he basically got her a media career.

She was one of the people who signed a letter to newstalk management that demanded action on George iirc.

ohhhhhh. I'm not sure we have clarification on that. Do we?

meeeeh

Tell me how wrote: »

Generally yes, but this guy has medical training to qualified doctor level. His view on acupuncture are more relevant than a facebook educated opinion (or boards for that matter) such as anti-vac proponents.

There are people with medical education in anti vac movement. And he doesn't do acupuncture so I don't know why his knowledge of that would be relevant. This is his area of expertise:

https://www.chelationireland.com/about-us

If you want to heal your hart problems with vitamin C or acupuncture be my guest but I would rather trust doctors who do proper medicine.

Tell me how

anthonyjmaher wrote:

ohhhhhh. I'm not sure we have clarification on that. Do we?

It was my understanding. I'm not staying it as fact. Maybe I misunderstood.

Tell me how

meeeeh wrote:

If you want to heal your hart problems with vitamin C or acupuncture be my guest but I would rather trust doctors who do proper medicine.

Not sure any medical training would be useful on Highway Addressable Remote Transducers, or Vit C or acupuncture for that matter but I'll bow to your superior knowledge .

ButtersSuki

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'd like to hear Butterski's reaction to it being another GP suing Kelly. They are the lowest of the low after all...

As a layperson, that therapy he is peddling sounds a tad nonsensical.

Well you're nothing if not predictable - if you're going to quote me at least use the full quote. What you have implied is not what I said, and you know it; and it's not the first time you've tried to twist this into something it's not. I have already provided the full quote and the context for same.

You (from memory, though it may have been another poster) have also challenged me on this in the past and had that exact point clarified for you by a mod.

As for my reaction on this further revelation, it doesn't change the substantive part of the issue in that she has made a very serious error of judgement here - but of course you're overlooking that. My initial comments were based on the assumption on my part (which clearly is now incorrect) that her deceased father was being cared for in his final days in hospital by a consultant-led team. This would be the norm for end of life situations for ill patients (as opposed to those who die of natural causes suddenly etc.). This I know from some personal and a lot of professional experience. My father for example currently has a team of 28 different Doctors (consisting of Consultants, SpRs, and SHOs) looking after his end of life journey. He hasn't seen a GP in years because they simply wouldn't be qualified to treat the very advanced stages of his primary illness. My comments were based on such a care situation, and I stand by them. Had I known she was being cared for by a GP, I wouldn't have made them as such.

Equally though, in the same way as a GP wouldn't be qualified to comment on a Consultant's care, there's a lot of people on this thread who feel able to comment on the qualifications of a Doctor who also deals in shall we say alternative medicine. Acupuncture for the record (and I only use this as an example as it has been referenced earlier) is recognised by the WHO. I don't know enough about the area of medicine that the Doctor who Kelly libeled practices to comment on it, but I'd wager neither do some of the people who have commented.

coolshannagh28

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

It's not confusing at all. I'm not sure I want to drag this up again, but suffice to say that there are two schools of thought on her actions when George was in trouble.

1) She supported George. Evidenced by the fact that she said on The Marion Finucane Show that he was a great help to her and a friend.

2) She knifed George in the back. Evidenced by the fact that she waited until George had been fired before making any comment. The idea here being that she never spoke up for George when it may have contributed to saving his job, but showered him in weasel words of praise as soon as he had been fired and she was in his job.


I'll let you guess as to which camp I'm in... :-)

Ciara on High noon went from being a love in the weeks previous to George s indiscretion to the coldest half hour of radio I have ever heard in her appearance post the event

meeeeh

Tell me how wrote: »

Not sure any medical training would be useful on Highway Addressable Remote Transducers, or Vit C or acupuncture for that matter but I'll bow to your superior knowledge .

Well at least I only have problems with spelling and not with understanding...

meeeeh

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Acupuncture for the record (and I only use this as an example as it has been referenced earlier) is recognised by the WHO.

As part of medicine or as part of 'traditional medicine' and some standards and regulation are advised so any butcher can't attack you with some needles.?

anthonyjmaher

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Ciara on High noon went from being a love in the weeks previous to George s indiscretion to the coldest half hour of radio I have ever heard in her appearance post the event

I think that half hour of radio absolutely BURIED George. He was already in trouble at this point (in spite of having apologised), but when the listening audience observed that his friend / colleague / protegé Ciara Kelly condemned and essentially disowned him, he was gone.

Del.Monte

What goes around, comes around - hopefully.

anthonyjmaher

Del.Monte wrote: »

What goes around, comes around - hopefully.

That's a pretty childish way of looking at it.


Yet I feel exactly the same :-)

Vorenus400

Tell me how wrote: »

She was one of the people who signed a letter to newstalk management that demanded action on George iirc.

Is this just what you believe or what you want to believe? She was the only person who consistently supported him. Not even Pat Kenny supported him beyond one comment. It was advertisers and management that fecked Hook, not his close friends

ButtersSuki

Vorenus400 wrote: »

Is this just what you believe or what you want to believe? She was the only person who consistently supported him. Not even Pat Kenny supported him beyond one comment. It was advertisers and management that fecked Hook, not his close friends

You really need to do a bit more research on this subject before you comment further I think. If it weren’t so late and I wasn’t on the phone I’m type a long reply to your post. In short, she was no friend to George when the ah*t hit the fan; she saw an opportunity to advance her own career at his expense and dove in feet first.

Vorenus400

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I think that half hour of radio absolutely BURIED George. He was already in trouble at this point (in spite of having apologised), but when the listening audience observed that his friend / colleague / protegé Ciara Kelly condemned and essentially disowned him, he was gone.

I actually thought she was doing the complete opposite. Someone had to be seen to take George down in public. If they had been smart, they would have got Pat Kenny to do it or on tv Matt Cooper/Ivan Yates to do it.

When the media is against you, it is always better to appear the victim. George Hook is not dumb. He knew he needed to be taken down. Who better to do it than his protege who wouldnt probe too deep, and that is what happened

George was taken down by sponsors. Imagine if the amount of internet hate could take down a celeb? Ray Darcy would be gone in minutes

Tell me how

Vorenus400 wrote:

Is this just what you believe or what you want to believe? She was the only person who consistently supported him. Not even Pat Kenny supported him beyond one comment. It was advertisers and management that fecked Hook, not his close friends

As stated earlier...

Tell me how wrote:

It was my understanding. I'm not staying it as fact. Maybe I misunderstood.

Tell me how

Vorenus400 wrote:

I actually thought she was doing the complete opposite. Someone had to be seen to take George down in public. If they had been smart, they would have got Pat Kenny to do it or on tv Matt Cooper/Ivan Yates to do it.

Who's they?

Pat Kenny spoke out strongly in his favour. If Ivan had been on the radio at the time, I very much think he would have done the same.