BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

StreetLight

Stephen15 wrote: »

Would it be safe for city bus without seatbelts to travel on the M50.

They already do on the 33X, 41X, 76A, 142....

punisher5112

Db limited at 65km/h due to standing passengers.

Any time there is a crash its such a large vehicle most wouldn't even know.

AlekSmart

tabbey wrote: »

This is why the 75 route is unfit for purpose.

It needs to be split into two routes;

1. an express route from Dun Laoghaire to Sandyford then via M50 to N81 and direct along the bypass to the Square.

2. a revised version of the present route, skipping the village area in Tallaght.

The present setup is so unreliable that the potential market has long abandoned the bus.
If a reasonable service was provided, it would be used.

It looks like the 75 may well turn out to be Go Ahead Dublin's flagship route.

It has the potential to be a very strong performer,particularly as GAD may be somewhat more adroit at responding to market demands than BAC.

Added to this is the presence of new route 175 (City West -UCD Belfield),which may well address point 2 in the above post.

There are also rumours of GAD having approached the NTA,to request an extension of the 175 route to Dun Laoire,which given the 175's status as a totally new route,could well be true.

Either way,the 75/175 finally does look as if it's going to get a shot-in-the-arm ?

Stephen15

AlekSmart wrote: »

It looks like the 75 may well turn out to be Go Ahead Dublin's flagship route.

It has the potential to be a very strong performer,particularly as GAD may be somewhat more adroit at responding to market demands than BAC.

Added to this is the presence of new route 175 (City West -UCD Belfield),which may well address point 2 in the above post.

There are also rumours of GAD having approached the NTA,to request an extension of the 175 route to Dun Laoire,which given the 175's status as a totally new route,could well be true.

Either way,the 75/175 finally does look as if it's going to get a shot-in-the-arm ?

Wasn't the orginal plan for the 175 to run from DL to Tallaght as a version of the 75, I know where the UCD idea came from.

Also GA are just a contractor of the NTA with the NTA keeping the farebox so they don't say on routes they just paid operate them on the NTA's behalf similar to the London model where any the operators don't have a say on anything.

ddx05

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also the potential market has not abandoned the bus. The 75 is ok if travelling shorter distances but not for long distance.

I have used this bus quite a lot to get to/from college and I can tell you that most people that I have got the 75 with, would rather go into town on a 27 and back out home from there. It is a fu**ing terrible service

I can't say the bus is all that bad though, if it wasn't for the 75, I wouldn't have learned how to drive

My point being, a better bus service in this city could entice drivers to go back to using buses

Stephen15

ddx05 wrote: »

I have used this bus quite a lot to get to/from college and I can tell you that most people that I have got the 75 with, would rather go into town on a 27 and back out home from there. It is a fu**ing terrible service

I can't say the bus is all that bad though, if it wasn't for the 75, I wouldn't have learned how to drive

My point being, a better bus service in this city could entice drivers to go back to using buses

It's not that awful route I used it a number of times to go from Deansgrange to Dundrum. It took about 20 mins off peak without too much traffic. It's not an awful route it serves a purpose as a local but not to go end to end. I stupidly made the mistake once of getting it all the way to Tallaght and wouldn't do it again but I would use it for shorter journeys.

dublinman1990

AlekSmart wrote: »

It looks like the 75 may well turn out to be Go Ahead Dublin's flagship route.

It has the potential to be a very strong performer,particularly as GAD may be somewhat more adroit at responding to market demands than BAC.

Added to this is the presence of new route 175 (City West -UCD Belfield),which may well address point 2 in the above post.

There are also rumours of GAD having approached the NTA,to request an extension of the 175 route to Dun Laoire,which given the 175's status as a totally new route,could well be true.

Either way,the 75/175 finally does look as if it's going to get a shot-in-the-arm ?

What was the main reason for this rumour to take place in public. Do you any further sources for it to be true?

If a decision was made from the NTA to renew the extension of the 175 to Dun Laoghaire & also if they keep the 75 at Dun Laoghaire; what would everyone's proposals here would be most likely to be useful for these routes when they are with GAD next year? Would it be like something that is similar to Dublin Bus's original Network Direct proposal made in 2012?

If the other terminus for the 175 was to be kept at Citywest; would the running time of this route be the same if the route went to Tallaght under Dublin Bus's proposal?

Stephen15

One thing I would like to see now with the Luas CC up and running is more integration between the bus and Luas. Rather than competing for space the bus and Luas should be complementing one another. Bus stops in the city centre should have raised platforms, shelters and ticket machines similar to the new stops put on the new Luas CC line.

I personally think that D'Olier Street should be turned into a bus only street. Put in more pedestrian space and split the street in half put in a platform in the middle of the road for bus passsengers in order to board the buses with half the buses serving the stops going to left and the other going to the right with room for buses to overtake. That would mitigate buses competing with each other in order to get at the stop(s), reducing dwell times and making the general passenger experience more pleasant. It would also work for people who may change buses as this is a key point where buses coming westbound from the quays meet buses coming Southbound from O'Connell Street.

Also when I say bus only I mean Dublin PSO services only no taxis, no private coaches and no BE. I often a range of private coaches from various companies blocking DB stops in the CC.

xper

Stephen15 wrote: »

One thing I would like to see now with the Luas CC up and running is more integration between the bus and Luas. Rather than competing for space the bus and Luas should be complementing one another. Bus stops in the city centre should have raised platforms, shelters and ticket machines similar to the new stops put on the new Luas CC line.

I personally think that D'Olier Street should be turned into a bus only street. Put in more pedestrian space and split the street in half put in a platform in the middle of the road for bus passsengers in order to board the buses with half the buses serving the stops going to left and the other going to the right with room for buses to overtake. That would mitigate buses competing with each other in order to get at the stop(s), reducing dwell times and making the general passenger experience more pleasant. It would also work for people who may change buses as this is a key point where buses coming westbound from the quays meet buses coming Southbound from O'Connell Street.

Also when I say bus only I mean Dublin PSO services only no taxis, no private coaches and no BE. I often a range of private coaches from various companies blocking DB stops in the CC.

Most of what you are suggesting has been put forward as part of the piecemeal BRT planning at one stage or another over the last decade. One would hope that the BusConnects plan, being the mother of all overhauls, or so we are lead to believe, will have taken all that on board. One or two central interchanges would seem to be rational but, while the previously suggested split D’Olier St is an option, I wouldn’t be committing to their location until I knew where the New Metro North stations are going to be (presumably the BusConnects consultants have been given the heads up on that).

dublinman1990

The photos of the NTA's blue livery painted on SG 333 & on the Streetlite Max is only a temporary one that is up for evaluation purposes only. SG 333 is part of the new SG order for Dublin Bus. This bus up in Wrights will be repainted back into the FS Dublin Bus livery very soon. I wonder what other designs that the NTA are going to give us in the early part of the new year. I hope these other proposed designs will not be as bad as the first paint-shopped design.

Although I am not going to look at this process with too much confidence so far as it has been disappointing.

Who is in charge of designing the new NTA livery? I assume that it was awarded out to Freeneys in Tallaght.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

If thats the case there needs to be extra capacity. An extra bus could have been sent from Donnybrook.

It is not like before the NTA days, DB could and did send extra buses where they where needed, now they can no longer do so, it must be pre approved by the NTA.

bebeman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Hopefully the NTA stand up and tell them to go **** off and do what they're told

Funny you should say this.
The word is the NTA now know LUAS CC is a almighty mess when it comes to DB trying to run a service, they are asking DB what to do , and DB have stepped back, " Its your problem, we made you aware months ago it would be a problem, you did not care, now you find a solution and you tell us what to do".
The NTA quick to take credit for any good news, well they can take the credit for the LUAS CC mess.

bebeman

goingnowhere wrote: »

Dublin Bus will do what it is told by the NTA.

Hence the LUAS CC mess with DB buses.
A mess of The NTA's making, they where told time and time again by DB it will cause problems with DB operating a service, the NTA ignored this warning, the NTA now completely own the mess that it has caused.

Myself and many other drivers have talked about the traffic mess it is causing, each of us has agreed we are arriving late at different terminus on duties that never before have been late, not just a few minutes late but tens of minutes late.
We are being sent out of service frequently to try get us back on time, this did not happen pre LUAS CC.
Just wait till january and everyone is back to work/school, if we get heavy rain in the morning/evening rush hour the entire city will grind to a halt.

Stephen15

bebeman wrote: »

It is not like before the NTA days, DB could and did send extra buses where they where needed, now they can no longer do so, it must be pre approved by the NTA.

Does that rule apply to both DB and NTA owned buses, the reason I ask is because the 75 is predominantly AV/AX operated route both of which are DB owned and not NTA owned. Also if a bus was to brake down or have to be taken out of service while in service for whatever reason would a DB controller have to seek permission from the NTA. What about Euro duties and my last question would what would be the possible repercussions for DB if they were to operate a non NTA approved service.

I thought this rule only applied to DB services being operated outside their regular timetable to prevent un-timtabled departures or does it apply to every single bus that leaves a depot even if it is to operate a timetabled departure.

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

It is not like before the NTA days, DB could and did send extra buses where they where needed, now they can no longer do so, it must be pre approved by the NTA.

And they sent basically everything available on the 67 due to competition rather than demand.

They didn't use the ability wisely and they lost it as a result of abuse.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

Does that rule apply to both DB and NTA owned buses, the reason I ask is because the 75 is predominantly AV/AX operated route both of which are DB owned and not NTA owned. Also if a bus was to brake down or have to be taken out of service while in service for whatever reason would a DB controller have to seek permission from the NTA. What about Euro duties and my last question would what would be the possible repercussions for DB if they were to operate a non NTA approved service.

I thought this rule only applied to DB services being operated outside their regular timetable to prevent un-timtabled departures or does it apply to every single bus that leaves a depot even if it is to operate a timetabled departure.

The NTA must give permission for a "extra bus" to operate.
Years ago DB would know due to a game at landsdown road , it would be mad busy and put on extra buses. DB had the power to do so, extra buses would be rostered and inspectors would call out on the radio " drivers needed to do extra work for concert/match" if more were required.
Today i see here and bus users complain about buses being packed due to concerts/matches, the regular service cant cope with the extra passengers.
Every extra bus must be pre approved by the NTA, and YES DB do apply to run extra buses for concerts/matches and not all of them get approved, also inspectors are no longer allowed to call out on radio to get drivers for extra work.

Bus breaks down in service, passengers are transferred to next bus. Driver waits with bus until replacement arrives and then calls control to get orders. No permission required.

EURO duties are a strange one, the NTA turn a blind eye to their operation, they clearly break the rules but are allowed to operate.
Sticklers for the rules until it suits them not to be.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

And they sent basically everything available on the 67 due to competition rather than demand.

They didn't use the ability wisely and they lost it as a result of abuse.

DB won the 67 battle.
The only looser now are the people waiting in the rain as packed bus after packed bus passes them by.

Stephen15

bebeman wrote: »

The NTA must give permission for a "extra bus" to operate.
Years ago DB would know due to a game at landsdown road , it would be mad busy and put on extra buses. DB had the power to do so, extra buses would be rostered and inspectors would call out on the radio " drivers needed to do extra work for concert/match" if more were required.
Today i see here and bus users complain about buses being packed due to concerts/matches, the regular service cant cope with the extra passengers.
Every extra bus must be pre approved by the NTA, and YES DB do apply to run extra buses for concerts/matches and not all of them get approved, also inspectors are no longer allowed to call out on radio to get drivers for extra work.

Bus breaks down in service, passengers are transferred to next bus. Driver waits with bus until replacement arrives and then calls control to get orders. No permission required.

EURO duties are a strange one, the NTA turn a blind eye to their operation, they clearly break the rules but are allowed to operate.
Sticklers for the rules until it suits them not to be.

But surely it suits the NTA for every bus to run to the timetable which the NTA set. Especially a route like the 75 a route in which The NTA recently changed the timetable of. So your telling the the NTA would rather a bus was late or worse still doesn't operate at all over letting DB take an extra out of the depot.

If DB decided to put on special buses like the ones for they do for The Slane Castle concerts they could run a special bus to say Marley Park and charge more for it taking buses off the regular service and putting them on a route which is more profitable as they can charge more for it. Which would probably annoy passengers even more.

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

DB won the 67 battle.
The only looser now are the people waiting in the rain as packed bus after packed bus passes them by.

They won with dodgy tactics and the result screwed the customer. Delightful attitude.

No customers = no DB. The company, management and staff alike need to realise that nothing else matters more than them - yet they're treated as an inconvenience

thomasj

Recent example I can give of dbs commercial operation, the nitelink.

3 Fridays ago, despite the fact that 39n , 70n and 66n we're running as full to the brim VTs., There were no additional buses put on.

There were at least 40 people waiting on the 39n at 00.20 in the cold, the bus was parked there at that time but they couldn't get on until 1am. The 1am 39n I was on left with over 100 passengers on board, standing right up to the door.

The midnight 39n I was trying to catch, pulled out at 23.59 , the inspector told me there was 106 passengers on board.

Cookie_Monster

bebeman wrote: »

Funny you should say this.
The word is the NTA now know LUAS CC is a almighty mess when it comes to DB trying to run a service, they are asking DB what to do , and DB have stepped back, " Its your problem, we made you aware months ago it would be a problem, you did not care, now you find a solution and you tell us what to do".
The NTA quick to take credit for any good news, well they can take the credit for the LUAS CC mess.

DCC have just as much blame to be apportioned to them. Should have closed much of the area to private vehicle but they let various interests dictate their policy for them and private vehicle remain, clogging up the entire city centre.

Hugh Jampton

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The photos of the NTA's blue livery painted on SG 333 & on the Streetlite Max is only a temporary one that is up for evaluation purposes only. SG 333 is part of the new SG order for Dublin Bus. This bus up in Wrights will be repainted back into the FS Dublin Bus livery very soon. I wonder what other designs that the NTA are going to give us in the early part of the new year. I hope these other proposed designs will not be as bad as the first paint-shopped design.

Although I am not going to look at this process with too much confidence so far as it has been disappointing.

Who is in charge of designing the new NTA livery? I assume that it was awarded out to Freeneys in Tallaght.

Over elaborate branding that gets changed considerably every few years is part of the problem in Dublin. It's a cosmetic and gimmicky change that appeals to the mentality that likes to see 'something' done, but nothing really radical that might tread on toes like LCC has.

Simple, high quality and consistent branding that does not get chopped and changed must be one of them continental, or God save us, Brit things, that makes Official Ireland come out in hives.

Hugh Jampton

bebeman wrote: »

Funny you should say this.
The word is the NTA now know LUAS CC is a almighty mess when it comes to DB trying to run a service, they are asking DB what to do , and DB have stepped back, " Its your problem, we made you aware months ago it would be a problem, you did not care, now you find a solution and you tell us what to do".
The NTA quick to take credit for any good news, well they can take the credit for the LUAS CC mess.

Well then Congestion Charge the bejaysus out of the central area. Problem solved but it won't happen.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

So your telling the the NTA would rather a bus was late or worse still doesn't operate at all over letting DB take an extra out of the depot.

What you take about is not a extra bus.
It is a replacement for a bus that broke down.

A extra bus is one that would be put on to provide EXTRA capacity for the likes of a concert/match. In other words the 4/7 routes can cope with normal loading , but when a concert/match is on at landsdown road, DB cannot put on a EXTRA bus to help without the permission of the NTA.
This permission must be applied for well in advance, and is not always given.
Now when we have a surprise increase in demand, like when the DART goes down, DB are not allowed to put on extra 4/7 route buses to carry the extra loading, EXTRA buses need the permission of The NTA, which must be applied for in advance.

In pre NTA days. the DART would go down, DB would put on EXTRA buses shortly after being notified that the DART was down to carry the increased loading, today they cannot.
Do you understand now?
(any DB drivers want to correct me go ahead)

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

If DB decided to put on special buses like the ones for they do for The Slane Castle concerts they could run a special bus to say Marley Park and charge more for it taking buses off the regular service and putting them on a route which is more profitable as they can charge more for it. Which would probably annoy passengers even more.

No regular services are disrupted by these "special" buses , Slane and the likes are covered by OT rest day work.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

They won with dodgy tactics and the result screwed the customer. Delightful attitude.

No customers = no DB. The company, management and staff alike need to realise that nothing else matters more than them - yet they're treated as an inconvenience

DB will always exist in some shape or form, no if and or buts about it.
Who else will carry all the FTP holders?

bebeman

thomasj wrote: »

Recent example I can give of dbs commercial operation, the nitelink.

3 Fridays ago, despite the fact that 39n , 70n and 66n we're running as full to the brim VTs., There were no additional buses put on.

There were at least 40 people waiting on the 39n at 00.20 in the cold, the bus was parked there at that time but they couldn't get on until 1am. The 1am 39n I was on left with over 100 passengers on board, standing right up to the door.

The midnight 39n I was trying to catch, pulled out at 23.59 , the inspector told me there was 106 passengers on board.

Your point is?
DB are not allowed to put on extra buses that are not timetabled without the permission of the NTA.
In your opinion who is at fault here, DB or The NTA?

bebeman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

DCC have just as much blame to be apportioned to them. Should have closed much of the area to private vehicle but they let various interests dictate their policy for them and private vehicle remain, clogging up the entire city centre.

Dont know if true, but have heard the Taxi lobby have a injunction to prevent the council banning them from college green.

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

DB will always exist in some shape or form, no if and or buts about it.
Who else will carry all the FTP holders?

The PSO contractor will. Which won't be DB if they don't cop on - at all levels

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

The PSO contractor will. Which won't be DB if they don't cop on - at all levels

Do you think a private bus PSO contractor would put up with a tenth of the political interference DB have to endure?
Politicians wont be giving up any influence they have, DB are here to stay in one way or another.