Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Samaris wrote: »

Well, given the Cork crowd are using the flag to indicate that they are "rebels", it is hardly a far reach to assume that having taken that much meaning from it, they're probably taking the rest. It's a ridiculous notion anyway. What's wrong with the Cork colours?

If they really want a red flag, why are they not using the hammer and sickle? It would be more red at least than the stripey starred one. And they can't be too worried about connotations, all things considered.


It's not bloody hard. Get red flag. Sorted. Maybe even be a little inventive with it and give it a meaning rather than trying to co-opt someone else's flag with its own history.

The comments from Cork fans on social media today, who believe they are being oppressed, are hilarious. Maybe they're just too stingy to get a new flag.

Danzy

Samaris wrote: »

Well, given the Cork crowd are using the flag to indicate that they are "rebels", it is hardly a far reach to assume that having taken that much meaning from it, they're probably taking the rest. It's a ridiculous notion anyway. What's wrong with the Cork colours?

If they really want a red flag, why are they not using the hammer and sickle? It would be more red at least than the stripey starred one. And they can't be too worried about connotations, all things considered.


It's not bloody hard. Get red flag. Sorted. Maybe even be a little inventive with it and give it a meaning rather than trying to co-opt someone else's flag with its own history.

The Japanese Imperial rising sun flag is also used, a flag with a very bloody history, sure the USSR flag has tens of millions of dead behind it, one of the 3 most brutal States of the last century. I have seen that at games.

The obsession with what flags people in Cork fly is so far down the list of priorities or relevance that it is bizarre to even bring it up.

It is the sort of nonsense that really grinds people gears, just imagine being at a game, the same flag you have had for 20 years on a stick, enjoying it with your friends and some random asshole starts lecturing you.

I get the point people are making about it but that 1950s Priest hectoring the parish approach is never going to work, it is wearing down life long supporters of the left.

Tony EH

Overheal wrote: »

They are both white supremacists whom are very vocally supportive of the Alt-Right. Milo even works for Breitbart, Bannon's flagship, which Bannon himself stated last July was a platform for the Alt-Right.

Not any more. Milo got ejected after some stupid remarks and frankly it was only a matter of time before he imploded.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Guilt by association alone, then. Can you find any neo-Nazi content in anything Yiannapolos has said? He's a cultural nationalist, sure, but that's not the same as being a white supremacist. He doesn't take issue with minority races, but minority cultures which he views as incompatible with Western values.

I disagree with him on just about everything except his views on free speech, which in my view the world needs a massive dose of at the moment - particularly the mainstream media.

Milo was just an asshole. An attention seeking queen that loved the limelight that being part of this noisy alt-right nonsense afforded him. He would have happily sided with any group, if they acted as a conduit for him be "outrageous" in the public eye.

He was the alt-right's wild card. But, I'd wager there were many on the right that absolutely loathed him for being a Jew and gay.

Unfortunately, Milo got schooled in the fact that you simply cannot say anything you want without consequence. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to say anything you wish in public and get up the next morning as if nothing happened. You have to be adult about your content and deal with the consequences of what you have to say.

Even the people he thought were his own turned their back on him in the end.

red ears

super_furry wrote: »

Turn off the internet and stop looking for idiots on tumblr and in their own self-selecting community and I simply don't believe that's happening in wider society. Sure there's the fringe lunatics in universities but they've always been there. It's no mistake that the current generation of white nationalists are the first generation to have grown up online.

I'm afraid it runs deeper than that. Some universities have modules on white privilege and deconstructing whiteness, abolition of whiteness etc.

Google evergreen university day without whites.

20Cent

red ears wrote: »

I'm afraid it runs deeper than that. Some universities have modules on white privilege and deconstructing whiteness, abolition of whiteness etc.

Google evergreen university day without whites.

Which university has a module on the abolition of whites?

Rjd2

Tony EH wrote: »

Not any more. Milo got ejected after some stupid remarks and frankly it was only a matter of time before he imploded.



Milo was just an asshole. An attention seeking queen that loved the limelight that being part of this noisy alt-right nonsense afforded him. He would have happily sided with any group, if they acted as a conduit for him be "outrageous" in the public eye.

He was the alt-right's wild card. But, I'd wager there were many on the right that absolutely loathed him for being a Jew and gay.

Unfortunately, Milo got schooled in the fact that you simply cannot say anything you want without consequence. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to say anything you wish in public and get up the next morning as if nothing happened. You have to be adult about your content and deal with the consequences of what you have to say.

Even the people he thought were his own turned their back on him in the end.

Milo was loathed by many on the right because his political beliefs were little more exciting than "piss of lefties~!" which to be fair has proven to be financially rewarding to many.

Many conservatives loathed him, because he had little depth to anything he said and he getting spotlight done them no favours by association.

I think the below an article I linked before is worth a read. Its written by a libertarian whose initial opinion of Milo is somewhat favourable, but the more you dig into him, he is ultimately much worse than those who he is attacking and ultimately detrimental to the young libertarian/right wing normal people (yes they are some!) who could be tempted to copy him.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-milo-yiannopoulos-the-appealing-young-face-of-the-racist-alt-right?via=twitter_page

red ears

20Cent wrote: »

Which university has a module on the abolition of whiteness?

Hunter College, City University of New York.

Danzy

Rjd2 wrote: »

Milo was loathed by many on the right because his political beliefs were little more exciting than "piss of lefties~!" which to be fair has proven to be financially rewarding to many.

Many conservatives loathed him, because he had little depth to anything he said and he getting spotlight done them no favours by association.

I think the below an article I linked before is worth a read. Its written by a libertarian whose initial opinion of Milo is somewhat favourable, but the more you dig into him, he is ultimately much worse than those who he is attacking and ultimately detrimental to the young libertarian/right wing normal people (yes they are some!) who could be tempted to copy him.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-milo-yiannopoulos-the-appealing-young-face-of-the-racist-alt-right?via=twitter_page

Milo is a flamboyant gay Jew with a fetish for blackmen and he'll tell that to a telephone pole. Do the hard Alt Right like him, not at all.

His talks are never that well attended in Universities in America or elsewhere, so I think a lot take him with a pinch of salt, he says some things that are reasonable and some that are pure trollish and that part has made him rich.

If no one reacted his talks wouldn't be watched, people watch for the put downs his acerbic reaction etc.

He wouldn't fill the Parish hall if he hadn't have been helped so much by people reacting to him.

Does he have political beliefs, possible but I doubt it.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

There has been a somewhat comical response from self styled 'voice of a generation' Randy Marsh Lorde, who manages to make a massive racist generalisation in a post about racists.

https://twitter.com/lorde/status/896528771636903936


Got that, whitey? It's all your fault!

Danzy

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

There has been a somewhat comical response from self styled 'voice of a generation' Randy Marsh Lorde, who manages to make a massive racist generalisation in a post about racists.

https://twitter.com/lorde/status/896528771636903936


Got that, whitey? It's all your fault!

It is truly bizarre things like this, mind boggling.

It presents an opportunity for people like Corbyn, Clinton, Obama etc to be blunt with the many who come out with this. just say" shut up you self-indulgent fool".

60K people liked it on Twitter!!

If you liked that it is because you have money in the bank, serious opportunities lined up and an ego that that would have you in the same Narcissism Therapy Group as The Donald.

For Forks Sake

red ears wrote: »

I'm afraid it runs deeper than that. Some universities have modules on white privilege and deconstructing whiteness, abolition of whiteness etc.

Google evergreen university day without whites.

So an incredibly low-ranked college where "there are no formal majors. Students design their undergraduate degree themselves" come up with a daft idea, and it's supposed to be representative of the entire US education system?

Sounds like a $24000/year creche tbh

Chips Lovell

No terrorist act happens in a vacuum, in the sense that the perpetrators will always have some excuse for their actions, something they claim has "driven them" to such an extreme act. Islamic terrorists will blame it on Western support for corrupt regimes, IRA bombers will blame it on the British presence in Northern Ireland, and neo-Nazis will claim the white race is under threat or whatever. All terrorists think their acts are in some way justified.

There is a tendency towards some absolutist thinking in some quarters when discussing this stuff. While there is a pleasingly simplistic logic to saying "all opinions deserve to be heard, nobody should be silenced," the truth is a bit more complex. As a civilised society, we do decide that some positions are beyond the pale and are no longer up for debate. We don't go around saying that paedophiles deserve to have their voice heard or people who believe in slavery. You would have thought that Nazis, neo-Nazis, or any other flavour of Nazis would be in the same bracket at this point and indeed there's a good few European countries where that's the case and such organisations are just outright illegal.

People have been staging counter-demonstrations against fascists for about as long as fascism has existed. Indeed the Nazis themselves were for years, prior to seizure of power, involved in street battles with those who opposed them. Some of those people were probably almost as bad and would have established a brutal communist dictatorship if they'd been let. Some of them were ordinary decent democrats. At the time, it might have even been that obvious which was which.

Counterdemonstration isn't always the answer of course. Sometimes you're just giving these people far more publicity than they would have gotten if ignored. And sometimes you're just giving these people exactly what they want: conflict. And sometimes the people who ally themselves with you as almost as big assholes as those your protesting against.

Long story short, none of this is very new.

If you'd asked me at the start of the weekend if guys who looked like they were doing some roleplaying game with homemade shields and mountain bike helmets (wtf?) were something to be worried about, I would have yawned. Now I'm not that sure.

Rjd2

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

There has been a somewhat comical response from self styled 'voice of a generation' Randy Marsh Lorde, who manages to make a massive racist generalisation in a post about racists.

https://twitter.com/lorde/status/896528771636903936


Got that, whitey? It's all your fault!

She is young and she means well, but that ultimately is as reactionary and silly as blaming all Muslims anytime some loon commits an attack.

Nothing good comes out of it, its cat nip to those are leading young impressionable white kids astray and when you consider how young her base is, drilling into them beliefs that all white people are awful is not a good road to go down.

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder what would have happened if a few black guys turned up kitted out in all the tactical gear and assault rifles like the white supremacists did.

Or a single muslim

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Danzy wrote: »

The Japanese Imperial rising sun flag is also used, a flag with a very bloody history, sure the USSR flag has tens of millions of dead behind it, one of the 3 most brutal States of the last century. I have seen that at games.

The obsession with what flags people in Cork fly is so far down the list of priorities or relevance that it is bizarre to even bring it up.

It is the sort of nonsense that really grinds people gears, just imagine being at a game, the same flag you have had for 20 years on a stick, enjoying it with your friends and some random asshole starts lecturing you.

I get the point people are making about it but that 1950s Priest hectoring the parish approach is never going to work, it is wearing down life long supporters of the left.

I don't approve of the Imperial Japanese Flag either. Having lived in Korea, I'm very aware of the suffering the Japanese Empire brought about. I haven't seen Hammers and Sickles at their games but I wouldn't approve of that either.

If someone has been waving a flag at games for 20 years and doesn't know what the flag means, I would suspect that they are quite dense.

Tony EH

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

There has been a somewhat comical response from self styled 'voice of a generation' Randy Marsh Lorde, who manages to make a massive racist generalisation in a post about racists.

https://twitter.com/lorde/status/896528771636903936


Got that, whitey? It's all your fault!

:rolleyes:

There simply aren't enough words to express how much I hate Twitter. One of the absolute worst things about the web.

Professor Moriarty

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Well, I've yet to hear a plausible explanation as to why Cork fans are still flying it. All I've seen is people like you getting angry at me and telling me I'm wrong- ironically, the very behviour that I'm accused of.

Because they are alt right white supremacists who want the return of segregation. It's obvious innit. There couldn't possibly be any other explanation.

Samaris

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Because they are alt right white supremacists who want the return of segregation. It's obvious innit. There couldn't possibly be any other explanation.

It is quite possible that they're kinda eejits.

WinnyThePoo

Samaris wrote: »

It is quite possible that they're kinda eejits.

Eejits is far too kind of a word. I used the term cesspool of idiocy.

Fascism is disgusting. It something we read in history books. It's something we wish as a society won't come back into the western democracy.

Sadly education levels in the States are terribly low.

The best way to fight it is education. Education sadly can't stop all hate. These young men have been indoctrinated into hate through lies, propaganda, disillusionment and a promise of an America that doesn't exist anymore.

All I see are idiots and I feel sorry for them. They really won't have a fulfilling life.

ancapailldorcha

I don't know why people are talking about Cork GAA but let's get back on topic please.

hatrickpatrick

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Well over a year ago  HatrickPatrick posted this thread, the opening post hit the nail on the head about a lot of things regarding why people are turned towards Trump etc .
https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057610818

Jesus Christ, that was a full year ago? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

This sadly is one of those times when I really wish I'd been proven wrong. The world was heading in a scary direction at that time, and I think it's safe to say that we're rapidly approaching the scary destination which was set in motion all the way back then.

hatrickpatrick

Tony EH wrote: »

This may be correct to some degree Patrick, but, I think it's reasonable to conclude that any (even moderately) intelligent whites / men / white men, would come to understand the deeper politics of that so-called alt-right movement very quickly and be abhorred.

Unless they agree with that deeper politics, of course.

A few words out of the likes of Richard Spencer is enough to draw a solid conclusion.

If you lie down with dogs...etc

I agree to a point. However, many of these people are still very young - as evidenced by the fact that it's late highschoolers and college students who have really been at the forefront of the "culture wars" of recent years. Think back to what you were like at 18, or even 22... I was a muppet, I'll freely admit that anyway, and while I didn't support anything as abhorrent as white nationalism I certainly fairly deeply down a few similar rabbit holes, in my case it was hardline MGTOW stuff based on what I saw as the crappy deal men get in relationships in terms of societal pressure (as people in that movement used to say, women have rights, men have responsibilities) and when you're that age, it really can be very easy to be taken in by well written, even if poorly founded, propaganda. Now, as a guy in Ireland at the time (before the culture wars reached their tentacles across the Atlantic) there was comparatively little by way of anti-male propaganda that would make one resentful in that manner (I was attracted to it by two issues, Ireland's discriminatory underage sex rules which paint underage boys as the automatic "aggressor", and a BBC ad campaign against teenagers being possessive in relationships - all of which showed a guy as the abuser and all while I myself was being blackmailed into a toxic and abusive relationship by a particularly nasty woman I knew at the time) - however, the "men suck and are fair game for hate speech" brigade was already well underway in the United States.
It was around the turn of the 2010s that the "it's impossible to be sexist against men because privilege, therefore I can say 'all men are pigs' and it doesn't count as sexism - but don't you dare talk back to me or you're mansplaining" bullsh!t started to seep from regressive left fringe groups into mainstream academic, and shortly thereafter media, discourse. In the United States, this was accompanied by the "if you were born white, you have a sort of 'original sin' which you must repent for and feel ashamed by" trope, and I can only imagine how that kind of thing might f*ck up the minds of impressionable young people in their late teens and early twenties.

If you look at the apparent age profile of the alt-right, you'll find that old-timer racists such as Bannon and Spencer are essentially bandwagoning off a "new wave" of white male anger from fairly young people, which doesn't have its roots in pure, simple racism but in a reactionary resentment at being branded the bogeymen of society even if the individual hasn't done anything wrong. When those two echo chambers merged, in my view that's when the radicalisation massively accelerated and, to use a meteorology term, underwent "rapid intensification" (when a hurricane goes from category one to category 3 or higher in a matter of hours).

Let me ask you this - if you think my theory is complete balls, which is of course your prerogative, then how would you explain the fact that the young, online based alt-right is so deeply entwined with anti-feminism and a hatred of political correctness? It's no accident, in my view - the hate speech was directed against "young white men" so therefore the reactionary movement is reacting to that entire label-smearing, not just the "white" part.

I am not in any way saying that these people are right, but I certainly believe that some of them were impressionable young people easily led astray when they began this movement half a decade ago - and that the anger which caused them to do so had its roots in extremely legitimate grievances, grievances which are growing every single day as the snide, smug battering of "straight, white men" from newspapers and academia proliferates.

In my view, as a society, we ignore this issue at our own peril.

A Little Pony

Tearing down statues won't make any difference, millions of Southerners still love Lee and Jackson regardless.

rossie1977

Using excuses and blaming the victims is way off base. I remember the first time I visited the states back in the late 1990s radio was dominated by far right and conspiracy theories. In early 2010 in California (one of the most liberal states) we were talking with a taxi driver getting ready for civil war due to the immigrants/blacks etc over-running the country.

The Republicans, the kochs, Murdoch, roger stone etc are a big reason for the problems today. The tea party stuff exasperated the issue and brought the underlining hate into the mainstream and that movement was fully backed by a sector of the Republican party and fox news.

marcus001

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Eejits is far too kind of a word. I used the term cesspool of idiocy.

Fascism is disgusting. It something we read in history books. It's something we wish as a society won't come back into the western democracy.

Sadly education levels in the States are terribly low.

The best way to fight it is education. Education sadly can't stop all hate. These young men have been indoctrinated into hate through lies, propaganda, disillusionment and a promise of an America that doesn't exist anymore.

All I see are idiots and I feel sorry for them. They really won't have a fulfilling life.

Can we also counter indoctrinate people against communism while we're at it? Don't see why we should only be targeting one ideology.

WinnyThePoo

marcus001 wrote: »

Can we also counter indoctrinate people against communism while we're at it? Don't see why we should only be targeting one ideology.

I'm not sure what your getting at. Who are the communists? . Can you expand?

Manic Moran

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I don't approve of the Imperial Japanese Flag either. Having lived in Korea, I'm very aware of the suffering the Japanese Empire brought about. I haven't seen Hammers and Sickles at their games but I wouldn't approve of that either.

If someone has been waving a flag at games for 20 years and doesn't know what the flag means, I would suspect that they are quite dense.

We have had a problem with one of our products, a WW2-era naval wargame. Due to protest from Korean players, the powers-that-are decided to remove the historically correct sunburst flag from the backs of IJN ships, and replace it with the current Japanese national flag.

The stupidity of it is that the sunburst flag is still the official flag of the JMSDF, and the Korean Navy seems to have figured out how to work in friendship with it.

http://i.imgur.com/leNqG7F.jpg

Worse, the flag flown by the IJA in Korea during the occupation is actually a bit different to the flag flown by the IJN or the current JMSDF. (The sun is centered on one, offset on the other)

FTA69

To be honest I don't the people at Charlotteville as a natural consequence of young men being brutally silenced and denigrated by the PC left, I see them as nasty, bigoted arseholes who feel they're now in a position to be more open about their neo-Nazi politics than they were before.

And I'm not exaggerating here by the way, "Nazi" is a perfectly adequate term for someone who brandishes a swastika, gives straight arm salutes and advocates white supremacy. These were they type of people on show last week, and this was the ideology that motivated one of their activists to plough a car into protestors.

I think the root cause of people voting Trump (and people like him across the world) is economic insecurity and a feeling of helplessness as jobs and social protections are stripped away. I also think the vast majority of Trump voters would be disgusted by skinhead yobs flying a swastika flag.

Akrasia

There is a picture going around of 4 white men beating an unarmed black man in Charleston with wooden poles while another white man points a 9mm pistol at people trying to save him and a photographer taking pictures of the assault





These people are scum.

marcus001

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I'm not sure what your getting at. Who are the communists? . Can you expand?

If were going to make it the business of the state to counter indoctrinate people against harmful ideologies can we make sure to include the ideologies I fear as well? Or should my taxes only be used to "educate" people against the ones that you fear.

In case you're unaware, Antifa is made up of communists and anarchists.