UFC 214 - DC vs Jones

pastorbarrett

Doesn't seem like Dana can mask his dislike of Woodley too well - the pre-fight presser was testament to this, having quite a brusque retort to Woodley when GSP fight was mentioned. Numbers matter more than ever to Dana, and Woodley doesn't figure in it. Shame really, he's dispatched number one contenders in quick succession. Deserves better.

martyos121

Woodley Sub

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Either do I and like I said last night during the fight, defensive skills are something which are far more appreciated in boxing than they are in MMA. I think Woodley made it look a hell of a lot easier than it actually was for him to repel those TD attempts and I really don't get, nor appreciate, the booing.

Dana should be proclaiming what Woodley did. MMA has a reputation among non-fans as being a bit of a blood sport and if ever there was an opportunity to get away from that stigma then it was this fight and instead celebrate Woodley's talent rather than imply he needs to up his game.

That fight was a chess match and he played it to perfection.

Dana knows well how impressive the performance was, but he's critical of it because he's a fight promoter, not an MMA purist. His job is to sell the product to as wide of an audience as possible and with the way MMA is often represented in pop culture, Woodley is basically the antithesis of what Dana and his bosses are expected to deliver. They seemingly want to embrace the stigma you speak of rather than wash their hands of it.

I've been watching the sport for just over a decade now and love when two specialists compete, but even I just wanted it to end after seeing a couple of rounds of what they served up, there was never any danger of any excitement breaking out and that's as much Maia's fault as it is Woodley's, but you can't blame either of them for it.

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

pastorbarrett wrote: »

Doesn't seem like Dana can mask his dislike of Woodley too well - the pre-fight presser was testament to this, having quite a brusque retort to Woodley when GSP fight was mentioned. Numbers matter more than ever to Dana, and Woodley doesn't figure in it. Shame really, he's dispatched number one contenders in quick succession. Deserves better.

I think they get on well as people, Dana only invited one fighter to his son's 16th birthday party concert with Kendrick Lamar and that was Woodley...

I just think Dana wants him to fight like he used to... go throwing bombs instead of circling around the fence non-stop. Like, being realistic, Maia was never going to double-leg him in open space or knock him out.

Maia's best chance was actually against the fence to get him down and he pretty much had him down once until Woodley cheated.

darced

Maia Decision

This post has been deleted.

Outlaw Pete

Maia Decision

martyos121 wrote: »

Dana knows well how impressive the performance was, but he's critical of it because he's a fight promoter, not an MMA purist. His job is to sell the product to as wide of an audience as possible and with the way MMA is often represented in pop culture, Woodley is basically the antithesis of what Dana and his bosses are expected to deliver. They seemingly want to embrace the stigma you speak of rather than wash their hands of it.

Oh I know what his perspective is, but I just don't think it's good for the sport long term is all.

I've been watching the sport for just over a decade now and love when two specialists compete, but even I just wanted it to end after seeing a couple of rounds of what they served up, there was never any danger of any excitement breaking out and that's as much Maia's fault as it is Woodley's, but you can't blame either of them for it.

But Dana is though..... and publicly too... which isn't right.

If fans are booing Woodley, then Dana coming out and saying what he did is just gonna make matters worse and increase the chances it happens again the next time there is a fight of a similar nature.

In case anyone missed the comments, here they are again:

“The guy [Maia] had one eye in the first round and you’re [Woodley] faster, you’re stronger, your hands are better, you’re explosive. I believe that Woodley could’ve finished that in the first round, and if not, he definitely could’ve finished it in the second round. If you had a remote control for that guy, he’s a freak of nature, he’d be an incredible fighter. Listen, it’s easy to say a win is a win but when you get booed out of an arena, that means people don’t want to watch you fight, you know. And that’s how you make a living. It’s not good if people don’t want to watch you fight.”

With that performance against Maia, White believes Woodley will have a hard time selling pay-per-views moving forward, as he doesn’t see fans being interested in watching Woodley fight.

“[If] You ask fans if they want to see Woodley fight again, I think that will be a flat out no,” White said. “Who wants to pay to see Tyron Woodley fight again? He’s an absolute physical specimen, the guy could’ve finished the fight at any time he wanted to but, you know, he didn’t want to take the risks. [If] you take no risks, you get no rewards.”

Dana could have just said he doesn't like that style of a fight but he should contextualize his comment more and also I feel give the other perspective which is that who knows but had Woodley perhaps gone for the finish more he may not have been successful in it and then left the door wide open for Maia to take him down as a result.

To me this is just Dana being a populist. Trying to suck up the booers. Well imo he should be schooling them instead and looking out for his fighters more not sidling up to idiot 'fans' cause they wanna see more excitement and so think it okay to boo fighters who aren't fighting the way Jon Jones fights.

Subcomandante Marcos

Woodley Sub

I watched the fights this evening as I was out gallivanting last night.

Sad to see DC KO'd like that, he's a fantastic fighter and seems like a very nice guy. Was very close until the head kick and even though Jones was had a higher output I felt DC's striking was far more effective and he was causing far more damage and almost bullying Jones at times.

The Maia Woodley fight played out exactly as I thought it would, sadly. It was a pretty boring fight but tbh I believe Woodley when he said he threw his shoulder out in the first round, hopefully it's not a bad injury.

The Cyborg fight went a lot longer than I thought it would but when she finished it she did it emphatically.

Thought the result in the Lawlor fight was right, had it 29-28 myself and thought Robbie looked pretty good, think he's a few fights away from another title shot but going the right direction, the year off was needed for him.

Volkan's hands are scary. I want to see him fight Jones, I think if he can get inside he could hurt Jones, scary power there.

As for the rest, T-City's finish was fantastic and his striking looked really crisp, could be ranked in the top 5 soon, need a test against a real top 10 fighter soon to see where he really is but one it hits the matt he's scary good.

Really good card and some very enjoyable fights.

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

There's a first for everything but I literally agree with every single word you just said Marcos, good analysis.

marcus001

Woodley KO/TKO

I couldn't really remember how bad the Woodley fight was so at first I thought Dana's comments were a bit over the top, then I remembered it was because I fell asleep halfway through it and now I think it was probably justified.

jigglypuffstuff

Jones = Goat
Woodley = unnecessarily hated, absolute specimen
Lawler & Cerrone = Fun to watch
Cyborg = half woman half dragon

marcus001

Woodley KO/TKO

pone2012 wrote: »

Woodley = unnecessarily hated, absolute specimen

Woodley needs to recognise this and just become a heel. People won't pay to see him fight but they might pay to see him get knocked out.

Django99

Just finished watching the main card.

I don't really see how there's any controversy for the Lawler fight, close rounds and I thought he won two but either way there was no robbery. Not sure Lawler will ever be as good as he was v Hendricks, McDonald and Condit again, those wars have to be taking their toll on him. Cerrone is in a strange position now, nobody ahead of him would make sense so he'll be fighting someone lower ranked next, hard to think who they'll give him.

Woodley fight was awful boring, I see both sides of the argument seeing as he is fighting number one contenders, but the last two fights were awful to watch. But let's be real, this is sports entertainment and the last few months have shown that sporting merit doesn't really exist, so I see Danas point too. The fans want exactly what Woodley said they want, so no confusion on his part as to why he was being booed. Maia has always been a fan favourite for anyone who likes BJJ but has never been an exciting stand up fighter, so it was to be expected I suppose.

Not sure who should fight Woodley next, I'd say he'll take off a few months and let some contenders sort out a number one. Lawler, Masvidal, Gastelum if he can make the weight all potential ideas if they can get a win soon, but definitely no clear number one like Thompson and Maia were.

Main event was heartbreaking, didn't expect DC to win but thought it would go the distance, it was hard to watch particularly the aftermath. I'd still consider him as one of the best of all time. Perhaps he'll retire now but if not I hope he goes to HW. The weight cuts have to be taking their toll on him at this stage.

I hope they do Gus v Jones next, Gus is one of my favourite fighters he's so raw but yet so dangerous. I think he'll always be a tough fight for Jones.

Interesting that Jones admitted steroid use after the fight too, and I'm surprised it's not being talked about more.

Oezemir is a beast too, and probably not far off a title shot either, very surprised with how comfortable he looked in only his third UFC fight but I suppose you either have it or you don't and he definitely has it.

Subcomandante Marcos

Woodley Sub

Jones admitted to steroid use?

Outlaw Pete

Maia Decision

Ouch

https://twitter.com/tonyaevinger/status/891743933872590848

Axwell

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Jones admitted to steroid use?

He said in an interview that he beat DC off the steroids the first time, and off them the second time..which suggests he was on them to begin with and then off them for the fights.

5m20s in on the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg5r4jZyfdg

Django99

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Jones admitted to steroid use?

There's a video a couple of pages back where he says "I beat DC off steroids the first time and I beat him off steroids the second time" To be off something you have to have been on it to begin with!

Kirby

pone2012 wrote: »

Jones = Goat
Woodley = unnecessarily hated, absolute specimen
Lawler & Cerrone = Fun to watch
Cyborg = half woman half dragon

Nobody hates Woodley. Most of us just don't want to watch him fight. He's boring. He backs up against the cage and throws 4 punches a round.

Is it effective? Yes.
Is he good enough to be the champion for years? Yes.
Is he within his rights to fight however he wants? Yes.

Is he one of the most boring guys to watch right now? Also Yes.

And thats just something he has to deal with. He can remain champion and collect his 500k every title defence cheque every time and go on his merry way. If I was him, I'd probably do the same thing.

But then he can't whine about the UFC not promoting him or the fans booing him. And he can't whine when he doesn't get the money fight. In the space of 24 hours he lost himself the GSP fight because he fought scared. Had he knocked Maia out, he would still have it.

The bottom line is, the UFC now has a WW champion that nobody wants to pay to see fight. Thats a problem for Dana and he isn't going to reward Woodley for fighting safe.

Regarding the idea that people would tune in to see him lose? That isn't happening. He isn't as well known as floyd and hasn't been champion long enough for that sort of thing to happen. Casuals tune in to see floyd get knocked out because he's been around for 20 years. Casuals don't know who Woodley is. The casuals don't buy these type of MMA cards.

Woodley has to decide if he wants to win at any cost, or if he wants the mega bucks fights/to be loved by fans. Because fighting like that wont get him GSP or Conor and it won't stop the stadium booing him.

As an aside, Eddie Alvarez came to the same conclusion. He was grinding out wins but recognised he wasn't making any waves or gaining any fans with it. He talks about it in his interview with Ariel. Woodley is going to have to make the same decision. Two terrified bouts with wonderboy and an equally terrified bout with Maia has seen his stock fall, not rise. After his impressive knockout of Lawler, he has just hurt his own brand.

Outlaw Pete

Maia Decision

https://twitter.com/dc_mma/status/891849988556201984

First off, thank you all for the kind words. I have felt the support. Congratulations to Jon Jones and his team. They did a phenomenal job and got the victory. Also, to Big John McCarthy, I would like to apologize for acting up with you. I am thankful for the time you gave me to try and defend myself and stay in the fight. You are the best in the business for a reason. I also wanna thank my team and my coaches. I love you all from the bottom of my heart. Your time and energy is greatly appreciated. You guys did a wonderful job, I was ready. It's a fist fight and things happen. Dana White and the @ufc, thank you for being the premiere organization in all of MMA. Again, congrats to Team Jones and JacksonWink. Love you all. I'll see you soon. DC

Easy Rod

Jon Jones Sub

wonderfullife wrote: »

As I said, there's no "to be fair" here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNOKPMVXU4

I was talking about the 'johnny on his head' comment in the video you posted, nothing else. They're clearly arseholes and made disgusting comments but "to be fair" they didn't in that incidence.

wonderfullife

Maia Decision

Kirby wrote: »

As an aside, Eddie Alvarez came to the same conclusion. He was grinding out wins but recognised he wasn't making any waves or gaining any fans with it. He talks about it in his interview with Ariel. Woodley is going to have to make the same decision. Two terrified bouts with wonderboy and an equally terrified bout with Maia has seen his stock fall, not rise. After his impressive knockout of Lawler, he has just hurt his own brand.

I don't think Eddie was ever as bad but yeah something similar needs to happen.

The thing about the Lawler fight is you can 100% tell from the first 2 minutes of that fight that it was shaping up a similar way with Woodley circling and doing nothing but fainting. Woodley threw one right hook after 40 seconds and his next punch was a left jab a minute later. It's not like he was throwing kicks to compensate either.

The problem isn't "specialists", the problem is Woodley.

From his perspective, he's champion and gets PPV points but he has been extremely lucky to have gotten the co-main event slot in 2 of the UFC's biggest recent cards (205 and 214)... that gravy train is going to end soon, not a hope Dana puts him on a big card again to stink the place out.

Inviere

wonderfullife wrote: »

The problem isn't "specialists", the problem is Woodley.

Perhaps, but is that just how he fights though? (ie, smart). It's not exciting to watch, but he's there to win...& asking him to change his style, dramatically increase his risk, all for the entertainment of others....it's not that fair really. I get it in that it's an entertainment business, but it's also the sport of MMA...I feel Dana should have acknowledged the stylistic difficulties Tyron has faced recently, & perhaps leaned more with the technical nature of his fighting, as opposed to siding with the bloodlust brigade.

MMayweather

Woodley is the only black champion in the ufc and is constantly derided by his white boss.

It's obviously racism and harks back to our times of slavery

Inviere

MMayweather wrote: »

It's obviously racism

Is it? I thought it was the boo'ing....

Easy Rod

Jon Jones Sub

MMayweather wrote: »

Woodley is the only black champion in the ufc and is constantly derided by his white boss.

It's obviously racism and harks back to our times of slavery

DC, Jon Jones and DJ would tend to disagree with your nonsense spouting.

MMayweather

Easy Rod wrote: »

DC, Jon Jones and DJ would tend to disagree with your nonsense spouting.

Dj is maligned by the fans as much as Woodley. DC was constantly booed by fans too.

That's 3 black people booed for being the very best and is indicative of the transparent racism that exists in America and is seeping into Ireland

Inviere

MMayweather wrote: »

That's 3 black people booed for being the very best and is indicative of the transparent racism that exists in America and is seeping into Ireland

Was Tyron not booed because he broke a record for least amount of punches thrown?

Easy Rod

Jon Jones Sub

MMayweather wrote: »

Dj is maligned by the fans as much as Woodley. DC was constantly booed by fans too.

That's 3 black people booed for being the very best and is indicative of the transparent racism that exists in America and is seeping into Ireland

So you've gone from Dana is a racist to all of America is to Ireland is becoming one. They are some mighty large leaps you're making.

Listen, I think the US has MASSIVE issues with race and it's quite a scary place for a black person to be right now. However you are spouting nonsense.

Inviere

Easy Rod wrote: »

Listen, I think the US has MASSIVE issues with race and it's quite a scary place for a black person to be right now. However you are spouting nonsense.

Agreed, racism is rife in the US (from all corners)...but that's not at all what we seen last night.

pastorbarrett

Axwell wrote: »

He said in an interview that he beat DC off the steroids the first time, and off them the second time..which suggests he was on them to begin with and then off them for the fights.

5m20s in on the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg5r4jZyfdg

Sure many will call him the GOAT and opine he was of an era where steroid use was pervasive and somewhat unchecked, but the fact remains he was caught. I'm not suggesting his missteps are of the magnitude to render his achievements and run invalid, but the questions will always follow him...For shame too - given his calibre you can legitimately wonder if he could have just as easily have done without.

Sweet Science

Anyone else think JJ looked poor enough up to the stoppage ? He seemed laboured and mechanical . Obviously doesnt matter now after such a devastating finish

Tigger

Woodley Sub

Sweet Science wrote: »

Anyone else think JJ looked poor enough up to the stoppage ? He seems laboured and mechanical . Obviously doesnt matter now after such a devastating finish

Yeah he's a machine alright