UFC 214 - DC vs Jones

akelly02

Maia Decision

walshb wrote: »

Whatever about rds being close for me DC looked like a complete plodder in the octagon against Jones. Out of shape too.

Stick to the boxing. he was far from plodding

walshb

xckjoo wrote: »

In 214? We must have been watching different fights.

Yes, in comparison to Jones he was plodding.

xckjoo

walshb wrote: »

Yes, in comparison to Jones he was plodding.

Not even a little bit.

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

Chael holding back:

"Jon is a dumb-dumb with 7 kids by 6 different women. When you start spreading those payments around money gets tight fast, those alimony's don't go away, so things are not going to go well for him, he's just not a bright guy he's not going to transition to being a local insurance salesman because he's a dumb-dumb. He doesn't remotely have the type of money that people think he has. Seminar fees might make him like 2 grand but if he wants any kind of self-preservation he needs to go radio silent."

CatFromHue

Does Jon really have that many kids by that many mothers?

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

CatFromHue wrote: »

Does Jon really have that many kids by that many mothers?

If he doesn't he should probably be suing Chael lol.

He wasn't joking put it that way.

Mellor

Maia Decision

marcus001 wrote: »

Its not that expensive

It probably is relatively to the supplements that are supposedly tainted with it. If a supplement company were adding oral steroids to their beign testo-booster, it would brobably cost them more than the $25 price tag.

marcus001

Woodley KO/TKO

Mellor wrote: »

It probably is relatively to the supplements that are supposedly tainted with it. If a supplement company were adding oral steroids to their beign testo-booster, it would brobably cost them more than the $25 price tag.

That's not how supplements get contaminated. It's not that they're spiking their supplements with illegal stuff, although some supplement companies have put cheap dodgy amphetamines in their preworkouts in the past, but that's a side issue.

A lot of these supplement companies don't have the highest standards in their factories. They may use the same vats to mix different supplements.

For example, back when prohormones were all the rage, MuscleTech (I think) produced a few batches of supplements which were contaminated because they had previously used the same vats to produce prohormones and trace amounts were left on the surface of the vats causing false positives. There wasn't nearly enough of the stuff to actually cause any benefits, but enough to appear in a drug test. The testing agency actually went to the facility to test the vats and discovered this. This was an extremely unlikely occurrence at the time but it has been used as an excuse by cheaters ever since.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.

Even the dick pill story, although it is plausible that some of these pills are made in underground labs along side steroids, the question is why would he buy dick pills from an underground steroid lab instead of a pharmacy? It's all lies.

Mellor

Maia Decision

marcus001 wrote: »

That's not how supplements get contaminated. It's not that they're spiking their supplements with illegal stuff, although some supplement companies have put cheap dodgy amphetamines in their preworkouts in the past, but that's a side issue.

That's literally what people often claim. It's ridiculous.

For example, back when prohormones were all the rage, MuscleTech (I think) produced a few batches of supplements which were contaminated because they had previously used the same vats to produce prohormones and trace amounts were left on the surface of the vats causing false positives. There wasn't nearly enough of the stuff to actually cause any benefits, but enough to appear in a drug test. The testing agency actually went to the facility to test the vats and discovered this. This was an extremely unlikely occurrence at the time but it has been used as an excuse by cheaters ever since.

Prohormones were legal at the time though right? What companies are producing Turinabol as well as OTC products? How could the above situation happen.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.

Even the dick pill story, although it is plausible that some of these pills are made in underground labs along side steroids, the question is why would he buy dick pills from an underground steroid lab instead of a pharmacy? It's all lies.

He popped for clomid.bHis teammate had an invoice for dickpills and clomid from an underground lab.

marcus001

Woodley KO/TKO

Mellor wrote: »

That's literally what people often claim. It's ridiculous.


Prohormones were legal at the time though right? What companies are producing Turinabol as well as OTC products? How could the above situation happen.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.


He popped for clomid.bHis teammate had an invoice for dickpills and clomid from an underground lab.

I know I'm not defending Jones at all I'm giving the backstory to the whole idea of contaminated supplements and showing how it clearly doesn't apply in this case.

shanec1928

Maia Decision

https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/903677435937300480

Wtf is going on?

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

shanec1928 wrote: »

Wtf is going on?

The substance he allegedly popped for is only detectable in urine. The fight night test was a blood test.

The only 'news' here is that he didn't fail for even more gear and he's still just on the hook for the Turinabol. I'm far from an expert in any of this but from reading bodybuilding forums they're exceptionally dubious he can find a tainted supplement containing Turinabol due to how expensive it is. It's not manufactured in the USA and costs a fortune when illegally imported, so the chances of it "accidentally" getting into regular supplements are slim-to-none.

Shorter answer he's still fcuked unless he can come up with a genius excuse and even then they'll give him the minimum 2 years.

Outlaw Pete

Maia Decision

https://twitter.com/JonnyBones/status/908395977781821440

Zero-Cool

Maia Decision

Ultimate Seduction

What is it about jon Jones that kinda makes me feel sorry for him. I've no doubt he was on it, but I think everyone is, he was just stupid enough about it to get caught, twice. And coke.

Mellor

Maia Decision

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

What is it about jon Jones that kinda makes me feel sorry for him. I've no doubt he was on it, but I think everyone is, he was just stupid enough about it to get caught, twice. And coke.

I've no problem with the coke thing tbh.
What he does in his spare time is his business.

Steroids in a combat sport, drink driving, fleeing the scene, etc. That stuff affects other people and potentially puts lives at risk

mangobob

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

xckjoo

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

I wonder would have have weathered DC's attacks if he had been clean? Guess we'll never know but we can always speculate wildly

dashoonage

If were really going to get technical about this then Shogun is the real champ still. :P

TimRiggins

Woodley Sub

dashoonage wrote: »

If were really going to get technical about this then Shogun is the real champ still. :P

He was probably juicing too tbf.

finglashoop

Maia Decision

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

Maybe but he was the one on the ground after eating a head kick. Same way if they stripped mcgrefor and aldo had beat holloway- the lasting image is the one of mcgregor about to hammer fist a ko'd aldo.

When DC won the vacant title the fact he didnt beat jones for it loomed over him. Same will most likely happen again.

Im.not saying its wrong but that s how it was the first time round and most likely will be this time around

mangobob

finglashoop wrote: »

Maybe but he was the one on the ground after eating a head kick. Same way if they stripped mcgrefor and aldo had beat holloway- the lasting image is the one of mcgregor about to hammer fist a ko'd aldo.

When DC won the vacant title the fact he didnt beat jones for it loomed over him. Same will most likely happen again.

Im.not saying its wrong but that s how it was the first time round and most likely will be this time around

Yep. I can't argue with this. It will always hang over his head, rightly or wrongly. Personally I have to go with the latter. As xckjoo said, it will always be a matter of speculation as to how the lack of PEDS would have affected his potency and DC's ability to weather those shots.

We all have a tendency to say "if that offside goal was disallowed we would have won 2:1" or "we lost by 4 points so if that one try scoring opportunity had been taken we would have won". But you can't just adjust for that one variable and hold every other variable constant. The reality is every moment flows from the last one, so if you changed that one moment in a match, then every moment afterwards would be altered completely so it would be a different game.

Likewise, you cant just subtract the PEDS and then say that DC would have still been crushed by that head kick. Its very possible that without PEDS we would have seen a different fight, one in which the head kick may never have landed or even been thrown. Aside from talent and skill, there are a huge number of variables in how a fight plays out, from the quality of the training camp to the smoothness of the weight cut, to the fighters physical conditioning and their ability to recover from injury etc. These in turn directly affect other factors such as the fighters mental state, confidence and their cardio levels throughout the fight, which in turn directly impacts their ability to execute their strategy over the course of the 5 rounds and so on.

The reality is PEDS may not suddenly make you superman, but they do potentially affect all of the above variables in a very beneficial way for the fighter who is taking them. All of this means we would have seen a somewhat different Jon Jones (perhaps more akin to the one who showed up in the OSP fight) which in turn would most likely result in a different fight. Im not saying DC would not still have lost to Jones, but its highly likely that it would play out differently.

But as you say, that head kick and DC's tears will be the enduring image from that fight and I suspect it will forever tarnish his legacy in the eyes of many.

snotboogie

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

It's not even a question, he was doping. The only question is if everybody else is doing it too. I'd guess they all do it to some extent but Jon was taking a riskier cocktail to get a greater benefit.

darced

Maia Decision

This post has been deleted.

mangobob

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Interesting. I stand corrected. I have zero firsthand knowledge of PEDS nor do I personally know of anyone who has used them. From the sounds of it, they are even more transformative than I thought.

Just to clarify, were the lads you were talking to fighters or athletes from a different sport?

darced

Maia Decision

This post has been deleted.