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Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    deco nate wrote:
    STOP, just stop

    I think you should go and lie down for a bit. You seem confused and agitated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    Two similar observations posted within 3 minutes of each other are not plagiariasm. Calm down.

    I was asking you if that was the comment he made that led you to believe he had not been to Egypt before. I offered you an alternative interpretation that I think is better supported by other evidence, including media reports and the fact that he knew two of the protestors killed.

    Not sure what putting my thoughts on you is supposed to mean.

    Please tell post the links to the above.
    Thanks, I'll wait


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    deco nate wrote:
    Please tell post the links to the above. Thanks, I'll wait


    Links to what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,748 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    who said i didn't like the answer? i'm very happy with the answer and explanation you gave.

    Ah.. I was confused by your response - the equivalent of "yeah? Well but... so there!"

    If IH did indeed lie on TV the other night (as would be suggested by the videos, the hand thing, the translation of his speech on stage, his physical and mental condition being at odds with living for 4 years in a harsh prison undergoing beatings, torture and hunger strikes etc), then all we know for sure is that the direct intervention of the Irish Government got him released - prior to Leo Vardakar becoming Taoiseach and this subsequent intervention, the Egyptian authorities didn't seem to be in any rush whatsoever (which yes is wrong most definitely - but that's a different issue).

    We have no idea either way really about his innocence, or what really happened over there (the rambling, confused tale he told the other night certainly didn't help clear it up), and when Tubridy tried to dig deeper, his dismissal of any criticism as "haters" and "racists" didn't satisfy the questions either.

    But let's be positive.. the guy is home (and - genuinely - good for him), doesn't APPEAR to be much the worse for his experiences, and plans to do humanitarian work going forward.

    Let's hope he's true to his word on that one anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    Two similar observations posted within 3 minutes of each other are not plagiariasm. Calm down.

    I was asking you if that was the comment he made that led you to believe he had not been to Egypt before. I offered you an alternative interpretation that I think is better supported by other evidence, including media reports and the fact that he knew two of the protestors killed.

    Not sure what putting my thoughts on you is supposed to mean.

    Nope, you wait to see what others post.
    Then you follow suit


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    deco nate wrote:
    Nope, you wait to see what others post. Then you follow suit


    Good grief.

    Bye bye.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    Links to what?

    The one you plagiarized


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    Good grief.

    Bye bye.

    No just goodbye. It's plain to see in you posts. But fair play, you're good at deflecting


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    There was a good piece in the Irish Times last week that described those consular efforts in some detail. It also described how after the initial period, DFA decided to involve the family in their efforts and the result was a good working relationship.

    Funny stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    How long is it till a poster that was called out on the last post?(not by me)

    I'm thinking 24 hours. Maybe 48?


    Crazy that they like, but don't post....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 85,623 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Lucinda Creighton doesn’t believe his story.

    https://twitter.com/lcreighton/status/926574051891515394

    Fair play to her at least one politician is not buying into all the Halawa's lies, their stories are changing more than Kardashians change rappers :p I will probably be accused of being racist now I am not believing the lies

    I don't think IH did himself or his family are favours on LLS as more lies exposed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    First Up wrote: »
    I think you should go and lie down for a bit. You seem confused and agitated.

    No, not me. I'm good.....
    Just loving you're posts. Awaits you're next post to love:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭BillyBobBS


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Lucinda Creighton doesn’t believe his story.

    https://twitter.com/lcreighton/status/926574051891515394

    Creighton has a good point but a good reply on twitter in fairness

    "Well done Lucinda, you got more replies here than you got votes in the last election!!"

    :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    First Up wrote: »
    There was a good piece in the Irish Times last week that described those consular efforts in some detail. It also described how after the initial period, DFA decided to involve the family in their efforts and the result was a good working relationship.

    The definition of "Good Working Relationship" is open to interpretation I'd suggest ?

    However up until the end of August this year,the Irish Government's best efforts were still not of a satisfactory level....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-must-act-if-ibrahim-halawa-not-freed-on-september-18th-family-1.3204968
    She said if the next court date in the case , September 18th, passed without his release and return to Ireland, the Government must initiate proceedings against Egypt at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), on the basis that her brother’s human rights were being violated and Egyptian commitments given to the Irish Government breached.

    The Irish State fully supported and assisted Ibrahim Halawa,from the very first days of his arrest,incarceration and trial,there was nothing more it,or any other Government could have done to have him released.

    It MUST be continually restated that the Irish Government and it's Consular Staff in Egypt went FAR beyond the boundaries of reason as had been the norm up until this case.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ibrahim-halawa-the-inside-story-1.2310182
    That Friday – August 16th, 2013 – Egypt was ablaze. In Firhouse, south Dublin, where she was tending to her two young children, Nosayba Halawa kept an anxious eye on the rolling TV coverage of demonstrations that were convulsing the country of her birth. Nosayba’s sisters Somaia (27), Fatima (23) and Omaima (21), and her brother Ibrahim (17), had departed for Egypt in late June.

    It is only now,that Ibrahim is free,that the heretofore ignored elements begin to bear scrutiny...
    Ibrahim’s parents were born in Egypt, and their extended families live there. So it was common for Ibrahim and his siblings to travel there in summer to spend time with their cousins. Ibrahim had just finished his Leaving Cert when he and his three sisters flew to Cairo in late June. He would later say that he had wanted to go on a post-Leaving Cert holiday to Spain with his friends, but he was asked to accompany his sisters to Egypt. “I wish I’d gone to Spain,” Ibrahim told a visitor last year.

    "He was asked"...presumably to act as some form of acceptable chaperone to his (older) sisters ?

    It is of little importance,as it appears his sisters were/are somewhat more politically active than Ibrahim himself ?
    The Halawas are a religious family; Sheikh Hussein, the Imam of Dublin’s Clonskeagh mosque, is the most prominent Muslim cleric in Ireland.

    The sense of liberation that followed the ousting of Hosni Mubarak in 2011 had been intoxicating, Somaia says. “In Egypt, for once in your life, you had a voice. In Mubarak’s regime, when we went for a holiday, you were not allowed to talk about any politics. Everything was okay. Mubarak was fantastic. No poor people. The economy was perfect.

    “And then you go to Egypt and all of a sudden everyone is talking about politics, everyone is talking about Morsi, everyone is giving out in the media. You felt this freedom.”

    So,much of the "suddenness" surrounding the Halawa children's decision to address a rally,could well have had it's origins far earlier,around his 15th birthday,if that timeline is to be believed ?

    It is surely rare indeed,for ANY Irish citizen involved in a fracas in a Foreign State to be able to engage in personal telephone contact with a serving Ambassador (this revelation continues to puzzle me to this day :) ),yet here we have exactly that...
    It was 3am when news of the stand-off reached Isolde Moylan, who was then Ireland’s ambassador to Egypt. She spoke by phone to Omaima, who told her “thugs” were surrounding the mosque and were “trying to kill us”. (Omaima repeated that message in a live interview on Al-Jazeera from inside the mosque.)

    What developed from this initial contact remains at the very core of what ensued over the following 4 years...
    The ambassador advised the siblings to stay together. “I’ll do what I can to get you out safely,” she said. Irish officials also suggested that the Halawas not draw attention to themselves by giving any more interviews.

    Working her contacts through the early hours of Saturday morning, Moylan eventually reached a brigadier who ran the international cooperation section at the interior ministry.

    Moylan says she and the Irish Government were looking for the Halawas to be guaranteed safe passage out of the mosque. The officer asked if the Halawas wanted to leave; through Moylan they confirmed they did. The brigadier called Moylan back a few minutes later. “That’s settled,” he said.

    The situation was indeed becoming fraught,not alone due to the dreaded oppressive Egyptian Military,but also "the enraged Locals",a grouping which has continually been ignored throughout the Halawa's campaign.
    What happened next remains in dispute two years on. Irish officials say safe passage was guaranteed to the ambassador and the Irish government, and that it would have been guaranteed to the Halawas in person. Under the arrangement, the siblings would be taken from the scene, searched, have their records checked and then be released.

    Irish officials say two groups had already left the mosque and that the deal was explained to the Halawas, but that their phone kept ringing out when the brigadier tried to call them to arrange their exit.

    However, the family says there was no such thing as safe passage, given the confusion at the scene and the fact that the mosque was surrounded by police and angry local residents.

    And there it began....
    The Government insists safe passage was an option. “I have no doubt that the safe passage would have been observed,” says one Dublin-based official,who suggests the siblings may have come under pressure from others inside the mosque not to accept the offer. The official says that at no point was the ambassador asked to come to the mosque as part of the arrangement.

    At about 2pm the next day, security forces entered the mosque and remaining protesters were escorted out. The Halawas, with several hundred others, had been inside for 17 hours. The siblings were split into two groups and put in police vans.

    It looks like even back in 2015,the Irish Government had a good handle on the outcome...
    The most benign scenario, the Government believes, is that Ibrahim is acquitted or receives a relatively light sentence that accords with the period he has already spent in prison.

    Thankfully,it seems that the Irish Governments "good working relationship" with Egypt prevailed.

    With any luck,there may even be more than one Book to be written about this period...;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    deco nate wrote: »
    The one you plagiarized


    which one. when did he do that as i never remember that happening. perhapse it never happened? in fact i reccan that's it. it never happened.
    deco nate wrote: »
    It's plain to see in you posts.

    what is
    deco nate wrote: »
    But fair play, you're good at deflecting

    deflecting what?
    deco nate wrote: »
    Funny stuff.

    what is and in what way is it funny? what's the problem with the family and the department having a good working relationship as did happen?
    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Fair play to her at least one politician is not buying into all the Halawa's lies, their stories are changing more than Kardashians change rappers I will probably be accused of being racist now I am not believing the lies

    I don't think IH did himself or his family are favours on LLS as more lies exposed

    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    which one. when did he do that as i never remember that happening. perhapse it never happened? in fact i reccan that's it. it never happened.



    what is



    deflecting what?



    what is and in what way is it funny? what's the problem with the family and the department having a good working relationship as did happen?



    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?
    Pmsl, I really thought you would give it at least 24 hours. You are funny.
    Trying to drag the discussion backwards so crazy, and so obvious....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Flex


    which one. when did he do that as i never remember that happening. perhapse it never happened? in fact i reccan that's it. it never happened.



    what is



    deflecting what?



    what is and in what way is it funny? what's the problem with the family and the department having a good working relationship as did happen?



    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?


    Nope your rhong


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    which one. when did he do that as i never remember that happening. perhapse it never happened? in fact i reccan that's it. it never happened.



    what is



    deflecting what?



    what is and in what way is it funny? what's the problem with the family and the department having a good working relationship as did happen?



    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?

    Keep on posting, you really are digging deep.
    Loving it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 85,623 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1



    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?

    Really? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    deco nate wrote: »
    Keep on posting, you really are digging deep.
    Loving it!

    Didn't your poster post the same thing last night as well? You know all the replies are so similar and banal - I really can't tell anymore...

    ah well there he goes again ... '"-O-"'


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    gozunda wrote: »
    Didnt the poster post the same thing last night as well? You know all the replies are so similar and banal - I really can't tell anymore...

    ah well there you go '"-O-"'

    Yes he/she did. But they forget soo easy.
    Makes me laugh.
    First Up, I find it funny.... Wait till they get to the end of the road. Ohh wait.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    deco nate wrote: »
    Yes he/she did. But they forget soo easy.
    Makes me laugh.
    First Up, I find it funny.... Wait till they get to the end of the road. Ohh wait.

    I asked that poster for a link last night - to prove what they had stated and poof - they magically disappeared! Maybe it's kinda an inverse Genie perhaps? Dunno but anyway it's all hot air and smoke imo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    No one would hang either on their wall unless they prescribe to both movement's ideologies, and if I were to find out my neighbour was a Nazi or a Jihadist I believe it's perfectly acceptable that I express my opinion that they're a c*nt.

    Agree! No law against being a c*nt unfortunately.
    bajer101 wrote: »
    I'm not in the habit of reporting posts as I believe in free speech, but this post is absolutely outrageous. I think you are trying to bring ISIS into the argument just to make it look like us "racists" are trying to equate IH with ISIS.

    Many people, including yourself, have raised questions over Ibrahim's account of the story. You apparently want "answers".

    Well, what I'm suggesting is there's a number of possibilities at play here and ONE possibility is that Ibrahim was sympathetic to Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS belief systems.

    It's possible. I don't know what was going through his head, neither do you and none of us will ever know.

    But my point is even if he was sympathetic to ISIS/MB ideology i.e. radical Islamism, and that's the true reason he went to the rally, it's not a crime to have extreme opinions. It's also very possible to change those opinions - Maajid Nawaz being a good example.

    So it's irrelevant what he believed back then and what he believes now.

    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    We have no idea either way really about his innocence, or what really happened over there (the rambling, confused tale he told the other night certainly didn't help clear it up),....

    Um. He was acquitted in a court of law. So yeah we have a pretty clear idea he should be treated as such.

    It's an echo chamber in here and none of you have any clue what you actually want other than any excuse to bash Islam or to parrot talking points from that ridiculous far-right-wing cretin Humphrys who masquerades as an "intellectual" authority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    that ridiculous far-right-wing cretin Humphrys who masquerades as an "intellectual" authority.

    with his web site that looks like it was made in 1995.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    @Wonderfullife, I didn't bother reading any of that. You accused me of associating Ibrahim Hallawa with ISIS, when I know for a fact that I didn't. You are a liar.

    Liar

    Liar

    Go away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    I go on holiday in the USA and inadvertently wander upon a Klan rally. I find myself on stage addressing the crowds voicing their beliefs.

    This is not allowed to be questioned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling





    what lies. which lies were exposed on the lls? the lies that are only claimed on here with no tangible evidence to prove they are lies?

    You know where he claimed he was shot in the hand and claimed he couldn't close his hand? You saw the post a few pages back (omackeral) of the picture where he had his hand closed (remember where he stated that due to the gunshot wound he couldn't close his hand).

    There is one great big fat lie fully exposed right there.

    Isn't it?

    EOTR.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    mfceiling wrote: »
    You know where he claimed he was shot in the hand and claimed he couldn't close his hand? You saw the post a few pages back (omackeral) of the picture where he had his hand closed (remember where he stated that due to the gunshot wound he couldn't close his hand).

    There is one great big fat lie fully exposed right there.

    Isn't it?

    EOTR.

    Proof. Evidence. Link.

    (Even though it was plain to see on the most watched television show in the country on a prime time slot, as well as clearly shown here.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭SnakePlissken


    from that ridiculous far-right-wing cretin Humphrys who masquerades as an "intellectual" authority.

    One who is happy to ignore Nazism and Jihadism because "Sure it's not illegal" doesn't get to call someone out as being right wing.

    If you will not stand against homophobia, bigotry, and misogyny, as you have clearly confirmed with your posts, then you are simply an enabler and I have absolutely intention of wasting my time on the likes of you.

    Absolutely disgusting beliefs for one to hold.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    bajer101 wrote: »
    I go on holiday in the USA and inadertently wander upon a Klan rally. I find myself on stage addressing the crowds voicing their beliefs.

    This is not allowed to be questioned.

    And the aul fella was in the Nazi Party and you were sent to America by his right hand man :pac:


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