Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

Fr Tod Umptious

jr86 wrote: »

To be honest I'm not getting this Kerry overhyped stuff

I think it's a bit of wishful thinking to be honest. They're rated about right overall I feel, the second best side in Ireland at the minute all things said

It's not that Kerry are "overhyped" as such it's just that in my opinion the narrative about them has changed dramatically since the league.

With the retirements in the winter we were told that Kerry were in transition.

That continued through out the league when they lost at home to the likes of Mayo and Monaghan, drew away to Cavan and were somewhat lethargic v Roscommon

They finished on the same points as Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal.

But then they win the league final by a point and the width of a post, against a Dublin team who had an untypical league, and they are suddenly no longer in transition, they have now arrived

And that has continued through a pretty uneventful championship.

Mayo had a pretty much similar experience to them in Ennis, and with the obvious exception of the two goal concessions the Mayo v Cork game was going the same way as the Munster final mid way through the second half.

They hardly set the world on fire v Galway and James O' Donoughe, who everyone assumed was back to his best was withdrawn with one a single point to his name.

We really have yet to see how much they have arrived. And to be fair to the likes of Pat Spillane he has stated that there are more questions to be answered by this Kerry team, and that the league final success should not be seen as the definition of where this team are at.

Obviously they are still a good team but the SF whichever way it goes will give us a better idea of their quality.

MaroonAndGreen

Guys please don't kill the vibes in this thread with in fighting and sh*ite. It's literally the best thread on boards. I've not enjoyed reading the bickering to be honest and I'd say I'm not the only one. You can tell someone they are wrong without calling them "useless". We all have our opinions and are entitled to them and this is a very good thread for it usually. Let's keep it that way lads.

jr86

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's not that Kerry are "overhyped" as such it's just that in my opinion the narrative about them has changed dramatically since the league.

With the retirements in the winter we were told that Kerry were in transition.

That continued through out the league when they lost at home to the likes of Mayo and Monaghan, drew away to Cavan and were somewhat lethargic v Roscommon

They finished on the same points as Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal.

But then they win the league final by a point and the width of a post, against a Dublin team who had an untypical league, and they are suddenly no longer in transition, they have now arrived

And that has continued through a pretty uneventful championship.

Mayo had a pretty much similar experience to them in Ennis, and with the obvious exception of the two goal concessions the Mayo v Cork game was going the same way as the Munster final mid way through the second half.

They hardly set the world on fire v Galway and James O' Donoughe, who everyone assumed was back to his best was withdrawn with one a single point to his name.

We really have yet to see how much they have arrived. And to be fair to the likes of Pat Spillane he has stated that there are more questions to be answered by this Kerry team, and that the league final success should not be seen as the definition of where this team are at.

Obviously they are still a good team but the SF whichever way it goes will give us a better idea of their quality.

But the only team to beat Kerry since 2012 is dublin. Who each time went on to win an AI. And bar 2015 they were damn close.

So to be fair it was significant for Kerry to beat them in the league final this year in croke park.

It's only right it changes the narrative somewhat

Blackjack

jr86 wrote: »

But the only team to beat Kerry since 2012 is dublin. Who each time went on to win an AI. And bar 2015 they were damn close.

So to be fair it was significant for Kerry to beat them in the league final this year in croke park.

It's only right it changes the narrative somewhat

Donegal beat them in 2014.

corny

jr86 wrote: »

But the only team to beat Kerry since 2012 is dublin. Who each time went on to win an AI. And bar 2015 they were damn close.

So to be fair it was significant for Kerry to beat them in the league final this year in croke park.

It's only right it changes the narrative somewhat

Thats true but they've only crossed Mayo once in that period. They won in the end but its arguable that was Kerrys best year, performance wise under Fitzmaurice. Despite the result they didn't establish great superiority in either game.

Also, important psychologically for Kerry getting over the line against Dublin yes but i wouldn't read much into it form wise. Dublin had their holiday late last year (January), had a third team out for the O'Byrne Cup and showed vulnerability to other teams beside Kerry in the league.

jr86

Blackjack wrote: »

Donegal beat them in 2014.

I said each time dublin beat Kerry they won the AI

The year Kerry didn't face them - Kerry won the AI

Blackjack

jr86 wrote: »

I said each time dublin beat Kerry they won the AI

The year Kerry didn't face them - Kerry won the AI

Sorry, misread the post

PARlance

So, who makes way for Lee if its the case?

It was discussed a bit on the Kerry thread a few days ago. It's hard to drop anyone on the basis of the last day. I think it'll be at the expenses of Seamie which isn't the worst of moves as Kerry will probably be bringing on Barry for Maher at some stage and he can counter that.

TCDStudent1

PARlance wrote: »

So, who makes way for Lee if its the case?

It was discussed a bit on the Kerry thread a few days ago. It's hard to drop anyone on the basis of the last day. I think it'll be at the expenses of Seamie which isn't the worst of moves as Kerry will probably be bringing on Barry for Maher at some stage and he can counter that.

I'd be shocked if maher starts above Barry.

SomethingElse

Are the Bring A Friend tickets all sold out on the season ticket? It's saying no tickets available for me

PARlance

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I'd be shocked if maher starts above Barry.

Thought so myself but they (a suggested team on the Kerry thread) have him starting. It was Maher Moran vs Cork and Moran Barry against yourselves?

Either way, I think Seamie would have to be my pick to drop out and it would suit to bring him on alongside whoever it is.

Oldtree

SomethingElse wrote: »

Are the Bring A Friend tickets all sold out on the season ticket? It's saying no tickets available for me

Just checked my account and the "purchase" bring a friend button is there but I daren't press it

Kerry_2008

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You had me until the last line. Its a pure contradiction. You want him to run out the field to challenge their kickouts? And what if he misses one? Who is left marking Donaghy? You can't just leave him to his own devices, there has to be a big player near him all the time. It only takes a few seconds for him to do damage as we well know. I'd favour Vaughan to mark Donaghy or else SOS full time marking him. I suggested SOS as a makeshift Full Back in an earlier post but no-one was buying it. That said we need a big strong guy in there who won't be shoved out of the way easily and will at least compete and make it awkward on Donaghy.

It would be madness to have Seamus O'Shea marking Donaghy. It doesnt work and its a waste of a player. Its not just jumping with Donaghy you have to contend with its the way backs into you with his ar*e, and moves you out of the way to get the space he needs. All perfected on a basketball court. Its a proper 'back' that needs to mark him that has some awareness of danger and space around him.

Also you need someone without an ego that doesn't think he's going to out field Donaghy. You have to break everything. Nine times out of ten he will get the ball, you are better off to be ready to come down with him and try to swallow him up and stop him getting the pass away. That's where the sweeper comes in. There will have to be someone on the ground waiting the minute the Donaghy comes down to block the pass / movement. Because if Donaghy hits the ground on the inside of his man (that jumped with him) on a one on one its all over.

But, you cant not jump with him either as his hand are so quick he can palm the ball off in the air.

keane2097

PARlance wrote: »

Thought so myself but they (a suggested team on the Kerry thread) have him starting. It was Maher Moran vs Cork and Moran Barry against yourselves?

Either way, I think Seamie would have to be my pick to drop out and it would suit to bring him on alongside whoever it is.

I'd say if they thought Parsons and O'Shea were going to be midfield Maher would play.

Maher is class tbf, Jack Barry has shown great potential but has a long way to go to be considered a shoo-in for the team.

PARlance

Kerry_2008 wrote: »

It would be madness to have Seamus O'Shea marking Donaghy. It doesnt work and its a waste of a player. Its not just jumping with Donaghy you have to contend with its the way backs into you with his ar*e, and moves you out of the way to get the space he needs. All perfected on a basketball court. Its a proper 'back' that needs to mark him that has some awareness of danger and space around him.

Also you need someone without an ego that doesn't think he's going to out field Donaghy. You have to break everything. Nine times out of ten he will get the ball, you are better off to be ready to come down with him and try to swallow him up and stop him getting the pass away. That's where the sweeper comes in. There will have to be someone on the ground waiting the minute the Donaghy comes down to block the pass / movement. Because if Donaghy hits the ground on the inside of his man (that jumped with him) on a one on one its all over.

But, you cant not jump with him either as his hand are so quick he can palm the ball off in the air.

It's rare enough that he will actually fetch the ball out of the sky. It's all arms and arse as you say. Two backs making a nuisance of themselves is about the best bet, one standing on his toes preferably.

km79

Maurice Deegan is the ref
Cries

SecretsOfEarth

km79 wrote: »

Maurice Deegan is the ref
Cries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Deegan
"Also known as An tAsal i ngra le Baile Atha Cliath."
:pac:

Needles73

Well that's a pretty brutal appointment.

irishgeo

He might be up for us. Dublin have a better chance of beating us than kerry in a final.

seligehgit

What's the issue with Maurice Deegan's appointment?

Fr Tod Umptious

seligehgit wrote: »

What's the issue with Maurice Deegan's appointment?

I don't know either.

He missed a black card offence in the opening few minutes of the final replay and subsequently admitted that he did but I can't think of anything else remotely controversial about him.

The problem is there are too few really top notch refs to go around, so every appointment will have something that fans will a gripe about.

Take Gough for example, Kerry fans have a real gripe about him since 2015, but to the rest of us he is a good ref.

Now if it was Cormac Reilly now that would be something to argue about.

km79

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't know either.

He missed a black card offence in the opening few minutes of the final replay and subsequently admitted that he did but I can't think of anything else remotely controversial about him.

The problem is there are too few really top notch refs to go around, so every appointment will have something that fans will a gripe about.

Take Gough for example, Kerry fans have a real gripe about him since 2015, but to the rest of us he is a good ref.

Now if it was Cormac Reilly now that would be something to argue about.

He also missed donie been absolutely taken out of the game moments after he seen a black card offence for Keegan that wasn't there

He was absolutely 100% going to black card Keegan that game . He is influenced by the media . He bends to the will of the "bigger " team consistently .

How he keeps getting these big games is beyond me. He is the worst kind of ref . The best arethsoe you don't notice and we sure as ****e can't say that about him !

km79

What a way to end our GAA Panel discussion tour in @JoeMallonMotors. Plenty of laughs and a great turnout. Thanks to all involved! ðŸ https://t.co/dtuZ77iHVj

There he is doing a media junket with a few auld media friends .....is that one of the O Ses...............

seligehgit

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't know either.

He missed a black card offence in the opening few minutes of the final replay and subsequently admitted that he did but I can't think of anything else remotely controversial about him.

The problem is there are too few really top notch refs to go around, so every appointment will have something that fans will a gripe about.

Take Gough for example, Kerry fans have a real gripe about him since 2015, but to the rest of us he is a good ref.

Now if it was Cormac Reilly now that would be something to argue about.

Totally agree Tod,like most referees all teams can have gripes with decisions he and other officials make.He missed a foul on Cillian in the 2012 final down at the Davin end,Small's black card offence and Lee Keegan's erroneous black card but I disagree that he was always going to give the black card.He thought in real time it was a black card.He subsequently admitted he missed Small's offence.I am sure the Dubs could pick a few decisions out.In general these things even themselves out.

The standard of referees is not great anyway.I rate David Gough,Joe McQuillan and David Coldrick quite highly,who would be a referee anyway?A virtually impossible job.

IMO we need to focus less on the failings or otherwise of referees and such other outside factors for the blame game.It never will change the result,if we're good enough these issues should not come into consideration.

yop

seligehgit wrote: »

Totally agree Tod,like most referees all teams can have gripes with decisions he and other officials make.He missed a foul on Cillian in the 2012 final down at the Davin end,Small's black card offence and Lee Keegan's erroneous black card but I disagree that he was always going to give the black card.He thought in real time it was a black card.He subsequently admitted he missed Small's offence.I am sure the Dubs could pick a few decisions out.In general these things even themselves out.

The standard of referees is not great anyway.I rate David Gough,Joe McQuillan and David Coldrick quite highly,who would be a referee anyway?A virtually impossible job.

IMO we need to focus less on the failings or otherwise of referees and such other outside factors for the blame game.It never will change the result,if we're good enough these issues should not come into consideration.

We've Dublin Joe and now Dublin Gough!

The 3 decisions you called out which he missed were game changers though.

jr86

yop wrote: »

We've Dublin Joe and now Dublin Gough!

The 3 decisions you called out which he missed were game changers though.

The "game changers" were dublin's kick outs vs mayo's kick outs, dublin's superior bench and mayo's cluelessness and lack of movement and intricacy up front as the game entered the melting pot

The only time mayo can honestly feel aggrieved by a ref is 2014 b Kerry but even then there was no plan for donaghy and mayo were wiped out in midfield

jr86

seligehgit wrote: »

Totally agree Tod,like most referees all teams can have gripes with decisions he and other officials make.He missed a foul on Cillian in the 2012 final down at the Davin end,Small's black card offence and Lee Keegan's erroneous black card but I disagree that he was always going to give the black card.He thought in real time it was a black card.He subsequently admitted he missed Small's offence.I am sure the Dubs could pick a few decisions out.In general these things even themselves out.

The standard of referees is not great anyway.I rate David Gough,Joe McQuillan and David Coldrick quite highly,who would be a referee anyway?A virtually impossible job.

IMO we need to focus less on the failings or otherwise of referees and such other outside factors for the blame game.It never will change the result,if we're good enough these issues should not come into consideration.

Well said seligehgit

Refs have a tough job as it is.

yop

jr86 wrote: »

The "game changers" were dublin's kick outs vs mayo's kick outs, dublin's superior bench and mayo's cluelessness and lack of movement and intricacy up front as the game entered the melting pot

The only time mayo can honestly feel aggrieved by a ref is 2014 b Kerry but even then there was no plan for donaghy and mayo were wiped out in midfield

So losing Keegan wasn't a game changer? The player who has outscored Connolly in many games, Connolly got a free role after that.
Cillian was fouled, Donegal went down the pitch and scored a goal, ya thats a game changer.

Fr Tod Umptious

yop wrote: »

So losing Keegan wasn't a game changer? The player who has outscored Connolly in many games, Connolly got a free role after that.
Cillian was fouled, Donegal went down the pitch and scored a goal, ya thats a game changer.

Keane mishandling the ball off the post for the second Donegal goal was a game changer.

Rob Hennelly's failure to convert a long free in Limerick was a game changer.

Even though refs have a huge influence on the game their actions alone are rarely the winning and losing of the game.

MayoAreMagic

Im not one for picking at refs, but after Reilly, I'd have genuinely taken anyone before Deegan. With my first preference being Gough.

He is forever giving harsh frees\cards against keegan, he is slow to give us fouls - with O'Connor and O'Shea in particular, seemingly needing to be fouled twice to get a free - while opponents tend to get the benefit of the doubt a bit quicker. I get the impression he doesn't seem to buy what mayo are selling in general, and tends to ref our games against top teams with that in the back of his head.

I'll predict that we will get nothing off him, particularly any big call, and Kerry will get a couple of soft ones at important times.