Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

smurgen

humberklog wrote: »

deco nate wrote: »

Tbf, most people want to know the truth.
Not bs lies

My view is he's a fairly "out there" Muslim whose family and mosque brethren hold far different ideas about how a society should be run than I (and the majority of people in this society do).

My own big gripe is how the media, politicians and pressure groups swallowed a pack of mistruths from the Halawa family with no critical investigation of the facts at hand and passed off a troubling broad story as a virtuous narrow narrative.
The sisters were able to push their agenda unquestioned onto the media.
The detractors to Halawa line were (and are) branded racist loonies.

To bring the vast majority of investigative journalism in Ireland's media to this is an appalling vista.
I don't blame the Halawa sisters or the young skip Ib. You'd only expect them to do what they did and in fairness they've done a cracking job of it: getting their foolish brother out of prison.

But the notion of journalism today rightly questioning the gender pay gap, homophobia, sexual harassment and yet championing this clusterf...doesn't square easily. Particularly when Comment prices in those papers are the same people championing Ibrahamin and his family.

I hope the bloke does well in life, maybe he and his family will appreciate the generousity shown to them by a Zapone, Gorman and Vradkar and maybe, just maybe, there mosque might stop thinking gay people should be killed because of how they live their lives.

Back to your post Deco: the truth is known about him, his family and his mosque. If the Irish media won't print it it's hardly worth looking for the Halawas to admit it.

Excellent post to be fair and makes alot of gpod points. I noticed some muslims folk on the free ibrahim halawa page voice concerns at the family and the carryon in the mosque.the facebook posts are there to see for anyone interest. These people are clearly not the voice of the more moderate muslims.

deco nate

smurgen wrote: »

Excellent post to be fair and makes alot of gpod points. I noticed some muslims folk on the free ibrahim halawa page voice concerns at the family and the carryon in the mosque.the facebook posts are there to see for anyone interest. These people are clearly not the voice of the more moderate muslims.

Oh yes. A lot of Muslims have spoken out against the Clonskeagh Mosque.

end of the road

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It undermines his entire story and his credibility... if he's willing to "tell a few lies" on national TV, how do we know what parts of the story are true - if any?

As I said earlier on, the entire performance seemed carefully scripted and designed to evoke the maximum amount of sympathy for him, with emphasis on the narrative of him being just in the wrong place, at the wrong time and still wanting to be a humanitarian despite it all.

But his body language didn't support his story, nor did his delivery. Those too suggested that there was more to the story than he was telling.

the reality is all of that means jot. not only is it ultimately opinion, but the fact is he was tried and acquited on all charges. any of the other allegations made here have no evidential basis to prove their accuracy.

wonderfullife

bajer101 wrote: »

The thing is, that is not we have been querying. Same way we haven't really been saying that he burnt his passport.

What do you care if he was formerly (or currently) sympathetic towards ISIS? It's not a crime to emotionally "support" terrorists and you'll find that the IRA and ETA had broad public support among the Irish/Basque community for a long period of time.

There are millions of Muslims globally who sympathise with the "plight" in the Middle East and are sympathetic towards "fighting the oppressors", but again, these people have no intention of ever committing a crime themselves at home.

If your next door neighbour hangs a black ISIS flag or a neo-nazi flag on their bedroom wall but lives their whole life as a law-abiding-citizen, never once breaking the law, what's the problem with that?

It's not against the law to hold fruitcake opinions.

deco nate wrote: »

But bs comments/statements by the family, And some posters on here. Keeps people wanting to know the real truth.
That's all, just stop with the lies.

If he came out and said "confession - I actually went to Egypt to kick up a stink and cause trouble, I was young and foolish"....

Then what? He was already tried in court and acquitted. He won't be tried again.

Odhinn

smurgen wrote: »

So do you have any issue with what i said in my post? The content of my post? It took me time to put together.i think and hope i articulated myself enough in it.

I don't agree with it, as intelligent decent people can often believe rather stupid things.

deco nate

end of the road wrote: »

the reality is all of that means jot. not only is it ultimately opinion, but the fact is he was tried and acquited on all charges. any of the other allegations made here have no evidential basis to prove their accuracy.

Gunshot wound to the hand?........

SnakePlissken

wonderfullife wrote: »

If my next door neighbour hangs a black ISIS flag or a neo-nazi flag on their bedroom wall but lives their whole life as a law-abiding-citizen, never once breaking the law, what's the problem with that?

No one would hang either on their wall unless they prescribe to both movement's ideologies, and if I were to find out my neighbour was a Nazi or a Jihadist I believe it's perfectly acceptable that I express my opinion that they're a c*nt.

deco nate

Odhinn wrote: »

I don't agree with it, as intelligent decent people can often believe rather stupid things.

OK... 1st of 11 2017...
Good point

bajer101

wonderfullife wrote: »

What do you care if he was formerly (or currently) sympathetic towards ISIS? It's not a crime to emotionally "support" terrorists and you'll find that the IRA and ETA had broad public support among the Irish/Basque community for a long period of time.

There are millions of Muslims globally who sympathise with the "plight" in the Middle East and are sympathetic towards "fighting the oppressors", but again, these people have no intention of ever committing a crime themselves at home.

If my next door neighbour hangs a black ISIS flag or a neo-nazi flag on their bedroom wall but lives their whole life as a law-abiding-citizen, never once breaking the law, what's the problem with that?

I'm not in the habit of reporting posts as I believe in free speech, but this post is absolutely outrageous. I think you are trying to bring ISIS into the argument just to make it look like us "racists" are trying to equate IH with ISIS. We're not. I never mentioned ISIS. You quoted me and then suddenly threw ISIS into the equation! You are obviously looking for a reaction by talking about people hanging ISIS flags. Maybe hoping that this will steer the discussion into an area away from the now established facts of the Halawa case? Perhaps create an opportunity to throw around the word Islamophobe?

Actually, I won't report your post. I think it should be left there in all its glory to be seen for what it really is and to also remind us of the type of debater you are.

deco nate

wonderfullife wrote: »

What do you care if he was formerly (or currently) sympathetic towards ISIS? It's not a crime to emotionally "support" terrorists and you'll find that the IRA and ETA had broad public support among the Irish/Basque community for a long period of time.

There are millions of Muslims globally who sympathise with the "plight" in the Middle East and are sympathetic towards "fighting the oppressors", but again, these people have no intention of ever committing a crime themselves at home.

If your next door neighbour hangs a black ISIS flag or a neo-nazi flag on their bedroom wall but lives their whole life as a law-abiding-citizen, never once breaking the law, what's the problem with that?

It's not against the law to hold fruitcake opinions.



If he came out and said "confession - I actually went to Egypt to kick up a stink and cause trouble, I was young and foolish"....

Then what? He was already tried in court and acquitted. He won't be tried again.

You're posts are getting more erratic/crazy as you post

bajer101

deco nate wrote: »

You're posts are getting more erratic/crazy as you post

There's a bit of "does not compute" going on in the Student Union digs at the moment. Logic errors are causing serious system breakdowns and increasingly desperate strategies.

mfceiling

222233 wrote: »

i can't stream the video from the Late Late show for some reason (I have only seen the Youtube clips). Does anyone know how they ended up at the protest? Was that covered in the interview?

He went to the cinema with friends.

Stumbled upon a rally.

Out of the thousands of people that were there he managed to be singled out to address the crowd.

Seems legit...

The_Kew_Tour

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'm surprised you needed to think about the word, seeing as you're an expert in it.

I can't find one post you've made in this thread that provides evidence Ibrahim committed a crime or is likely to commit a crime in the future but you've made plenty of "What about his da?" comments...

What's the word for that again? :rolleyes:

For the record if you (or anyone else) have firm evidence he is about to commit a crime, you should trot off to the local garda station and inform them.

Meanwhile,

Vegas Shooting Incident: 58 dead, 546 injured, dozens of Irish within walking distance caught up in the unfolding terror.

Reaction:



London Underground Incident: 0 dead, 29 minor injuries:

Reaction:




















You seem to have plenty to say when a certain type of person does something bad and barely a peep to say when it's a different type of person doing it.

There's words for that too.

I nearly fell off the chair laughing at your post. Keep your obsession with me strong. I love a good stalker.

Still not taken up my offer on viewing my Twitter page? Oh no Cause that would hurt your obsession.

Keep it lit lad you are only making a tit of yourself.

deco nate

First Up wrote: »

Of course, but the family's practice of visiting their relatives in Egypt seems to be widely accepted. But yes, lets get some evidence of that.

By whom?
State facts.

First Up

mfceiling wrote:

Stumbled upon a rally.

You forgot the bit about the two guys he knew being among the 800+ demonstrators killed that the rally was called to protest about.

bajer101

As a bit of intelligent musical relief, here is the brilliant Billy Bragg explaining how Brexiters feel. I'm a Halawa critic, but agree with pretty much everything Billy says here. It's almost as if I have freedom of thought.

https://youtu.be/a5dm-Whhhio

deco nate

First Up wrote: »

Where he said his father said "you haven't been to Egypt"?

I can see how you are interpreting that as meaning "you have never been to Egypt" but I think he meant you haven't been for a while. (He also talked about meeting up with Egyptian friends who were subsequently killed.)

It has been widely reported (and not challenged) that the children visited their Egyptian cousins on a regular basis - almost every year.

I'm sure it can be clarified.

Well done for plagiarising the last poster that replied to my post, no really. Well done.
Please don't tell me what I have seen and twist it.
Just say what YOU THINK.
Don't ever put you're thoughts on me.
Thank you

gozunda

end of the road wrote: »

they got the truth. they refuse to believe it.

You can't handle the truth ...

deco nate

First Up wrote: »

You forgot the bit about the two guys he knew being among the 800+ demonstrators killed that the rally was called to protest about.

OHH yea, what were names again? Cos not once have I heard him name them.

mfceiling

deco nate wrote: »

By whom?
State facts.

Seems to be a case of...

"I was shot in the hand and now I can't close it"
*closes hand without realising*

Silence from posters.

"I was there on holidays and just ended up at a Muslim Brotherhood rally"
*bit unbelievable there IH*

Posters..."he's telling the truth, the rest of you are racists"

Do you supporters not think that if he can lie about a gunshot wound to the hand then surely he could bend the truth about being out there on holidays?

First Up

deco nate wrote:

By whom? State facts.

The detailed accounts in the Irish Times, BBC and Huffington Post are three.

AlekSmart

First Up wrote: »

The evidence I would like is something to support the accusations that he is a menace to society - Ireland's in particular. Got any?

I do not see much evidence,on this thread,or elsewhere,of the supposed threat posed by Ibrahim Halawa.

Some posters go off on one,with wild assertions based largely upon poorly researched opinions.

By far the majority of nay-sayers,muself included,tend to be far more concerned at the long running,and often harsh levels of criticism levelled against Irish Government Ministers and Dept of Foreign Affairs Staff who were directly and heavily involved over the entireity of Ibrahim Halawa's arrest & detention.

It was only upon his release,that the Irish State recieved any recognition or thanks for it's deployment of Diplomatic & Consular resources at a heretofore unheard of level,and that recognition came from Ibrahim Halawa himself,something which I suggest is telling in itself.

Ibrahim Halawa,is no menace to Irish society,I rather suggest that,left to his own devices he will become a very productive & integral part of it.

However,insofar as the young 17 year old Ibrahim was permitted,even encouraged,to travel into an already well flagged conflict zone,one which Imam Halawa would have been more famliar with than most,one can hardly ignore the many people who either remain,or who have become sceptical of the background to this entire stunt.

There are so many other individuals involved,whose opinions could well add,to our appreciation of what reasoning exactly,lay behind the postponement of the Ibiza trip in favour of a bit of heavier campaigning in Cairo.

smurgen

Odhinn wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

So do you have any issue with what i said in my post? The content of my post? It took me time to put together.i think and hope i articulated myself enough in it.

I don't agree with it, as intelligent decent people can often believe rather stupid things.

True but i would question their judgement and there's various types of intelligence. Emotion intelligent people tend to not believe in religions that look to control others and call for the deaths of people because of their lifestyle choices. I say tend to as there are always exceptions.

_Kaiser_

end of the road wrote: »

the reality is all of that means jot. not only is it ultimately opinion, but the fact is he was tried and acquited on all charges. any of the other allegations made here have no evidential basis to prove their accuracy.

You asked what difference it would make if indeed he did tell a few lies about what happened. I've explained it to you.

The fact that you don't like the answer is a different issue.

gozunda

wonderfullife wrote: »

The point is there's a hugely disproportionate reaction to Ibrahim coming home and it's fully related to his religion - as you can easily see from the different reactions to violence when committed by someone of the Islamic faith and someone not of Islamic faith.

No I don't see that at all from what you have posted. That remains 'your' interpretation and looking at what you selectively posted- you are flinging mud because you disagree with the posters opinions. It's a discussion not kindergarten.

wonderfullife wrote: »

I wasn't "attacking" anyone for their beliefs or posts, I was pointing out the irrational fear is based on religion. I've nothing to fear from Ibrahim until I see evidence he's a danger to anybody. I've seen none.

So you are saying that someone's opinions are 'irrational' in comparison to your 'rational" ones. And you think that is a balanced viewpoint? Really?

First Up

deco nate wrote:

Well done for plagiarising the last poster that replied to my post, no really. Well done. Please don't tell me what I have seen and twist it. Just say what YOU THINK. Don't ever put you're thoughts on me. Thank you

Two similar observations posted within 3 minutes of each other are not plagiariasm. Calm down.

I was asking you if that was the comment he made that led you to believe he had not been to Egypt before. I offered you an alternative interpretation that I think is better supported by other evidence, including media reports and the fact that he knew two of the protestors killed.

Not sure what putting my thoughts on you is supposed to mean.

end of the road

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You asked what difference it would make if indeed he did tell a few lies about what happened. I've explained it to you.

The fact that you don't like the answer is a different issue.

who said i didn't like the answer? i'm very happy with the answer and explanation you gave.

bajer101

Mark Humphrys is pointing out that Ibrahim said in his interview that the protests were attended by members of Christians for the Coup. Mark says that this is a Nazi organisation. He's technically correct, but he's milking it a bit. I like and respect Mark and suspect that he is really trying to use this as a fúck you to the people on twitter who keep accusing him of being a nazi. I don't blame him. I spoke up in a couple of twitter threads he was on supporting him and immediately got abused. The abuse he gets subjected to is shocking.

First Up

AlekSmart wrote:

It was only upon his release,that the Irish State recieved any recognition or thanks for it's deployment of Diplomatic & Consular resources at a heretofore unheard of level,and that recognition came from Ibrahim Halawa himself,something which I suggest is telling in itself.

There was a good piece in the Irish Times last week that described those consular efforts in some detail. It also described how after the initial period, DFA decided to involve the family in their efforts and the result was a good working relationship.

deco nate

First Up wrote: »

The detailed accounts in the Irish Times, BBC and Huffington Post are three.

Of the starving, beatings, mistreatment,. And who told them of said crimes.?
You asked me a question earlier today asking me to post a video were he said it was his first time going to Egypt.
I told you, then you waited and plagiarized the post that replied to me.
Yet you still try to put down the facts. Don't reply to me, you already posted that I'm wrong and you're right with that stupid post say *I believe he was talking about his dad telling him he hasn't be over in a while *

STOP, just stop